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Shady competion judging.......MAYBE?

Midnight SmokerMidnight Smoker Posts: 273
edited 11:33PM in EggHead Forum
Not going to name the comp yet, but there seems to have been a little stink in the air. Have done this comp for the last 5 years and this has never happened. 25% of the chicken entries where DQ'd for being undercooked. I was one of them and I probed all my pieces with my Thermopen and all the reading were over 170*'s (over cooked in my book!). I brined and smoked for 2 hours....then cranked up the heat and glazed for 8-10 minutes.

Just a bit pissed because we would have taken Grand Champ and at least another $700. We took second in ribs and 3rd in set-up.

There were6 KCSS judges and 2 "celebrity judges". Do all the judges have to confirm the undercooked piece? Does 25% sound like a large number of DQ'S?????

Thanks and sorry for the rant, Paul


  • How were the pieces determined to be undercooked? Did they take the temp or just make a visual call? If they took temp then how long did they wait to temp the pieces?

    Sounds like really bad logistics to me. I can't see 1/4 of the people having undercooked chicken.
  • SmokeySmokey Posts: 2,468
    I have been a KCBS certified judge for 5 years and it is my understanding that a DQ must be authorized by the contest representative. As a judge, you should confer with your table captain, who will bring in the contest rep.

    The 25% DQs sounds VERY high.

    There is some specific wording about chicken, that due to smoking technique, the color can appear pink at the joint, this does not necessarily indicate an undercooked entry. To properly judge chicken, the juice should run clear. I suspect a "Celebrity Judge" could make such a mistake.

    BTW, that does suck ... big time :angry: :woohoo: :ermm:

    Just some thoughts.
  • Bobby-QBobby-Q Posts: 1,995
    So this contest had 8 teams and 2 got DQ'd? Was it a KCBS event or some other organization, I'm not familiar with KCSS but figured it might have been a typo for KCBS. Smokey is correct that a rep has to DQ an entry and the judges cannot do that. I could see chicken at 170° still having the vein by the bone intact and holding blood. Also if the bone was cut or cracked it can leach blood because they no longer let the chickens live long enough to develop before they slaughter them.

    When I re-read your post I'm wondering what the sanctioning body was because I've never seen a "set-up" category and especially one that would count toward the Grand. If it was an unsanctioned contest then all bets are off. If it was another organization other than KCBS then you can ignore all the parts about how the DQ has to happen.

    Sorry about your upset.
  • Ah didn't think about how many teams. When I saw 25% I was thinking like 8-10 teams, but 2 out of 8 I could see. I also agree that if it was previously frozen chicken or poorly processed chicken then the blood present even at correct temps scenario could come into play.
  • Having just reached our master Judge status with KCBS, my wife and I would like to comment on this. FIRST of all chicken being under cooked can not be DQ'd. The rules states chicken should be first judged on appearance, then if the judges beleive that it under cooked it would be scored 2 in taste and tenderiness. The score of 2 is not a DG but is classified as inedible.
  • drbbqdrbbq Posts: 1,152
    The fact that there were 8 judges leads me to believe that this was a non-sanctioned contest. This type of thing happens a lot at non-sanctioned contests.
    Ray Lampe Dr. BBQ
  • I second what Ray just said, that it was anon KCBS event. Had it been a KCBS the undercooked chicken should noy have been DQ'd per KCBS rules.
  • CBBQCBBQ Posts: 610
    It sounds more like incompetent judging than shady.
  • This explains why fully cooked chicken is often believed to be undercooked.
  • I have seen a KCBS comp where a guy was allowed to cook ribs for 2 teams. What a crock.

  • thirdeyethirdeye Posts: 7,428
    Did anyone do the napkin test?
    Happy Trails

    Barbecue is not rocket surgery
  • That has no bearing on the out come..
  • Since you don't care for KCBS, why pass on something that. I can't think of any reason that any KCBS ref would allow that to happen. Was it you doing the cooking?
  • Nature BoyNature Boy Posts: 8,523
    First, I agree with drbbq. Unsanctioned events are notorious for giving contestants something to gripe about.

    But first I have to ask you....were they thighs or drumsticks?? Personally I would never turn those in at 170s.

    Congrats on your other calls, and your almost GC!
    Twitter: @dizzypigbbq
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  • Where did I say, I didn't care for KCBS? No it wasn't me. They let the man cook to have "25" teams. They really only had 24.
    They wanted it sanctioned.
    I was JAFO.
  • That should have never happened.
  • CBBQCBBQ Posts: 610
    I think KCBS does a great job but that doesn't mean politics don't play into it on occasion. I was at a sanctioned event in a smaller town as a guest of the guy who put it together. I overheard a judge tell him that "There's no way an outsider is going to win this". An off-the-record conversation with my friend brought up the fact that sales of product, especially sauce and restaurants are built on reputation which can be enhanced by awards and trophies. It can even help tourism in certain areas.
    Like I said, I think the KCBS and all they do is great. But just like the olympics, which has strict rules and guidlines for judges there's always a chance of abuse. Especially when scores are based on "judgement".
  • I hear what you say and rules are made to be broken. I have visited a contest in McLouth, Ks and that could have happened there since the organizer does not allow more than 5-8 KCBS judges. They generally have around 5o cookers and the judges are city folks and long time sponsors.
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