Chicken stock flavor?

Grandpas Grub

On a post some time ago I read someone saying to not toss the bones and left overs from their chicken cook.

I egged 3 whole medium to large chickens and then pulled the meat for dinner.

I saved all the bones, after the cook and put them in a pan of water (about 4 to 6 qts). I cooked on the stove at a simmer to light boil.

The stock still had some 'water' taste. I put in some salt and a little pepper to kick up the taste a little.

The flavor enhanced but still was a little lacking.

Should I even be using the bones etc from that cooked chicken to make stock?

How much water should be used?

What level of taste should it be boiled to?

Kent

fishlessman

i cook the bones, more flavor if you start with cold water and bring it to a low simmer slowly. i add veggies at this time too, an onion or two quartered, some celery, some carrots, even carrot tops. all this gets strained out and tossed before you make the soup

BigDaddy - OCT

Without adding bullioin, you could continue simmering/boiling until it reduces more and the flavor is more concentrated.

Bruce

Katodude00

The light boil might be your problem. With too much of a boil the bones can lock up and not release the flavor. You want to go for a light simmer. Think of it as the low and slo for stock.

Also adding the vegetables will help too. Add some fresh parley also..

Little Steven

Grandpa's Grub

I usually roast the bones in the oven or egg for about 40 minutes until good and brown. The onions carrots and celery get roasted too. When the bones and mirepoix are good and dark put them in a pot and add cold water to cover. A good poultry stock should go for six or seven hours on a simmer.

Steve

Grandpas Grub

Thanks all.

Maybe that is what is missing, no veggies. The stock is still light and there was not much reduction.

I think I will give it a try again the next time I cook some chicken.

Kent

lowercasebill

i often crush up the bones a bit and freeze till i am ready to make stock, takes less room in the freezer. regardless in you are making stock you need to simmer for a long time to get the collegen out [so it is like jello when cold.] use salt and a bit of acid [juice of half a lemon] certainly you need celery, carrot and onion, [i use sweet like vidalia] and 1 clove of garlic sometimes. for traditional eastern european jewish style you need parsley parsnip and turnip and dill [i use a fresh market pack][this from years of asking friends and their mothers for 'grandmom's recipe]. if i am only using bonesand not a whole chicken i add several spoonfuls of penzeys chicken stock paste or use a quart each of wegmans chicken stock and vegetable stock. strain and disgard all the solids. i can go on about soup but this is about stock. as far as time we are talking hours 2 minimum.

Grandpas Grub

Bill,

If buying chicken stock, why bother using chicken the leftover chicken pieces/bones etc.?

I have read to use the whole chicken to make the stock then use the meat for the soup. I would think by the time the stock is complete the meat wouldn't have much flavor.

My goal was to have nice tasting stock, then some egged smoked chicken pieces to make chicken noodle soup, or pot pie, or chicken & dumplings - just some nice comfort food.

Kent

Broc

I save chicken bones, and not worry about cleaning them too much -- Stick 'em in the freezer until ready to make stock. I often put some turkey wingtips or whatever poultry parts I have to the mix... bones... that's the key.

Roast the bones @400F for 40 minutes, then crack 'em open, exposing the marrow of the long bones.

Dump into a big pot, getting all the tasty burned spots off the roasting pan and into the pot.

I add mirepoix [explained in another post] and anything left over-getting-old in the fridge -- Turnips, parsnips, cabbage -- whatever! Chop 'em into big pieces... don't worry about greens-'n-tops-'n-cruddy stuff, since you'll be straining this after the 8 hour [all night] simmer.

Also, I salt and epper, plus whatever other seasonings you wish -- handdful of [fresh] rosemary, sage, thyme... a small handful of peppercorns... whatever floats your boat.

Add cold water to cover what's in the pot by about an inch.

Slowly bring the pot to a boil, then immediately lower temps to a bare simmer... and walk away. The only reason you check back is to add water when necessary to keep the pot covered with water.

The idea is to simmer all of this until all the bones get rubbery and bendy. You want to break down the collagen in the bones, get all the marrow into the liquid.

After about 8 hours, you're there. Strain the liquid from the solids. Squeeze all the mushy stuff [carrots, rutabaga, etc] to get all those wonderful, tasty juices out [everything will taste the same by then, as all the flavor is now in the juice]

Throw out all the solids. Quickly chill the liquid. The fat will rise to the top... skim it off.

Now -- You have chicken stock that you cannot buy -- anywhere. You've got liquid Gold -- Absolutel Heavenly Taste!

From this, you can make soups, gravies... Yada-yada...

I have some high quality freezing containers [about 1 cup each] that I pour the stuff into, and freeze. When I need some stock, I take one-na these outta the freezer [or two, whatever volume I need], and the rest stay awaiting their turn.

=======

Simple gravy --

Heat some stock -- not to a boil.

Mix equal volumes of flour and soft butter, to make a paste -- This is called a Roux. Heat [think of fry] the roux in a separate pan and cook extra moisture out of it, and cook the raw flour taste out of it. This will end up beginning to brown, as a very thick paste.

