Big Green Egg - EGGhead Forum - The Ultimate Cooking Experience...
Welcome to the EGGhead Forum - a great place to visit and packed with tips and EGGspert advice! You can also join the conversation and get more information and amazing kamado recipes by following Big Green Egg at:

Facebook  |  Twitter  |  Instagram  |  Pinterest  |  Youtube  |  Vimeo
Share your photos by tagging us and using the hashtag #EGGhead4Life.


In Atlanta? Come visit Big Green Egg headquarters, including our retail showroom, the History of the EGG Museum and Culinary Center!  3786 DeKalb Technology Parkway, Atlanta, GA 30340.

OT - Science vs God

SmokeySmokey Posts: 2,468
edited 6:43PM in EggHead Forum
A good friend sent this and it is a fun (but long) read.

This is in no way intended to offend ANYONE (it's just for fun)

Oh, and I am told it is a true story!!

Science vs God

"Let me explain the problem science has with religion."

The atheist professor of philosophy pauses before his class and then asks one of his new students to stand.

'You're a Christian, aren't you, son?'

'Yes sir,' the student says.

'So you believe in God?'

'Absolutely '

'Is God good?'

'Sure! God's good.'

'Is God all-powerful? Can God do anything?'

'Yes'

'Are you good or evil?'

'The Bible says I'm evil.'

The professor grins knowingly. 'Aha! The Bible! He considers for a moment. 'Here's one for you. Let's say there's a sick person over here and you can cure him. You can do it. Would you help him? Would you try?'

'Yes sir, I would.'

'So you're good...!'

'I wouldn't say that.'

'But why not say that? You'd help a sick and maimed person if you could. Most of us would if we could. But God doesn't.'

The student does not answer, so the professor continues. 'He doesn't, does he? My brother was a Christian who died of
cancer, even though he prayed to Jesus to heal him. How is this Jesus good? Can you answer that one?'

The student remains silent. 'No, you can't, can you?' the professor says. He takes a sip of water from a glass on his desk to give the student time to relax. 'Let's start again, young fella. Is God good?'

'Er..yes,' the student says.

'Is Satan good?'

The student doesn't hesitate on this one.. 'No.'

'Then where does Satan come from?'

The student falters. 'From God'

'That's right. God made Satan, didn't he? Tell me, son. Is there evil in this world?'

'Yes, sir.'

'Evil's everywhere, isn't it? And God did make everything, correct?'

'Yes'

'So who created evil?' The professor continued, 'If God created everything, then God created evil, since evil exists, and according to the principle that our works define who we are, then God is evil.'

Again, the student has no answer. 'Is there sickness? Immorality? Hatred? Ugliness? All these terrible things, do they exist in this world?'

The student squirms on his feet. 'Yes.'

'So who created them ?'

The student does not answer again, so the professor repeats his question. 'Who created them?' There is still no answer.

Suddenly the lecturer breaks away to pace in front of the classroom. The class is mesmerized. 'Tell me,' he continues onto another student. 'Do you believe in Jesus Christ, son?'

The student's voice betrays him and cracks. 'Yes, professor, I do.'

The old man stops pacing. 'Science says you have five senses you use to identify and observe the world around you. Have you ever seen Jesus?'

'No sir. I've never seen Him.'

'Then tell us if you've ever heard your Jesus?'

'No, sir, I have not.'

'Have you ever felt your Jesus, tasted your Jesus or smelt your Jesus? Have you ever had any sensory perception of Jesus Christ, or God for that matter?'

'No, sir, I'm afraid I haven't.'

'Yet you still believe in him?'

'Yes'
'According to the rules of empirical, testable, demonstrable protocol, science says your God doesn't exist... What do you say to that, son?'

'Nothing,' the student replies.. 'I only have my faith.'

'Yes, faith,' the professor repeats. 'And that is the problem science has with God. There is no evidence, only faith.'

The student stands quietly for a moment, before asking a question of His own. 'Professor, is there such thing as heat? '

' Yes.

