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Barbacoa Options
Options
SciAggie
Posts: 6,481
I’ve been thinking - and that’s sometimes a mistake. I’m happy with the way my carnitas experiment unfolded. I would definitely do it again. https://eggheadforum.com/discussion/1220899/my-carnitas-experiment/p1
Now I’m thinking about barbacoa...
I was looking through the idle hands thread again - https://eggheadforum.com/discussion/1208910/idle-hands/p1
I was actually considering digging a pit but then I got to thinking - isn’t the wood oven essentially providing a similar delivery of heat? It’s just not a pit - but it is using thermal energy stored in bricks/soil/cement.
I was looking through the idle hands thread again - https://eggheadforum.com/discussion/1208910/idle-hands/p1
I was actually considering digging a pit but then I got to thinking - isn’t the wood oven essentially providing a similar delivery of heat? It’s just not a pit - but it is using thermal energy stored in bricks/soil/cement.
I’m also thinking about what to cook. As entertaining as a head might be I’m thinking beef cheeks and toungue are good enough on their own to make a pretty fine taco.
This got me thinking about @smokingal ‘s thread about beef cheek carnitas. https://eggheadforum.com/discussion/1219232/wagyu-beef-cheek-carnitas
@The Cen-Tex Smoker had some good things to say about smoked beef cheeks finished confit in beef fat - basically carnitas...
@The Cen-Tex Smoker had some good things to say about smoked beef cheeks finished confit in beef fat - basically carnitas...
I guess I’m just pondering the true difference between a traditional barbacoa taco and a carnitas taco in terms of texture and flavor.
Here are my options I’m considering:
I can get banana leaves from Amazon. I could cook beef cheeks and pork shoulder - or a leg of lamb wrapped in the leaves over a roasting pan of broth for the same effect as cooking in a pit. If it’s effectively different explain my error in reasoning.
I can get banana leaves from Amazon. I could cook beef cheeks and pork shoulder - or a leg of lamb wrapped in the leaves over a roasting pan of broth for the same effect as cooking in a pit. If it’s effectively different explain my error in reasoning.
Or
I could smoke the beef cheeks on the offset until I get a bark on them and then go one of three ways.
I could smoke the beef cheeks on the offset until I get a bark on them and then go one of three ways.
1) Finish them confit in fat back on the smoker or in the wood oven at low heat.
2) Finish them Sous Vide.
3) Finish them by braising.
3) Finish them by braising.
I’m not sure if there would be any huge taste difference between the methods.
I can make the tongue sous vide like in the idle hands thread - or should I make it in a more traditional manner just for chickles and grins?
@20stone @The Cen-Tex Smoker @caliking @smokingal @SGH and whoever else - whaddayathink? Or am I making this too hard? I’m just trying to plan out a fun cook that delivers an authentic barbacoa style taco. At the least maybe this will be a fun discussion. I’ve got several tools in my arsenal now and I weighing the options to see what combinations will make the tastiest food.
Coleman, Texas
Large BGE & Mini Max for the wok. A few old camp Dutch ovens and a wood fired oven. LSG 24” cabinet offset smoker. There are a few paella pans and a Patagonia cross in the barn. A curing chamber for bacterial transformation of meats...
"Bourbon slushies. Sure you can cook on the BGE without them, but why would you?"
YukonRon
Large BGE & Mini Max for the wok. A few old camp Dutch ovens and a wood fired oven. LSG 24” cabinet offset smoker. There are a few paella pans and a Patagonia cross in the barn. A curing chamber for bacterial transformation of meats...
"Bourbon slushies. Sure you can cook on the BGE without them, but why would you?"
YukonRon
Comments
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I do not have anything to contribute to this, but I am here for all of the responses from people who do. In other words... following. 😎"I've made a note never to piss you two off." - Stike
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SciAggie said:I guess I’m just pondering the true difference between a traditional barbacoa taco and a carnitas taco in terms of texture and flavor.With that said, when the average gringo hears barbacoa he is automatically thinking about Mexican barbacoa made with some type of head meat that is steamed or braised in some type of pot or container that is buried in a pit. The pan contains a small section of clod meat. The ball of foil contains a goats head.In my modest and humble opinion, there is not a dimes worth of difference in the cooking method or cooking vessel. What makes all the difference in the world is the quality of meat, spices, marinade and how well you cook it. I have done it on a hole in the ground, on a reverse flow cabinet, a reverse flow offset, a traditional offset and see no difference. In fact when using a true steaming pot I can get the same results without all the hassle by placing the pot on a gas burner. Why? Remember that Mexican barbacoa is steamed in a pot. As such it does not matter what you use it will pick up zero smoke in the pot.Again, and just to be clear, there are certainly variations of barbacoa where the meat is smoked. But what I have seen way south of the border is not. It is basically steamed or braised.
