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Bloody Chickien

Grandpas GrubGrandpas Grub Posts: 14,226
edited 8:54PM in EggHead Forum
 
Snickers posted a 'help' question and in the post he talked about pink (bloody)chicken. It has been a while since this link has been posted.

Peter Snyder, Jr., Ph.D.from the Hospitality Institute of Technology and Management wrote this interesting article.

Bloody Chicken

GG

Comments

  • ShedFarmShedFarm Posts: 499
    Thanks for the article - it not only answers my own question, but gives me what I need to counter the "this chicken isn't cooked!" comments I've heard, even when I prove it's thoroughly cooked to safe levels, using my Thermapen.
    BJ (Powhatan, VA)
  • Austin  EggheadAustin Egghead Posts: 3,769
    Thanks for the interesting read. So, I gather an older hen would not produce this phenomena. I have never seen this with any of my cooks, either butt up or down or spacthed.
    This appears a fast food problem. I see an ad campaign for bloody chicken in the future.
    Large, small and mini SW Austin
  • atlpatsatlpats Posts: 102
    Ran into that this evening when I Egged a whole chicken. About an hour into my cook, I inserted the thermometer into the thigh and when I pulled it out it had a considerable amount of blood seepage out of the hole. Also when I cut the bird up I noticed a bit more blood inside than normal. I brined the bird for about 10 hours, and had figured that caused it.
  • BBQ HippieBBQ Hippie Posts: 49
    Thanks for the info. This has happened to me before and my wife won't touch the chicken claiming it's undercooked.
  • Rolling EggRolling Egg Posts: 1,995
    A trick that was shared with me a few years ago about bloody juices or blood colored meat next to the bone, was to always dab the bloody spot with a napkin. If the napkin comes away clean your good. If it comes away red, I'm not eating it. I think this trick mostly applied to red juices next to the bone that usually freaks people out. It works for me.
  • Little ChefLittle Chef Posts: 4,725
    GG... Have you done any research into the source of this information/article? This "Dr" has his PhD in Management. The "Institute" doesn't exist. Chicken....155*???...especially dark meat, yes, is going to be bloody....Bloody unsafe!! You haven't posted this article in a while? Well please wait until I am dead and buried to post it again, because it's BS. I emplore you...PLEASE don't give people excuses to serve their family raw/undercooked chicken! People will get sick, or worse! BAD info here! I have always said...if there's a bit of pink in the thighs/legs/wings....as long as they temp at 165*, they are safe to eat, though likely not the texture one would want. This post/article is just wrong. NO way would this be considered safe, and shame on this 'PhD Manager' turd, to even THINK he is providing good info. MY two cents! I do my best to stay out of food safety issues now, but this totally crossed the line.
    FWIW...The FDA still recommends chicken breasts cooked to 170*, and legs/thighs to 180*. We ALL push the envelope with food temps. (I don't want my chicken breasts at 170*, and I pull my lean pork in the mid 130's, and I still like my burgers pink!) 155* thighs/wings? NOT a chance. This guys is irresponsible.
    And "pasteurized" chicken??? I guess this was a way for him to justify his bad advice. But, there is no such thing as a 'pasteurized' uncooked bird! Makes it sound a lot safer though! But not reality. No disrespect to you GG...you do some great things here for this forum...but PLEASE...put this link in your trash can.
  • bubba timbubba tim Posts: 3,216
    LC sure is pationate about food safety folks! You may want to read her post above..
    SEE YOU IN FLORIDA, March 14th and 15th 2014 http://www.sunshinestateeggfest.com You must master temp, smoke, and time to achive moisture, taste, and texture! Visit www.bubbatim.com for BRISKET HELP
  • ShedFarmShedFarm Posts: 499
    Actually, the "Doctor" has his PhD in Food Science and Technology from the University of Minnesota (http://www.hi-tm.com/Documents/Opsresum.html). It's his company that provides food safety training, management and consulting services.