'And is there such a thing as cold?'

'Yes, son, there's cold too.'

'No sir, there isn't.'

The professor turns to face the student, obviously interested. The room suddenly becomes very quiet. The student begins to explain. 'You can have lots of heat, even more heat, super-heat, mega-heat, unlimited heat, white heat, a little heat or no heat, but we don't have anything called 'cold'. We can hit down to 458 degrees below zero, which is no heat, but we can't go any further after that. There is no such thing as cold; otherwise we would be able to go colder than the lowest -458 degrees. Every body or object is susceptible to study when it has or transmits energy, and heat is what makes a body or matter have or transmit energy.. Absolute zero (-458 F) is the total absence of heat. You see, sir, cold is only a word we use to describe the absence of heat. We cannot measure cold. Heat we can measure in thermal units because heat is energy. Cold is not the opposite of heat, sir, just the absence of it.'

Silence across the room. A pen drops somewhere in the classroom, sounding like a hammer.

'What about darkness, professor. Is there such a thing as darkness?'

'Yes,' the professor replies without hesitation. 'What is night if it isn't darkness?'

'You're wrong again, sir. Darkness is not something; it is the absence of something. You can have low light, normal light, bright light, flashing light, but if you have no light constantly you have nothing and it's called darkness, isn't it? That's the meaning we use to define the word. In reality, darkness isn't. If it were, you would be able to make darkness darker, wouldn't you?'
The professor begins to smile at the student in front of him. This will be a good semester. 'So what point are you making, young man?'

'Yes, professor. My point is, your philosophical premise is flawed to start with, and so your conclusion must also be flawed.'
The professor's face cannot hide his surprise this time. 'Flawed? Can you explain how?'
'You are working on the premise of duality,' the student explains.. 'You argue that there is life and then there's death; a good God and a bad God. You are viewing the concept of God as something finite, something we can measure. Sir, science can't even explain a thought.' 'It uses electricity and magnetism, but has never seen, much less fully understood either one. To view death as the opposite of life is to be ignorant of the fact that death cannot exist as a substantive thing. Death is not the opposite of life, just the absence of it.' 'Now tell me, professor. Do you teach your students that they evolved from a monkey?'

'If you are referring to the natural evolutionary process, young man, yes, of course I do.'

'Have you ever observed evolution with your own eyes, sir?'

The professor begins to shake his head, still smiling, as he realizes where the argument is going. A very good semester, indeed.

'Since no one has ever observed the process of evolution at work and cannot even prove that this process is an on-going endeavor, are you not teaching your opinion, sir? Are you now not a scientist, but a preacher?'

The class is in uproar. The student remains silent until the commotion has subsided. 'To continue the point you were making earlier to the other student, let me give you an example of what I mean.' The student looks around the room. 'Is there anyone in the class who has ever seen the professor's brain?' The class breaks out into laughter. 'Is there anyone here who has ever heard the professor's brain, felt the professor's brain, touched or smelt the professor's brain? No one appears to have done so.. So, according to the established rules of empirical, stable, demonstrable protocol, science says that you have no brain, with all due respect, sir.' 'So if science says you have no brain, how can we trust your lectures, sir?'

Now the room is silent. The professor just stares at the student, his face unreadable. Finally, after what seems an eternity, the old man answers. 'I Guess you'll have to take them on faith.'

'Now, you accept that there is faith, and, in fact, faith exists with life,' the student continues. 'Now, sir, is there such a thing as evil?' Now uncertain, the professor responds, 'Of course, there is. We see it Everyday. It is in the daily example of man's inhumanity to man. It is in The multitude of crime and violence everywhere in the world.. These manifestations are nothing else but evil.'

To this the student replied, 'Evil does not exist sir, or at least it does not exist unto itself. Evil is simply the absence of God.. It is just like darkness and cold, a word that man has created to describe the absence of God. God did not create evil. Evil is the result of what happens when man does not have God's love present in his heart. It's like the cold that comes when there is no heat or the darkness that comes when there is no light.'
The professor sat down.