Location- Just "this side" of Biloxi, Ms.
Status- Standing by.
The greatest barrier against all wisdom, the stronghold against knowledge itself, is the single thought, in ones mind, that they already have it all figured out. -
At the end of the day you can cook it anyway you want my friend and get outstanding results👍
Location- Just "this side" of Biloxi, Ms.
Status- Standing by.
The greatest barrier against all wisdom, the stronghold against knowledge itself, is the single thought, in ones mind, that they already have it all figured out. -
I have some thoughts on this, based on our past cook documented in the idle hands thread, just need some time to respond properly.
To start with, I called the HEB in Abilene and they have fresh banana leaves $5 for a 5lb bundle. In case you are in those parts.
More later.#1 LBGE December 2012 • #2 SBGE February 2013 • #3 Mini May 2013A happy BGE family in Houston, TX. -
Here’s the way we do it.Cheeks would be awesome too. Definitely more traditional.Keepin' It Weird in The ATX FBTX
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caliking said:I have some thoughts on this, based on our past cook documented in the idle hands thread, just need some time to respond properly.
To start with, I called the HEB in Abilene and they have fresh banana leaves $5 for a 5lb bundle. In case you are in those parts.
More later.Coleman, Texas
Large BGE & Mini Max for the wok. A few old camp Dutch ovens and a wood fired oven. LSG 24” cabinet offset smoker. There are a few paella pans and a Patagonia cross in the barn. A curing chamber for bacterial transformation of meats...
"Bourbon slushies. Sure you can cook on the BGE without them, but why would you?"
YukonRon -
@SGH Yeah, that barbacoa is steamed in a pot is what got me thinking. I cooked a hog in the ground years ago with some friends and remember how it was essentially steamed.I was thinking about wrapping meat in banana leaves over a steaming pan in the wood oven. That should be close enough without digging up the back forty...
I appreciate the insight.Coleman, Texas
Large BGE & Mini Max for the wok. A few old camp Dutch ovens and a wood fired oven. LSG 24” cabinet offset smoker. There are a few paella pans and a Patagonia cross in the barn. A curing chamber for bacterial transformation of meats...
"Bourbon slushies. Sure you can cook on the BGE without them, but why would you?"
YukonRon -
The Cen-Tex Smoker said:Here’s the way we do it.Cheeks would be awesome too. Definitely more traditional.Coleman, Texas
Large BGE & Mini Max for the wok. A few old camp Dutch ovens and a wood fired oven. LSG 24” cabinet offset smoker. There are a few paella pans and a Patagonia cross in the barn. A curing chamber for bacterial transformation of meats...
"Bourbon slushies. Sure you can cook on the BGE without them, but why would you?"
YukonRon -
caliking said:I have some thoughts on this, based on our past cook documented in the idle hands thread, just need some time to respond properly.
To start with, I called the HEB in Abilene and they have fresh banana leaves $5 for a 5lb bundle. In case you are in those parts.
More later.Coleman, Texas
Large BGE & Mini Max for the wok. A few old camp Dutch ovens and a wood fired oven. LSG 24” cabinet offset smoker. There are a few paella pans and a Patagonia cross in the barn. A curing chamber for bacterial transformation of meats...
"Bourbon slushies. Sure you can cook on the BGE without them, but why would you?"
YukonRon -
Fascinating read....."Knowledge is Good" - Emil Faber
XL and MM
Louisville, Kentucky -
YukonRon said:Fascinating read.....I should probably drink more and think a bit less...Coleman, Texas
Large BGE & Mini Max for the wok. A few old camp Dutch ovens and a wood fired oven. LSG 24” cabinet offset smoker. There are a few paella pans and a Patagonia cross in the barn. A curing chamber for bacterial transformation of meats...
"Bourbon slushies. Sure you can cook on the BGE without them, but why would you?"
YukonRon -
@SciAggie Out of the possibilities you've mentioned, this one sounded best to me:Smoke the beef cheeks on the offset until I get a bark on them and then go one of three ways.1) Finish them confit in fat back on the smoker or in the wood oven at low heat.
If you can switch out Wagyu fat (SRF black gold?) for back fat, man, would that be some tasty stuff.It's "Smokin Gal", not "Smoking Al".
