MORE PIZZA EXPERIMENTS

SmokinGuitarPlayer · February 2011

As some of you know, I'm working on a Pizza Dough kit so I've been experimenting a LOT with flours , etc. etc. Here's today's pies. I'm "going for" pies similar to Patsy's in Harlem lately... Pie #1 has the cheese on the bottom, Pie # 2 same exact pie but cheese on the top. Both have hand-crushed Alta Cucina plum tomatoes.. and I smeared some Bacio "Kiss of Garlic" spread on each before saucing / etc.
Both pies 50/50 blend of Caputo Pizzeria and Caputo Rinforzata flour, 60% hydration, baked at 750 ish degrees in 2 minutes aprox.

This dough was made earlier today so it's less than one day old..i made 12 doughballs today so I'll be baking 2 pies each day and we can see how the dough matures and bakes differently. I will post them on our websites forum everyday and if I have time, post them here also so everybody can see what happens as the dough matures.
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Rick in Crystal Lake · February 2011

Go Fred, go. I have yet to try a pizza on the egg but you are giving me the "fever". I will be giving you a call to see if you have "pineapple head" back in stock. You were out in Nov.
Rick
CL, IL

benny · February 2011

like that crust...the last pictures look tastier than the one with sauce on time. what was the vote on taste?

SmokinGuitarPlayer · February 2011

OK..taste ..well I should mention Sargento mozz was used...the "fresh" style balls .. sliced up etc. I tasted some before putting on the pies and it is flavorless in my opinion, tomorrow I'm trying another brand...that being said...

with the tomato on top, you could REALLY taste the tomato ..almost tastes like fresh tomato and very acidy tasting ...which I like ... but you could not taste the cheese at all ...

Most of the staff liked the cheese on top pie better but ny vite was for the tomato on top pie ... (which is how Patsy's does it)

Only other seasoning was the garlic spread , very light, on the bottom and a little of our Italian seasoning on top with some EVOO ...

If I can , I'll post here but for sure, everyday I'll put pics on our website's forum it's just way easier to do it there ... see you tomorrow.
FB/SGP

SmokinGuitarPlayer · February 2011

We ALWAYS have all the dizzy stuff in stock ..you must've caught us "between" stocking orders ... anyway ..we have plenty of all of them now.
FB/SGP

Fidel · February 2011

cheese on top gets my vote, and might I add that is one damn fine looking pizza pie.

My hat's off to you.

icemncmth · February 2011

Ahh Grasshopper...

The funny thing is that I have been making pizzas for a very long time and that was the reason I bought my first egg.

I can tell you that you have hit on something that most people don't truly understand and that is moisture really does change the way a pizza looks and tastes.

I run my hydration at 62% but I autolyze around 20 mins on 50% of my dough. I like my pizza to have a little chew to it.

When people ask me how to make pizzas I ask them what they like.

You are traveling down a road that most people don't.
To find out what you really like is to actually play with not only the dough but how you stack your pizza.

I do things that most don't do. I take my fresh motz and take it out of the water it is in and set it on a plate in the fridge for a few days to dry some that way it when cooking the moisture doesn't leak out onto my pie. I nuke my pepperoni in the microwave for 30 sec to cook out some of the fat. I will salt some of my vegi's to draw out some of the moisture and I do all of this because I don't want a soggy pizza.

I do as much as I can to keep the moisture in the toppings an not on the pie and it looks like you have seen what just a simple thing as putting the cheese on first does to a pizza.

Simple things when making a pizza can change it drastically.

Keep up the great work because I always enjoy another pizza fanatics post!!!

loco_engr · February 2011

Are you making pizzas at OKC this year?

icemncmth · February 2011

I think I will..I didn't last year because there were too many people making pizzas, it was the "in" thing.

Mickey · February 2011

As to looks: the cheese on top wins for me...

BigBadger · February 2011

Nice looking pies. It's also nice to see someone passionately delving into their chosen interest so deeply. Good luck on your winning recipe kit!

Woodbutcher · February 2011

They do look tasty Fred! I'll be checking your site to see the outcome.

BobS · February 2011

Fred,

Those look good. I hope there are more than two cooked on Saturday. What time do I have to get there to try some?

I guess it is not at all traditional, but I like a 3-cheese mix with mozzarella, aged provolone and sharp white cheddar. I buy deli mozzarella and provolone and grate it myself.

I have been using the Caputo 00, but need to pick some of the other to give the blend a try.

I had better luck with 70% hydration (vs 60%) on my last batch and like icemnth,I like the autolyze technique.

Ice, I have been doing my aytolyze for 20 min on 75% of my dough. Do you think it makes a significant difference to go for 50%?

SmokinGuitarPlayer · February 2011

yes yes and yes.

