Brisket Theory

Pakak

I don’t get it. I’ve tried to do a brisket three different times with similar results each time – shoe leather. At least I’m getting a little more tender shoe leather each time, but I’m starting to think tender brisket is a myth.[p]Yes, I’ve gone back through the archives and looked at descriptions of various techniques. I’ve also looked at the 2003 cookbook. I watched the BBQ series on the Food Network around the 4th too!! I don’t know what I’m doing wrong.[p]What makes a tough cut of meat tender? I would think the fat cap “melting” through the meat in the cooking process would help achieve tenderness, yet some people want all fat trimmed. I’ve always had a sizable fat cap attached, to no avail.[p]I’m also cooking it very slow (upper dome temp ~ 225 – 250) with the indirect method. I’ve tried various internal temps from 195 (way too done) to 165 (better, yet still tough). Last time I tried one, I basted with beer, thinking this would add some moisture. It was slightly better, but not much.[p]One thing I haven’t tried is wrapping the brisket in foil after removing from the grill. Does that really affect tenderness at all? Also, I’ve never marinated, only used dry rubs. What else can I do? Sheesh.[p]Thanks ... Mark

The Other Dave

Pakak, The other day I cooked a ribeye streak using T-Rex's method. Tough as nails. Ended up using it in stew and even then after hours of stewing it was somewhat tough. I think sometimes we get a tough cow and that's that. Regarding brisket, I have yet to be defeated using the very method you discribe. Have you calibrated your thermometer?

Car Wash Mike

<p />Pakak,
I use a 10 lb whole of 7-8 lb. flat. Need to leave the fat cap on if possible, if not line with bacon. Apply your favorite rub and then sugar. Place in an air tight container and leave in fridge overnight. Sugar will be gone in the morning.
Cook indirect at 225-250 for 2 1/2 hours. Then take brisket off, let temp on egg get down to 190 and then place thick cut sweet onions on top of brisket then double wrap brisket in aluminum foil.
Cook another 2 hours indirect and then slice or go a little longer and pull.
Not conventional and not popular but tasty.[p]CWM

Car Wash Mike

Pakak,
Should have said 10 lb. whole OR a nice size flat of 7-8 lbs.[p]CWM

Unknown

Pakak,[p]I just recently starting foiling and I like the results much better.[p]Keep 1/4 inch fat cap on the brisket and start it fatside DOWN. Flip it fatside UP after four hours or so. When the temp is 170 in the flat, foil the brisket and lay it on the grate, fatside UP. [p]Start poking around with a fork or a probe around 190-195. Every brisket is different, but the fork should slide in like butter.[p]Take the brisket off and let it rest in foil at least one hour.[p]I cooked the best brisket of my life that way this weekend, with my favorite sauce (Smoky Texas BBQ sauce from Paul Kirk's book, with a few variations). Too bad the judges didn't see it as the 180 _I_ did! :-)[p]Good luck![p]Lee

Pakak

No, I haven't tried anything like your technique though in many ways it makes more sense. Why? Because by having the onions wrapped up in the foil with the brisket there is more moisture - from the meat AND the onions. It seems to me this would cause the meat to be more moist. Why then do people get good results from "conventional" methods?

Pakak

I agree with the tough cow idea. I'd thought of that myself. I've been on a quest looking for FRESH brisket, not prepackaged and pumped full of saltwater. I notice on another thread where some people have had good success with the packaged brisket, so that sorta blows my theory out of the water.[p]BTW - I finally found a fresh brisket only to get it home and find it has virtually NO fat cap. I guess I'm going to have to wrap it with bacon or something. LOL

Unknown

Pakak,
I am new to the egg, but have smoked several on my smoker. I cook mine fat side up at no more than 225 degrees(indirect)for about 4 hours. Then I wrap it in foil,and continue to cook it for at least 10 more hours. If I dont have that amount of time, wrap it tight in foil, place it in a pan, and cook in oven for 12 hours at 225 degrees. Your brisket may be tough due to under cooking. I will let you know my results on the egg. I have only had I 2 days and will smoke brisket this weekend. Good luck

Pakak

Ok, just a couple comments/questions:[p]1) Why do you start it with the cap down? Every brisket I've done so far has been too tough. My thinking is - I want to have as much fat going into the meat as possible.[p]2) At 190-195 my briskets have (or would be) overdone. Slide in like butter? hehehe

Car Wash Mike

Pakak,
I'm batting .333 on the conventional method. As some will tell you the chuck o chest has a different attitude. It is the hardest cut of meat to cook on a constant basis.
Good luck on what ever you try but foiling is in the cards.[p]CWM

Pakak

Oops - I forgot to answer your question about my thermometer. Yes, I have done this recently. It was fine.[p]I'm using a Polder. Which raises another question ... On the Polder, "Well Done" for beef is shown as a temp of 170, but we're cooking brisket to 190 to 195? I don't understand.