Egging in the Atlanta GA region
Large BGE, CGS setup, Kick Ash Basket, Smokeware SS Cap,
Arteflame grill grate
http://barbecueaddict.com -
Thanks @smokingal I appreciate the feedback.Coleman, Texas
Large BGE & Mini Max for the wok. A few old camp Dutch ovens and a wood fired oven. LSG 24” cabinet offset smoker. There are a few paella pans and a Patagonia cross in the barn. A curing chamber for bacterial transformation of meats...
"Bourbon slushies. Sure you can cook on the BGE without them, but why would you?"
YukonRon -
Dang man, this is another epic cook coming from you.My only concern so far is remembering that @SGH never did tell us how he dug that hole so perfectly....=======================================
XL 6/06, Mini 6/12, L 10/12, Mini #2 12/14 MiniMax 3/16 Large #2 11/20 Legacy from my FIL - RIP
Tampa Bay, FL
EIB 6 Oct 95 -
thetrim said:Dang man, this is another epic cook coming from you.My only concern so far is remembering that @SGH never did tell us how he dug that hole so perfectly....Coleman, Texas
Large BGE & Mini Max for the wok. A few old camp Dutch ovens and a wood fired oven. LSG 24” cabinet offset smoker. There are a few paella pans and a Patagonia cross in the barn. A curing chamber for bacterial transformation of meats...
"Bourbon slushies. Sure you can cook on the BGE without them, but why would you?"
YukonRon -
SciAggie said:I’ve been thinking - and that’s sometimes a mistake. I’m happy with the way my carnitas experiment unfolded. I would definitely do it again. https://eggheadforum.com/discussion/1220899/my-carnitas-experiment/p1Now I’m thinking about barbacoa...
I was looking through the idle hands thread again - https://eggheadforum.com/discussion/1208910/idle-hands/p1
I was actually considering digging a pit but then I got to thinking - isn’t the wood oven essentially providing a similar delivery of heat? It’s just not a pit - but it is using thermal energy stored in bricks/soil/cement.I’m also thinking about what to cook. As entertaining as a head might be I’m thinking beef cheeks and toungue are good enough on their own to make a pretty fine taco.This got me thinking about @smokingal ‘s thread about beef cheek carnitas. https://eggheadforum.com/discussion/1219232/wagyu-beef-cheek-carnitas
@The Cen-Tex Smoker had some good things to say about smoked beef cheeks finished confit in beef fat - basically carnitas...I guess I’m just pondering the true difference between a traditional barbacoa taco and a carnitas taco in terms of texture and flavor.Here are my options I’m considering:
I can get banana leaves from Amazon. I could cook beef cheeks and pork shoulder - or a leg of lamb wrapped in the leaves over a roasting pan of broth for the same effect as cooking in a pit. If it’s effectively different explain my error in reasoning.Or
I could smoke the beef cheeks on the offset until I get a bark on them and then go one of three ways.1) Finish them confit in fat back on the smoker or in the wood oven at low heat.2) Finish them Sous Vide.
3) Finish them by braising.I’m not sure if there would be any huge taste difference between the methods.I can make the tongue sous vide like in the idle hands thread - or should I make it in a more traditional manner just for chickles and grins?@20stone @The Cen-Tex Smoker @caliking @smokingal @SGH and whoever else - whaddayathink? Or am I making this too hard? I’m just trying to plan out a fun cook that delivers an authentic barbacoa style taco. At the least maybe this will be a fun discussion. I’ve got several tools in my arsenal now and I weighing the options to see what combinations will make the tastiest food.the beef cheeks I had at the Meat Church class were 2:1 pepper to salt, smoked 4 hours at 250 and Confit 4 hours back on the smoker in beef fat from briskets. He sliced the bigger cheeks and they were like amazing brisket. He shredded the smaller cheeks and trim to make barbacoa. Fantastic as well. much more like traditional barbaoca than mine. Mine is a flavor bomb but i think it's more traditional to just use salt and pepper. I definitely like the smoke that comes with mine and Evan's from the Meat Church class. You won't get any of that in banana leaves.here is the thread with the beef cheek (about half way down first page)Highly recommend trying this.
Keepin' It Weird in The ATX FBTX -
@The Cen-Tex Smoker Thanks. I will definitely cook some cheeks this way. They can't help but be superb. All of this is academic in a way, but cooking cheeks like this seems to fit the definition of carnitas better than barbacoa.
