LOT OF TURKEY THIGH PROBLEMS THIS YEAR

mad max beyond eggdome · November 2009

so, it seems like a lot of folks cooking mad max turkey were having problems getting their thighs (the turkey's thighs, DOH) up to temp this year without drying out the breasts, even after doing the ice bag thing. . .and while it didn't happen to me yesterday with my 23 pound bird, i have experienced this before as well . . .so i'e been pondering the possible reasons for this phenomenon....no hard science here, just some thoughts. . .oh, and for those that called me, i did have a simple recommendation that i use and that keeps you from pitching one of the best parts of the turkey. ..

1. so why did this happen....my first thought is that the thighs weren't completely defrosted .. .i know that i always buy a 'fresh turkey' every year. . .but i also know that they can label turkey's fresh and still keep them at a certain temp at the store that semi freezes them . .. .not hard as a rock, but they are still slightly frozen ...and i wonder if you start out with one that is still slightly frozen, and even out of the fridge for an hour or so before putting it in the egg, that even after icing the breasts, that those thighs never catch up. . .i really don't think it has anythng to do with the liquid in the pan, or set up etc ... if anything, that liquid should be hellping create steam down there and cooking those thighs faster, not slower. . .so semi frozen thighs is really my only answer. ... i know my bird this year was really well defrostred and the thighs were perfectly cooked through when the breast meat hit 165. .. it was a perfect balance this year breast to thigh .. .

2. now, for the solution....and i've done this myself. . ..so your breast meat is in that perfect 160 -170 range, but your thigh meat is still low, say 160 - 170 also ...what do you do?? ..here is what i recommend. . .(and i've done this in the past). ..pull your turkey out of the egg, tent it well and set it aside while you make your gravy and get everything else ready . ... when you carve your bird, remove the legs completely. ...your drumsticks should be done ok. ...separate the thighs, and pop them in the microwave and zap them for 5 minutes on HIGH . ..that should finish them up just fine. . .won't hurt the taste or the moistness one bit. . .and it keeps you from pitching one of the best parts of the bird ..or overcooking the breasts while you try to get the thighs to temp ....

hope that helps .. .

Rolling Egg · November 2009

I came up with somewhat an easier way to ice the breast I think. I tried the ziplock bags and just couldn't get them to stay or when they stayed there was still a portion of the breast without ice. I actually put about 4 inches of water and ice in my sink and let it set breast down with the thighs and legs sticking out. It actually gave me about 25 degrees diff. Thigh finished at 180 with breast at 165. Just a thought.

mad max beyond eggdome · November 2009

sounds like a good way to do it. ..i think someone else told me that did it that way too ....more important issue though is making good and sure that those thighs are totally defrosted....

jpEGG · November 2009

Thanks, Max, for all the tips this year. As I posted earlier, everything was perfect except the thighs, which were at 165 right along with the breast. My bird was butchered two days before cooking, so no defrosting issue there.

hornhonk · November 2009

We bought a 12# fresh turkey on Tuesday and put it in the fridge till Thursday, but I'll bet you are right, Max. I will buy the next one a few days earlier and see if that makes a difference. And it could also be true that the ice bag was near enough to the thighs to cool them. Still, the best tasting, juiciest breast meat I've ever tasted

Fidel · November 2009

The steam will never be above 212* (maybe 220* considering it isn't exactly purewater, but is close enough for this argument). So in theory the thighs will be in a lower temperature environment than the upper parts of the bird which are actually heating faster due to the convection heat from the dome of the egg. This is particularly true the higher in the dome the bird rests.

Maybe starting the bird breasts down for the first hour would be something to try in the off season - keeping presentation in mind - and flip the bird after an hour to begin the basting process. I bet this would also help with the potential over-browning and would make tenting with foil unnecessary as well. Just food for thought.

SkySaw · November 2009

I was really impressed with the number of picture-perfect turkeys on the forum, which provided clear testimony to the beauty of the Mad Max method.

My guess about the thighs is that it s related to the pan/rack. Turkeys that sit too low in the pan and too near the sides may be getting a 'tin foil' effect from the pan, essentially protecting them from cooking faster.

Mark

jpEGG · November 2009

That certainly could have been the case in my situation. Things were a little tight at that end of the pan. I'll store that away and also try Fidel's suggestion, which also makes sense.

mad max beyond eggdome · November 2009

interesting theory rod . .. but you know, i probably use more liquid than most ... and because i DON'T use a v-rack, my bird (and therefor my thighs) actually set lower in the roasting pan than most people's do (i have that trivet thing in my pan that my bird sits on) ...so while i certainly don't disagree with what you are saying here (and skysaw said much the same just above). . .it doesn't corelate to why i didn't experience that problem, all things being equal . . .i'd still like to think, give the varying experiences of folks (most having no issues at all), that it is more likely a matter of people sticking their birds in with thighs that are still really cold in the center. . .

mad max beyond eggdome · November 2009

see my response to fidel below . . .while i don't disagree with you. . i know that my bird sits lower in the pan than most since i don't use a v-rack, and i typically don't have that problem ...so while i think its a good theory, i'm not sure i fully agree with it .. .guess we are going to have to keep testing it though!! :cheer:

Nature Boy · November 2009

What about getting the bird more out in the open? In other words drop the drip pan so it's at least 8 inches below the bird. I know it kinda blows your whole system out of the water, and you would have to be careful not to burn your drippings, but the thighs would get exposed to more heat.