Tomorrow , since I have the dough aging right now, I will first go on a mozz quest for something more tasty ..I really like the Grande products so I'll probably chase some of that ... also , those pies are supposed to have a sprinkle of Parmagiano Reggiano on them but the staff ate all the grated cheeses out of our fridge last week while I was away ... so tomorrow's pies will have aged dough and maybe better toppings ...

re: your comment on drying toppings ... I learned from Gemigniani to dry the fresh mozz, especially buffalo, before using ...he does it between paper towels .. this Sargento brand wasn't watery at all ..just didn't have much flavor. All that being said, I'm still mostly focusing on the crust ...and an easy way to make really great crust without the fancy stuff ... I've been down many roads, autolyse, sponges, preferments, etc. but I'm trying to make an easy system of ingredients and technique to make great crusts each time. I think I'm on to it now ... stay tuned and thanks for the great comments

SmokinGuitarPlayer · February 2011

bob ...if you are coming for sure on Saturday let me know and if possible we'll make some pies ... depends on if we can dig out the WFO and the Eggs ...if it's bad weather they stay in the garage and we cook on the porch with the pellet grills and they don't work so good for pizza ... I do have a very nifty Italian Electric pizza oven for inside use I could dig out .. anyway .. let me know if you're coming and there will be pizza.

Hydration: Tony Gemigniani uses 58 to 59% for all his different pies and doughs and when I visited him recently (Have you seen the cool additions he made to his place? Coal oven .. etc. !) he really stressed that that percentage is fine for most ovens etc. Also .. he advised me when I toook his class last year that the Pizzeria Caputo is the best stuff to use ...it's only available in 25kg (55lb) bags but as you know, we now rebag in our commercial kitchen and sell 5lb bags ...I am amazed at how many of them we ship.

Another thing ... for long / cold ferment doughs his advice was to add in the Rinforzata caputo ..it took me a while to track that down but we now have that..again ... comes in 25kg sacks but we're now repacking that stuff ...

to that's what I have been using ... 50/50 of the 2 Caputo flours. ... adding olive oil or sugar as needed for browning at lower oven temps etc. ..

OK... sorry for the long post .. I get carried away with this stuff.

FB/SGP

Judy Mayberry · February 2011

Fred:

Is the rinforzata flour a high-gluten flour that can be substituted for by a King Arthur high-gluten flour?

I vote for the sauce on top. I like your description of a tangy topping. I've given up on fresh mozzarella, either bufala or cow's milk, because they all taste like...nothing. Even the driest ones. I'm ready to go back to the supermarket ball!

Judy in San Diego

Judy Mayberry · February 2011

I can't find anything on your own website about this last posting. Where should I look? It's not in Videos.

Judy

Judy Mayberry · February 2011

OK, me stupid, it was on your FORUM, just like you said.

Judy

Cagey · February 2011

Can you give us the mixture for the dough. I for one do not know how to mix to or measure 60% hydration. Thanks.

SmokinGuitarPlayer · February 2011

Judy ,, some of the mozz is better ... you just have to find what you like ..I'm on that quest also ... a little sea salt on the pizza works ...

Yes, the Caputo Rinforzata is hi gluten. I am adding it to the mix at the advice of Tony Gemigniani for longer, cold ferment. I'm really liking this combination of flour ...

I'll be posting pics daily on my store's forum with detailed evaluation of the crust as the dough matures ..

FB/SGP

SmokinGuitarPlayer · February 2011

it's a red button on the homepage ... says "forum" on it I think.
FB/SGP...

If you email me I can send you a link.

SmokinGuitarPlayer · February 2011

cagey, 60% hydration means if you have 1000 grams of flour, you USE 600 grams of water (60%) etc. etc.

The exact recipe and method is posted on our store's website on the "recipes and cooking" area ... I think it's the 3rd or 4th item down...

also, I am shooting video for the entire process... ingredients to baking ... should have that in the next week or 2 posted. I'll post it on our website and our forum when it's ready ... should be on youtube also.

I have good vids showing making the pies / etc. etc. everything except the dough making so this will complete the set. Some good eggin pizza vids there also.

FB/SGP

Judy Mayberry · February 2011

I have to second that. I watched the shaping videos over and over before my last batch of pizzas and it was good training!

icemncmth · February 2011

I know...I have a "go to" dough that I use that is easy. I make it in the morning and let it sit out all day till I need it in the evening. I don't do anything fancy with it but I do use one of my SD starters. Gives it that long fermentation taste.

SmokinGuitarPlayer · February 2011

Yes, I haven't messed with the sourdough starters yet ..even though I did get the kits and have them sittiing here ... I've just been trying to get a great , consistent dough without using any prefermented stuff ... Gemigniani uses a biga which I think is basically his leftover doughballs from one day put in the next batch of dough but he stressed that in Italy, they don't use any of that stuff ..when he won that competition you only used dry or cake yeast so I've been sticking to the basics.... more pies today ..I'm going in search of mozz now. FB/SGP

phar71 · February 2011

I assume you have seen this before, but just in case...
http://www.varasanos.com/PizzaRecipe.htm

SmokinGuitarPlayer · February 2011

Yes, a lot of us pizza guys have been reading Jeff's blog etc. for years and following the fun..AND of course trying out all the techniques and recipes ... I plan to visit his restaurant the next time down there he's getting a very good reputation in the pizza world.
FB/SGP

If you want to REALLY get into the dough making there is a forum called pizzamaking.com that is for the very serious people :ohmy:

Lobicho · February 2011

OMG
OMG
OMG
OMG
share with us your secret
those are some tasty pizza

SmokinGuitarPlayer · February 2011

No secrets ..recipe is on my website and I hope to have a video out very soon on the dough making ...the rest of the pizza making videos are on the website already.
FB/SGP

Mr Holloway · February 2011

Great post Fred
Still working on my crust
Getting a lot closer with your help

Shane

phar71 · February 2011

The Za's are indeed very tasty, but your look mighty fine as well.

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