At the end of the day the only thing that's important is making food taste good. In part I'm thinking about minutia that probably isn't important - but to me it is at least interesting.Coleman, Texas
Large BGE & Mini Max for the wok. A few old camp Dutch ovens and a wood fired oven. LSG 24” cabinet offset smoker. There are a few paella pans and a Patagonia cross in the barn. A curing chamber for bacterial transformation of meats...
"Bourbon slushies. Sure you can cook on the BGE without them, but why would you?"
YukonRon -
SciAggie said:@The Cen-Tex Smoker Thanks. I will definitely cook some cheeks this way. They can't help but be superb. All of this is academic in a way, but cooking cheeks like this seems to fit the definition of carnitas better than barbacoa.
At the end of the day the only thing that's important is making food taste good. In part I'm thinking about minutia that probably isn't important - but to me it is at least interesting.
Keepin' It Weird in The ATX FBTX -
I'll say that I have enjoyed the finished product way better when cooking with some smoke more than any of the banana leaf/pit cooks I have done (only done a couple). I have done cochinita pibil in a pit, in the egg, and in the oven, all with banana leaves. While it's always fun to dig a hole and light a fire, I could not tell a bit of difference with any of them. Once you wrap it, it's not going to take on any smoke so you may as well do it the easiest way. I like smoke on things like this so I smoke them for 4 hours then finish however the recipe calls for (braise/oven/banana leaves/whatever).Can't wait to see how this turns out.Keepin' It Weird in The ATX FBTX
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The Cen-Tex Smoker said:I'll say that I have enjoyed the finished product way better when cooking with some smoke more than any of the banana leaf/pit cooks I have done (only done a couple). I have done cochinita pibil in a pit, in the egg, and in the oven, all with banana leaves. While it's always fun to dig a hole and light a fire, I could not tell a bit of difference with any of them. Once you wrap it, it's not going to take on any smoke so you may as well do it the easiest way. I like smoke on things like this so I smoke them for 4 hours then finish however the recipe calls for (braise/oven/banana leaves/whatever).Can't wait to see how this turns out.
I've never cooked anything wrapped in banana leaves so I feel compelled to try it at least once. I'm thinking I'll get a large covered roaster for the cook. I want to elevate the meat on a rack so I can make a broth in the bottom while adding steam to the cook. I'll marinate and wrap the meat in banana leaves and place the bundle over the cooking liquid. Then put the lid on the roaster and slide the whole business in the wood oven with the door closed for a nice long cook.
That should emulate a pit cook fairly well from all I have read. Then I'll know the difference and how I like it.Coleman, Texas
Large BGE & Mini Max for the wok. A few old camp Dutch ovens and a wood fired oven. LSG 24” cabinet offset smoker. There are a few paella pans and a Patagonia cross in the barn. A curing chamber for bacterial transformation of meats...
"Bourbon slushies. Sure you can cook on the BGE without them, but why would you?"
YukonRon -
SciAggie said:The Cen-Tex Smoker said:I'll say that I have enjoyed the finished product way better when cooking with some smoke more than any of the banana leaf/pit cooks I have done (only done a couple). I have done cochinita pibil in a pit, in the egg, and in the oven, all with banana leaves. While it's always fun to dig a hole and light a fire, I could not tell a bit of difference with any of them. Once you wrap it, it's not going to take on any smoke so you may as well do it the easiest way. I like smoke on things like this so I smoke them for 4 hours then finish however the recipe calls for (braise/oven/banana leaves/whatever).Can't wait to see how this turns out.
I've never cooked anything wrapped in banana leaves so I feel compelled to try it at least once. I'm thinking I'll get a large covered roaster for the cook. I want to elevate the meat on a rack so I can make a broth in the bottom while adding steam to the cook. I'll marinate and wrap the meat in banana leaves and place the bundle over the cooking liquid. Then put the lid on the roaster and slide the whole business in the wood oven with the door closed for a nice long cook.
That should emulate a pit cook fairly well from all I have read. Then I'll know the difference and how I like it.
Keepin' It Weird in The ATX FBTX -
@The Cen-Tex Smoker Ok. Thanks. That's good to know. I may talk myself out of this before I'm done.
Smoked then simmered in fat is a hard combo to beat and I know how to do that...Coleman, Texas
Large BGE & Mini Max for the wok. A few old camp Dutch ovens and a wood fired oven. LSG 24” cabinet offset smoker. There are a few paella pans and a Patagonia cross in the barn. A curing chamber for bacterial transformation of meats...
"Bourbon slushies. Sure you can cook on the BGE without them, but why would you?"
YukonRon -
As time allows, you should try it many different ways my friend 👍
Location- Just "this side" of Biloxi, Ms.