    I do question his "155 degree thighs" as being safe, though.
    BJ (Powhatan, VA)
  • stikestike Posts: 15,597
    'safe' and palatable are two different things.

    i have no degree or anything, and am only asking the question... so please nobody take this any other way than as a kid raising his arm in school and asking: "what bacteria in chicken is not safe at 155, but is safe in all other foods at 140?"

    guess what i'm saying is that by 'pasteurized' chicken, he's saying that sure, at those temps it is pasteurized (bacteria killed), but people aren't ready for the unsightliness. and the chicken has a wetter, less firm texture.

    i actually prefer overcooked thighs and wings, so i'm not advocating serving those at lower temps. just saying, why is it "unsafe"?

    i will say i find the use of the word "blood" to be odd coming from a PhD. the blood is almost entirely long gone. pink meat is not a result of blood, but myoglobin. close enough and similar to hemoglobin to allow us to be forgiven for calling those juices on our plates 'blood'. but it isn't blood. neither is it blood at the joints. that's the marrow. sure, some vins will have a little blood in them, but it stays there, and cooks. any blood in raw food will be viscous, dark purple, and will cook to black/brown/purple. it is never really watery and runny, even in raw mat. when you express it from something like a not too old whole ham or other large chunk with a joint, it will be red, and slightly thick. but even then there's not much

    at the end of it all, i'd still 'overcook' my wings, thighs, drums, but breast meat is perfect for me when a little pink, maybe 150-155.

    i don't know of a bacteria that is still viable at those temps. i think it's still a safety factor, allowing for poor temperature-taking, and due to the fact that chicken has perhaps more bacteria.
    ed egli avea del cul fatto trombetta -Dante
  • BucketheadBuckethead Posts: 285
    I am with you totally on the temps.... "Sliminella" is NO fun. I have been sick for over a week eating under cooked poultry. I'm with LC all the way on food safety. I noticed that RRP was headed to the NRA show in Chicago. You never know how clean the conditions are at a show like this. NO regulations for food handling or cleaning. Some folks give there stuff a wipe down with a paper towel and start cooking again. I have seen and been part of recalls on under cooked poultry (under 165)the big poultry processors would love to call 150's temps fully cooked for yield gain. There are many on this forum that scoff at changing tongs from the raw state of poulty to finished cook is OK. LC you have been trained well.
    DMo
  • FidelFidel Posts: 10,172
    The good Doctor does appear to be qualified:

    EDUCATION
    University of Denver: B.S. 1948-1952
    Hotel Restaurant Management
    Massachusetts Institute of Technology: M.S. 1957-1959
    Food Science and Nutrition
    University of Massachusetts: Ph.D. 1967-1969
    Food Science and Technology


    The PhD is not in "management" but appears to be Food Science and Technology.

    And the Institute does, seem to exist:

    http://www.hi-tm.com/index.html


    Just wanted to clarify a little. I don't necessarily disagree with your points, but to wrongfully take credibility away from the other side only weakens your argument.
  • fishlessmanfishlessman Posts: 21,238
    i googled it once and found that raw chicken sashimi is actually popular in other countries, i think the french even eat it :laugh:
  • BucketheadBuckethead Posts: 285
    I was always told Campylobacter, was a big factor for reaching the 165 temp. Salmonella another. Now for the myoglobin, different times of the year and the temp outside will determine how quick a bird will bleed out. I have seen in poultry along with beef a rainbow colorization in fully cooked and processed products. Resoning by a room of PHD's was myoglobin remaining in the muscle, cooked, chilled (or frozen) temp change, color change. I'm not that smart just been doing it my whole life. USDA standards are just facts and guidelines. I eat my pork cooked to 140 my grandma would have died before she would eat pink pork chops. It's still just personal prefference.
  • Grandpas GrubGrandpas Grub Posts: 14,226
     
    I appreciate your comments and respect your education and professional knowledge in these matters.

    Nevertheless, some of the above issues were addressed in the above posts and appear to be creditable.

    As for the 155° reference as I read it it was an example as was the as was the reference to the 175° - 185°.

    For years I have posted according the the USDA Poultry should reach a safe minimum internal temperature of 165°F throughout the product. Here is the direct link USDA - Food Safety Information

    Another reference I link to is from the Reluctant Gourmet.com Cooking Temperatures - Know When Your Food is Done again the done temperature for Turkey and Chicken is said to be 165° - 170°.

    Personally I cook Poultry to 165° and I don't get concerned about the popular thought of 185° in the thigh/legs.

    I also like the flavor and texture of cooking chicken at a low temperature to the internal temperature of 190° - 200°.

    I think if folks would actually read the short article and especially the paragraphs on 'Discussion' and 'Conclusion' they would more understand the purpose of the article.

    I hope you and Tim are well.