Just thinkin. Cheers, and nice job with all the people you helped have a nice TDay turkey!
Chris

mad max beyond eggdome · November 2009

no, it really doesn't blow the system ...not sure if you could make it all fit that way though. .. . a v-rack with a shallow pan would certainly get the thighs up above the edge of the pan though, still allow for the drippings/basting liquid in the pan .. ..certainly worth a try . . .i can't fully explain it ...like i said, i do the exact same set up every year, and even i can't claim exact same results from one year to the next . .. you do have to be a little bit flexible and adjust as necessary to achieve the desired end result ...but i don't see the need to go to drastic measures like upside down birds . ..

hey, on other fronts. ...did closing go ok on friday?? ..and did the spawn call you about january??

Spring Chicken · November 2009

Being of 'Fowl Mind' at the moment and not Eggsperiencing any of the rum induced problems of late, I'm of the opinion that the turkey may not have been fully thawed and/or the Egg not fully stabilized at the desired temperature.

Think about it... No one said anything about using a ThermoPen to check the 'thawedness' of the turkey so it's quite possible that pockets of frozen meat were well inside the meaty section.

And another thing: we all know what happens when you put a cold turkey with a lot of cold liquid and a cold pan/rack inside an Egg that isn't stabilized. The temperature drops dramatically and tries hard to catch back up.

Then there's the matter of the liquid itself radiating its temperature upward into the thigh and leg until it warms up. It actually might be better to warm the liquid in a sauce pan before putting into the roasting pan.

Lily Large was stabilized for an hour and it only took a few minutes to catch back up. I believe that's why I didn't have to rotate Norman or worry about it being uniformly done.

Finally, there could be a problem with the probe not being positioned properly. It could be touching bone. I would like to think that both the bone and meat surrounding it should be at 180° but perhaps that's not important.

Just my 2¢ worth.

Spring "Currently Stabilized" Chicken
Spring Texas USA

JB · November 2009

I wound up flipping mine over (breast side down) for the last hour. My breasts got to about 168 when the thigh reached 180. I think Max may be right about the defrosting though. Mine was in the fridge breast up and the bottom did seem much colder when I was prepping. All that said, 212* steam will cook anything faster than 350* air, so it doesn't make sense that the part exposed to steam would cook slower. It's a quandry...

tjv · November 2009

I'm guessing folks just peaked too often to check out the bird. Each time you open the dome, you evacuate the heat in the middle of the egg where there is not as much thermal mass to radiate back or ceiling (top of dome) to collect and push back the rising heat.

Saw lots of pics with breasts high in the dome, so if you peaked a lot, chances are the dome temp was higher on average than across the felt line where the thighs hung out.

Might check, how many experienced egg cooks vs. new egg cooks had problems. Assumption is experienced cooks won’t peak as often, therefore less problems.

That's my hunch, but then I did get a "C" in thermodynamics and statistics back in the day........

T

Rod · November 2009

Thanks Max for addressing this.

ThermoPening the thigh prior to cooking is a good idea.

I noticed on my fresh 18.5 lb butterball that the legs were constrained. I wonder if unconstraining the legs will help allow more heat to that area.

When I pulled:

mad max beyond eggdome · November 2009

yeah, except i open mine every 20 minutes to baste . ..so i know that slows things down cause of heat loss, but it usually doesn't affect my thigh cooking ...i really really think its more a matter of cold thighs to start with .. ..i gotta do a wizzaroo type experiment and test cold thigh temps right when i start to see where they are ...

tjv · November 2009

a gadget for hot tubing thighs could be your Ronco veg-o-matic road to easy street.......LOl. t

hornhonk · November 2009

Thanks for checking this out for us, Max. Spring Chickens' thermapen idea really makes sense,too. BTW, my set-up was just like Freds' in the video.

bitslammer · November 2009

I may have "over iced" my bird as the thighs hit 180*F well ahead of the breast hitting 160*F. It was great though. Legs were a little dry but the rest was fantastic and the breast is what I most care about anyway.

EGGARY · November 2009

I think at 160 - 165 the thighs are done. The turkey is still going to "cook" after it is taken out. To get is at 180 and then it will still cook it will go even higher.

My two cents worth.

Gary

Bobby-Q · November 2009

Didn't have any issues with the thighs not being done but the bird overall was dry as a bone in my opinion this year. Nobody else noticed it but I think I had a bad bird. I'm gonna stick to frozen birds from now on I think.

Oh the dome got opened and closed a few times but that is because I had a couple of future EGGers here this year and they couldn't wait to see it cooking.

All in all it was a great Thanksgiving though.

How are things in Texas?

hornhonk · November 2009

All the breasts are juicy in Texas

Roudy · November 2009

I haven't always achieved 165/180 with the breast and thigh, but this year I did. I attribute it to keeping the breasts iced longer than I usually do (40 minutes this time). The bird was really tasty, but slightly drier than I'm used to. Don't know if that's due to my buying a fresh free range bird this time (Whole Foods) vs. frozen Butterball. The best results were with the gravy - it was three shades darker than usual and the best I've ever made. :woohoo:

irishrog · November 2009

Why not put the thighs back into the EGG for 10/15 minutes while the bird is resting. Remover the legs, seperate the thighs from the drumsticks, and put the thighs back in to finish.

BobS · November 2009

If it makes you feel any better, I had problems with one cooked in the oven this year.

Camano · November 2009

My fourth MM turkey. Geat, no problems, unless too much to eat counts. I am spoiled as far as turkey goes.

LOT OF TURKEY THIGH PROBLEMS THIS YEAR

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