Status- Standing by.
The greatest barrier against all wisdom, the stronghold against knowledge itself, is the single thought, in ones mind, that they already have it all figured out. -
thetrim said:Dang man, this is another epic cook coming from you.My only concern so far is remembering that @SGH never did tell us how he dug that hole so perfectly...."I've made a note never to piss you two off." - Stike
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SGH said:As time allows, you should try it many different ways my friend 👍Coleman, Texas
Large BGE & Mini Max for the wok. A few old camp Dutch ovens and a wood fired oven. LSG 24” cabinet offset smoker. There are a few paella pans and a Patagonia cross in the barn. A curing chamber for bacterial transformation of meats...
"Bourbon slushies. Sure you can cook on the BGE without them, but why would you?"
YukonRon -
Cen-Tex can rustle up some barbacoa that'll make you wanna slap yo momma. Enjoyed it recently, and its freakin good.
My thoughts about wrapping in banana leaves are similar to what he had to say. When we did the cabeza a while back, they turned out kinda 'wet' i.e. steamed, and low in roasty, Maillard reaction type of flavor. If we were to do it again, I would also vote to smoke the protein for a bit then wrap. But for the record, wrapping in banana leaves is WAY cooler than foil or butcher paper
Re: the best treatment for the beef cheeks, I stopped reading after " 1) finish them confit..." Yess!!
Beef tongue - I vote for SV. I've never eaten the real deal, and all interwebz recipes call for boiling it. SV wins, IMO. But if you find a traditional method for cooking it, I'm in favor. So what if it takes a heck of a lot longer??
Lastly, i'm a fan of seasoning with more than S&P. If you give some thought to which peppers to include (some for forward heat, some for warmth, some for heat that rolls in towards the end of the bite) you can get some wonderful flavors packed in there. A mix of dried ancho, pequin, guajillo, or whatever you like will ramp it up, without necessarily being flaming hot to eat. Don't forget the garlic. There's no such thing as too much garlic. Or cumin, IMO. One of the real takeaway points from our cabeza cook was that rehydrating the dried chiles, to make a mash then the spice rub/paste, was a winning move.#1 LBGE December 2012 • #2 SBGE February 2013 • #3 Mini May 2013A happy BGE family in Houston, TX. -
Find yourself a choricera and make some saudero, which is the tops in Mexico City. For me, only bested by the king, carnitas. But that’s because pork is the best.
The choricera essentially confits the meat in the deep part (think sombrero) then is seared off on the dome to get crispy. Saudero is Rose meat(Near the brisket). It’s common in Central and South America. Typically used for ground beef in the US. -
@caliking Thanks for the time you put into the response. I really appreciate your experience and comments. I certainly agree with needing more than S&P for seasoning.@Eggcelsior I’m making Google tired looking up all those words, lol. Thanks for the feedback.Coleman, Texas
Large BGE & Mini Max for the wok. A few old camp Dutch ovens and a wood fired oven. LSG 24” cabinet offset smoker. There are a few paella pans and a Patagonia cross in the barn. A curing chamber for bacterial transformation of meats...
"Bourbon slushies. Sure you can cook on the BGE without them, but why would you?"
YukonRon -
@caliking @The Cen-Tex Smoker I have a question about wrapping in banana leaves. Do they actually impart any unique flavor to a dish? I get that it's cool and might have crowd appeal for guests - but is there any real difference in flavor over wrapping in foil?
As I watch videos of folks cooking in pits it seems the leaves provide insulation from the direct coals/fire bricks. They also would seem to help by both providing and trapping moisture. Leaves seem to be what people used before foil was around...Coleman, Texas
Large BGE & Mini Max for the wok. A few old camp Dutch ovens and a wood fired oven. LSG 24” cabinet offset smoker. There are a few paella pans and a Patagonia cross in the barn. A curing chamber for bacterial transformation of meats...
"Bourbon slushies. Sure you can cook on the BGE without them, but why would you?"
YukonRon -
Banana leaves don't impart flavor as such. Kind of acts like butcher paper, because it can sort of breathe, unlike foil. But it doesn't burn like paper, or conduct heat like foil, so it works well buried in pits.
Dim sum places usually have a sticky rice item steamed in lotus leaves, which are hardy enough to withstand cooking, and lend a woodsy flavor to the rice. The leaves aren't large enough for big cuts though.#1 LBGE December 2012 • #2 SBGE February 2013 • #3 Mini May 2013A happy BGE family in Houston, TX.
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