    Kent
  • stikestike Posts: 15,597
    there's no real open clear discussion about this stuff. drives me nuts. you need to read all the industry studies and try to put it together yourself. we need a help desk. :laugh:

    seriously, though. what bacteria are IN meat anyway? on, yes. in? no fecal bacteria that i know, unless mishandled. but i know there's some bacteria in meat, like the favorable kind which (it is believed) slowly help transform pork leg into prosciutto even in the presence of so much hostile salt.

    i think it basically boils down to an abundance of caution, not so much a cut and dry threshold above or below which bacteria are dead or dangerous.

    i would wager the higher temps for chicken ar a result of it being served whole (joints, bones, etc.) versus a steak, and that it is easier to make a mistake taking the temp of smaller pieces of meat (breast, thighs, etc.) because you might not probe deep enough or conversely come out the other side. meaning, your thermo reads high because it's easy to hit the wrong spot. so allowance is made. "let's call it 160, because the thermo might have some error, and the person taking the temp may not do it correctly"

    just a guess. i would like to know. just as in school, in real life, asking questions is often seen as an attack. in this case i'm just wondering. really.
    ed egli avea del cul fatto trombetta -Dante
  • fishlessmanfishlessman Posts: 21,238
    just seen the germans eat raw minced pork. maybe we cant here because of the poor unsanitary conditions in the states :ermm: so raw clams,fish,beef,buffalo,lamb are good, have eaten those, but raw pork and chicken is not :laugh: not that i want to eat those even though others do
  • fishlessmanfishlessman Posts: 21,238
    im going to scratch barracuda off the list as well, the symptoms from eating a bad one are horrible from what i heard from the guides in the outer islands in the bahamas. some of the safety warnings are just passed down from generations back. some bahamians will only eat offshore deep water cudas, others only eat inshore cudas from the flats :laugh:
  • jaydub58jaydub58 Posts: 2,090
    Good Heavens....what could be worse than a galloping case of "Barracuda Breath"?

    :sick:
    John in the Willamette Valley of Oregon
  • RRPRRP Posts: 20,811
    hmmmm, so I better case each booth before consuming their offerings, huh? Actually I do have this thing about chicken that I don't fix myself so I would probably pass on it anyway! I suffered from food poisoning 35 years ago and have no desire to EVER go through that again!
    L, M, S, Mini
    Ron
    Dunlap, IL
  • Little ChefLittle Chef Posts: 4,725
    My bad for misquoting the Dr's credentials, I obviously should have dug a bit further. That said, I still believe his article is one of the most irresponsible articles I have ever seen, especially coming from someone who claims to provide Food Safety training. And sure, we can all make decisions on our own as far as how cooked/uncooked we want our food, which had led to wonderful disclaimers on restauant menus and such warning about undercooked meat/poultry/seafood, blah blah blah. It's called covering the proverbial a$$ when somebody gets sick. As many of you know, I am passionate about food, and food safety, which has led to my career path. I teach by the book, and can not fathom doing otherwise, nor am I willing to assume such liability. So for me anyways, it is a concern that people on this forum may see the chicken pictures on this link, and think that's how it is 'supposed' to look when 'properly' cooked, which obviously, it was not. Again, my bad for missing the full credentials of the Doctor, but I will never apologize for caring.

    An interesting link to the CDC (but not a very good dinner time read.)
    http://www.cdc.gov/ncidod/eid/vol5no5/mead.htm
  • The BoneThe Bone Posts: 14
    My only problem with this article is that it is not dated and doesn't appear to have been published. So, although I find it imformative and most likely accurate, I would like more backup before I feel comfortable eating chicken like the pieces shown in the pictures.
  • eggtopiaeggtopia Posts: 81
    Okay, so lets ignore the safety issue for a moment. Does the chicken in pics 3 and 4 look remotely appetizing to anyone?

    I'm a new egger, but I have been cooking for a long time and have noticed this problem of pink chicken that is done. I have eaten it (not as bad as in the pictures) and didn't like it at all. The texture is way off.
  • RRPRRP Posts: 20,811
    I agree with you! I wouldn't even be touching that chicken much less eating it!

    That reminds me about 8 years ago at our eggfest a couple newbie yuppies with their sweaters tied around their necks tried to pass off some ribs that were blood red raw after only 45 minutes on the egg. I bluntly said - "no thank you - I don't eat raw pork"! The woman scolded me saying that was a recipe right out of the BGE cookbook - I said I don't care - that's raw pork! They were p*ssed and left in a huff!
    L, M, S, Mini
    Ron
    Dunlap, IL
  • stikestike Posts: 15,597
    There are many on this forum that scoff at changing tongs from the raw state of poulty to finished cook is OK.

    there are? :blink:
    ed egli avea del cul fatto trombetta -Dante
  • fishlessmanfishlessman Posts: 21,238
    ive been poisoned twice, both times from beef. the last time was a chicken fried steak from the grasshopper inn in montana :ermm: what a long night
  • Little StevenLittle Steven Posts: 28,742
    Ron,

    Is it at McCormick?

    Steve 

    Caledon, ON

     

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