Mission impossible - Bark

Florida Grillin Girl

@georgia boy - the BGE retains moisture so well, no added liquid is needed.

nolaegghead

georgia boy said:

I continue to wonder about the drip pan with no water suggestions.

What's the theory / logic behind using a drip pan, but not putting water in it?  Aaron Franklin recommends 250F with a pan of water.  He argues that the increased humidity is necessary for the smoke compounds to adhere to the meat (and thus taste more smoky).  I'm not saying he knows everything, and obviously an offset is different from an egg, but seems like it wouldn't hurt to add water.

Previous to reading his book, I never used a drip pan at all.  I've tried using the drip pan with water, but not systematic enough to really come to a conclusion.

So, my questions, @Tbonez3858 , @Theophan , @saluki2007 , @DoubleEgger , @Carolina Q , or really anyone else that cares to answer (just directing at those that have said they use water in this thread)

a) why no water in the drip pan?  particularly given the theory that smoke needs the humidity to adhere
b) if no water, then why use a drip pan at all?  if it's dry, the fat will just burn in the drip pan.  other than maybe ease of cleaning, is there any reason specific to the cook of the meat?

Thanks,

Try to dry jerky in an egg.  Takes FOREVER.  Because it's humid.  You put water in your pan if you're trying to slow down a cook, or the bottom from cooking as fast as the top.  Otherwise it's a wasted effort.

lousubcap

The other thing with the water pan is the heat sink properties.  The water uses BTU's to heat up during the cook thus you have a larger fire than without one.  As long as the pan retains liquid this is not a big deal but if the pan empties then your BGE temp will climb and settle out at a higher temp.
And regarding the air-gapped drip pan, make sure that if you foil the inside of the pan you have good channeling to ensure the drippings end up in the pan.
A few brisket cooks ago, I saw the dome temp decide to take quite a hike in the upward direction after many hours just running along.  Turns out I had brisket renderings finding their way to the fire.  Had to pull everything out of the BGE, toss in some ice cubes to down the fire and then get back to the cook.  Lesson learned. FWIW-

nolaegghead

Lou, you might have had some weird problem with your fire.  If you're running a low and slow with very low air flow, the amount of air determines the amount of fire.  Be it fat or lump or wood chips or chunks, the amount of fire should be very small because it's regulated by the amount of oxygen flowing into the system.  So it should be impossible to get a raging fat fire unless you're letting in a lot of air, and that can happen if you have wet lump or something where not all the O2 is being burned and your adjusted temp is based on a lot of bleed O2 (through the stack)*.

O2 + CxHx (hydrocarbons) = Heat + H2O + COx

O2 being the limiting reagent, normally.

* this does normally happen, but the temp diff shouldn't be too great, maybe 10F assuming the fat is more effective at using all the extra O2

henapple

Or.... As a scientist, do whatever the f you want to do 

SmokingPiney

Eggs keep the cook environment moist - no need for water pans.

As far as bark goes, I've never had a problem getting it - I don't wrap. 

For butts it's 275 from start to finish, no wrap, no water pan (I do use a drip pan to catch the drippings). No problems getting a good bark. 

lousubcap

@nolaegghead - I am in complete agreement with your logic but I'm guessing the grease fire was providing more BTU's per measured quantity of fire based material than the lump.   All's well that ends well but it made for a few minutes of entertainment.  First time I have had that happen-no issues since.
Thanks for the input.

nolaegghead

lousubcap said:

@nolaegghead - I am in complete agreement with your logic but I'm guessing the grease fire was providing more BTU's per measured quantity of fire based material than the lump.   All's well that ends well but it made for a few minutes of entertainment.  First time I have had that happen-no issues since.
Thanks for the input.

Sure. It's like Schrodinger's cat with quantum mechanics until you open it, then flood it with air, and lo and behold a raging fat fire.  Who knows what's really happening unless that temp gauge starts a Northward rise.

lousubcap

BTW- the northward rise was the indicator after around 8+ hours of stability.  A WTF moment.

nolaegghead

Believe me, I've had the same thing happen and I could only conclude the lump was only burning a fraction of the air and that was some weird phenomenon related to humidity or somefin.

lousubcap

Apologize for the thread hi-jack.  

JRWhitee

@DoubleEgger I couldn't have said it better myself.

DoubleEgger

JRWhitee said:

@DoubleEgger I couldn't have said it better myself.

Thank you sir. 

georgia boy

Ok, now I'm following.  But, how do you raise the drip pan off the platesetter?

DoubleEgger

georgia boy said:

Ok, now I'm following.  But, how do you raise the drip pan off the platesetter?

A couple of pieces of folded aluminum foil. Copper pipe elbows. Quarters etc. 

blasting

georgia boy said:

Ok, now I'm following.  But, how do you raise the drip pan off the platesetter?

Copper plumbing elbows, kiln spacers, even balls of foil work fine.

SciAggie

georgia boy said:

I continue to wonder about the drip pan with no water suggestions.

What's the theory / logic behind using a drip pan, but not putting water in it?  Aaron Franklin recommends 250F with a pan of water.  He argues that the increased humidity is necessary for the smoke compounds to adhere to the meat (and thus taste more smoky).  I'm not saying he knows everything, and obviously an offset is different from an egg, but seems like it wouldn't hurt to add water.

Previous to reading his book, I never used a drip pan at all.  I've tried using the drip pan with water, but not systematic enough to really come to a conclusion.

So, my questions, @Tbonez3858 , @Theophan , @saluki2007 , @DoubleEgger , @Carolina Q , or really anyone else that cares to answer (just directing at those that have said they use water in this thread)

a) why no water in the drip pan?  particularly given the theory that smoke needs the humidity to adhere
b) if no water, then why use a drip pan at all?  if it's dry, the fat will just burn in the drip pan.  other than maybe ease of cleaning, is there any reason specific to the cook of the meat?

Thanks,

I'll throw in my two cent opinion. When I cook in my offset (that's borrowed) I add a huge aluminum pan full of water. It acts as a heat sink to stabilize and lower temperature as well as adding humidity into the cooker. I can't make good Q without it. 
I never add water in the egg because it is a high moisture enviroment to begin with. I do add a pan under high fat cooks like pork butt and brisket. I elevate the pan over the plate setter with foil or something - that keeps the grease from burning. I do this for the sole reason of keeping the egg clean. 

tjv

Open the daisy wheel more, allowing the moisture to escape during the cook. You need to move the moisture out of the egg.  Reduce the moisture in the egg and you'll get more bark.  Ceramics and insulated cookers are opposite to most other cookers.  Ceramics and insulated do a great job holding moisture, pellets, stick and thin box - not so much. 
  
No water in the pan.  Pan's basic job is to catch the dripping so you don't have to hassle with the mess on the next cook.  

I need to think about it more, but I never associated sugar with bark. Almost makes me wonder if to much sugar melts and creates a gooey cover over the meat that prevents the meat's moisture from escaping.  Inquiring minds. 

Try this set-up with xl rig - 17.5 stone, grid and drip pan, see picture below.  The rub on the brisket is dizzy pig's raising the steaks which has no sugar. brisket is in the stall.

The daisy wheel does not have to be wide open, but open enough to move moisture.  You'll need to fiddle with the controller's lower damper to find the right setting between more closed below on slider and more open above with daisy.  For me plunger on fan at slider is 80% or so closed.  

t

Theophan

tjv said:

... I never associated sugar with bark....

I think the biggest thing sugar can do is darken or even blacken bark.  I think it can burn, or at least blacken, at lower temps than most other rub ingredients.