Pakak

Thanks Terry. This is same concept as Car Wash Mike's technique, but he adds onions too. I might have to break down and try wrapping in foil while cooking *especially* since my latest purchase has virtually no fat cap.

The Other Dave

Pakak, The higher temp for the long duaration cook is for "melting" the collogen. Brisket is very high in this which is both good and bad. Good because it is really collects the rich flavor of brisket, but bad because it has to be dissolved at relatively high temps for a long time. BTW, I also foil my brisket in order to collect the magnificent jus. <aybe that is the most signifcant difference!

TRex

<p />Pakak,[p]Are you buying Choice or Select briskets? Are the briskets you're buying very flexible?[p]I did my first brisket two weekends ago. It was Choice, and the butcher showed me that it was a "good one" because he could bend it all the way over on itself. He told me that flexibility is a good sign - avoid stiff briskets.[p]I cooked mine to 200 internal, rested for 45 minutes on a plate, not in foil. It was very tender, to my surprise (I'm used to tough, stringy brisket), and juicy most of the way through (a little tough on the ends).[p]But what people have been saying below is true: sometimes you get a bad cow. Even with steaks, I've gotten some that haven't made the cut for me, regardless of method. Which takes me back to my first big lesson learned when cooking beef: 98% of your final product depends on the meat you start with.[p]I wish you better luck in the future![p]TRex[p]

TRex

I meant to say a little DRY on the ends - it was tender throughout. : )

Unknown

Pakak,[p]Because when I was cooking it fat-side up, the meat-side got too much of a dried out top layer on it. This does not happen when I lay it on the fat for the first four - six hours.[p]When the brisket is too tough, it usually means it's not cooked long enough, contrary to other meats. At 190-195, it should be almost as tender as pot roast.[p]Lee

Pakak

I agree that the quality of the meat you start with really is the MOST important thing. I generally have a pretty good eye when it comes to steaks and other cuts but have not been very successful when selecting brisket. Until this latest brisket, I've been unable to find "fresh" from the butcher. Everything has been prepackaged with water and sodium added. Now, I finally found one, but it has no fat cap. Oh well, it appears to have better marbleing than I've seen in the past.

TRex

Pakak,[p]I wonder if, in lieu of a fat cap, you could just layer bacon on top of the brisket?? I wonder if anyone has ever done this . . .[p]TRex

Pakak

Yes, someone else mentioned using bacon and I read it somewhere else too. That's what I'm going to try.

TRex

Duh, that's what I get for not reading all of the previous posts - I see that Car Wash Mike already suggested the bacon thing.

Smokin' Todd

<p />Pakak,[p]165* is certainly not brisket. Lean towards 190*+. And as was mentioned different grades of brisket just may be the problem.[p]ST

mollyshark

Pakak,[p]Howdy, man. Good to see you here. I always shoot for 195 degrees and then do the foil and beach towel wrap and stick it in my warming drawer for about 45 minutes. There is a distinct difference between the meat that goes into the drawer and comes out. Have done temp a little higher wtih no ill effects, but 165 won't break down the fibers like you want.[p]For your trimmed brisket, you can probably get a big blob of fat from the meat people at the grocery. They ask them for some. I've never tried the bacon, but I can't see it holding up throught that much cooking time. I'd rather slather on a fat cap even if I have to take it off following cooking.[p]Send me an e if there is anything I can do. Gonna be taking a break for a couple days and putting a fat cap on myself and sitting on the beach, but will be back end of week. [p]Don't give up![p]mShark[p]

Nature Boy

Pakak,
No proof on this, but wouldn't the fat layer on the bottom act as sort of a seal on the bottom to prevent the fat from dripping out of the actual meat? You can look at it a couple of ways. Also, you can always have your butcher cut you some slabs of fat to lay on top of the nekked side.[p]Just thinkin.
Chris

Pakak

I had a brainstorm this morning ... I think I'm going to try some salt pork for the fat. I can slice it any thickness I want and it's lots cheaper than bacon. Besides, using a good bacon seems a waste since the flavor, I think, would be lost in the flavor of the smoke and rub. [p]I got up early this morning and have it on. I'm also going to try wrapping in foil for the last part of the cooking period, probably with the onions. I'm going for broke this time. LOL

Nessmuk

Smokin' Todd,
Looks like a perfect 9 according to my judging standards.[p]