Add a dollop of the roux to the hot chicken stock, and bring the stock to a low boil. After the stock come to a slight boil, check the thickness of the gravy. [Dip the backside of a serving spoon in the gravy -- Can you draw your finger across it and leave a distinct "dry" mark?]

If not thick enough, add another dollup of roux... cook a minute at a low boil, and do the spoon test again.

Repeat as necessary...

Season the gravy to taste... I like lots of freshly cracked pepper.... Yeeeaaaaah!

The gravy is ready to serve when thick enough -- Don't try to hold this gravy for a long time. Prepare it just as you're ready to serve.

In December, I made gravy for 150 people...

There are many variations on this basic gravy, involving whole milk, {i use heavy cream], cheese... all sorts of things...

Ciao!

~ Broc

gdenby

Call me modern. I have a pressure cooker. I don't boil gallons of water anymore.

I Egg a chicken, and any meat left from the meal gets cut off and saved seperate. I saute some onion, maybe a little garlic and a slice or two of ginger in the cooker. With a pressure cooker, the water doesn't need to be boiled away, and risk loosing flavor. Put just a quart in with carcass, veggies and other spices. 30 minutes later, out will come rich and wonderfully flavorful stock. Well, actually, something that will turn to gel when refigerated.

If you add some vinegar at the start, or part way thru, a lot of calcium will go into the stock, leaving bones that are bendable. This is really nutritious, but it will make the stock cloudy.

When I make the soup, I add the reserved chicken. If the chicken is boiled or pressure cooked before, it probably has some nutrition left, but flavor, no.


gdenby

Broc

See my post above --

When using whole chicken to make stock -- debone the meat, set it aside [chilled]

Roast the bones [I add wings, necks are great, etc... to get a lot of bone for the stock]

When you bring the pot to a boil, add the meat to the entire operation. Remove the meat at roughly the one hour point, and use this flavorful meat as you wish.

Then continue the stock-making procedure another seven hours.

~ B

Little Steven

Grandpas Grub,

You can do a white chicen stock with raw or cooked bones. Remember a stock is not a broth. Stocks can be used for soups with another flavouring ingredient, you can use them in place of water for many things such as risotto, vegetables and as a basis for soups. For a soup that calls for stock, you need another flavouring ingredient like asparagus, leeks etc. You can reduce them for demi glace but you will not get the same flavour as broth, which is made from bones and trim, more meat than bones. That doesn't mean that the stock isn't a great ingredient, just thst you use it for what it is good for.

Steve

Unknown

kent
basically i egg a whole oven stuffer roaster and we have 1 meal from it and then it goes into the pot. i have been known to roast a chicken, take it right off the egg and into the pot. my feeling is the stock cannot be too rich. if the stock is rich it flavors the chicken or...the flavor is not lost. basically i do not make chicken soup, rather ...roast chicken soup. i think of store bought stock as the start not the end. the other thing i did was to go to the local store buy some of all the available stocks and do a blind taste taste.

Broc

Howdy!

I did the blind chicken stock taste test for friends and family sometime last summer. The responses yurned out like this --

100% -- Home made stock... Yum!
100% -- Store boucht stock... Bleh!

And that's using major brands!

~ B

Grandpas Grub

Broc,

How much stock did you need for the party?

From your discription I need to simmer down my stock a lot more.

Kent

Grandpas Grub

Looks like I need to do some testing with all this.

I have some nice pressure cookers but haven't used them in years.

Kent

Grandpas Grub

The jewish style sounds good.

Looks like I need to do more research on all this. I make a good beef stew, split pea & ham, and ham and bean soup. The egg made all those much better.

But not too swift on thinner type soups, just never tried to cook them.

Kent

Grandpas Grub

Little Steven,

I am a little at a loss with broth and didn't realize there is a difference.

I egged 3 whole chickens. Trimmed off most of the meat and had dinner. After dinner I the bones & wing tips, a small amount of skin and whatever meat was still on the bones into a pot. I don't remember how cold water I put in the pan I guess 4 to 6 quarts.

I brought to a boil then down to a light boil (simmer - very small amount of boiling). This went on for 3 to 4 hours.

I then strained and that is what I now have.

From your explanation I am thinking I have somewhat some stock (no vegies).

If I took a whole chicken and simmered that and some vegies, then that would end up as a broth? The meat being the difference.

Kent

Little Steven

Grandpas Grub,

Both stocks and broths are made with bones and trim. Stocks have more bone than trim or meat. A broth is made with more meat than bone. Mirepoix, onion, carrot and celery are used in a ratio of 2-1-1 respectively.
The flavour of either will be a product of how much solid you have compared to liquid and the time that they simmer. In addition to this there are white and dark stocks that are unroasted meat and mirepoix and roasted meat and mirepoix repective. I have no training in this stuff but cooking in general is a passion to me. I have the CIA (Culinary Institute of America)text book and read it all the time. It is a pricey book but worth every penny as it explains and defines everything to do with culinary arts.
If you want to use stock for soup you can add a low salt commercial broth and reduce the volume by half to get the flavour you want.

Steve