If you read it all the way through and had a smile on your face when you finished, mail to your friends and family with the title 'God vs. Science'

PS: The student was Albert Einstein.

Albert Einstein wrote a book titled 'God vs. Science' in 1921.....

Comments

  • elzbthelzbth Posts: 2,075
    Amen!
  • BENTEBENTE Posts: 8,337
    that was actually better than i thought it was going to be ;)

    i hope you are well Pal!!

    happy eggin

    TB

    Anderson S.C.

    "Life is too short to be diplomatic. A man's friends shouldn't mind what he does or says- and those who are not his friends, well, the hell with them. They don't count."

    Tyrus Raymond Cobb

  • Great story, and a great lesson. But, often people try to add credence to things like this by accrediting famous people for the content. In this case, not true.

    http://www.snopes.com/religion/einstein.asp
  • lakemeadlakemead Posts: 76
    who could have our great tweeeeeeeve waco would reply ? great story n post
  • JeffersonianJeffersonian Posts: 4,244
    It rang as apocryphal to me as I read it. Also, Einstein was pretty smart in his field (as I recall, he thought quantum mechanics was bunk...oops), but he was a total idiot outside of it, despite the his popular reputation.
  • BoxerpapaBoxerpapa Posts: 989
    nm
  • Lawn RangerLawn Ranger Posts: 5,466
    Damon:

    I don't care if Chubby was the student,...I like the story.

    Thanks.

    Mike
  • WessBWessB Posts: 6,937
    Very cool Damen..
  • you know what they say about science and religion...

    one is something man made, ostensibly in an attempt to understand the mysteries of life but really in order to control people. and so is the other. ;)
  • JeffersonianJeffersonian Posts: 4,244
    I recently read a review by George Gilder of a book that relied heavily on reason/logic to support its contentions. Gilder was very sympathetic to the author, but noted that Kurt Godel, the Austrian mathemetician/logician showed that even logic and reason ultimately rest on axioms that cannot be proven.

    I found this interesting, and I'm doing some reading on the subject, but it's pretty clear these guys are a lot smarter than I am. I'm going to try to find the Cliff's Notes of the Cliff's Notes, rewritten by Dr. Seuss, so I can understand what it is they're saying.
  • mollysharkmollyshark Posts: 1,519
    Ah, Smokey. Woulda been a good story except for one leeetle quirk. That Jesus part. Uncle Albert was one of the Tribe. Pick another scientist! How about Niels Bohr. Oh..that doesn't work. Feynman? No no..thinking..Franck? von Neumann..this is difficult. Aha. Marie Curie! Except she was agnostic. Well at least she wasn't Jewish! Lemme work on this.

    mShark
  • DreggsDreggs Posts: 147
    Einstein was not alone in having problems reconciling quantum mechanics with relativity.

    "For decades now, physicists have been stymied in their efforts to reconcile Einstein's general theory of relativity, which describes gravity, and quantum mechanics, which describes particles and forces (except gravity) on the smallest scales. The stumbling block lies with their conflicting views of space and time. As seen by quantum theory, space and time are a static backdrop against which particles move . In Einstein's theories, by contrast, not only are space and time inextricably linked, but the resulting space-time is moulded by the bodies within it."

    For the latest hot topic, search for Petr Horava (UC Berkeley).

    If you are really interested, I can send you a little more.
  • WessBWessB Posts: 6,937
    Played right in to the house of cards...LMAO..
  • JeffersonianJeffersonian Posts: 4,244
    Thanks, but my head's already hurting reading about Godel's Incompleteness Theorem. The thing you learn when you read is how absolutely ignorant you really are.
  • HossHoss Posts: 14,600
    Liked!
  • GadflyGadfly Posts: 121
    This.. makes me so uncomfortable. Don't get me wrong. I am not offended at all, usually I am the one who offends!

    A lot of nice people on this board. Unfortunately I feel any response other than agreeing with hive and saying nice thing about a made up self-serving "argument" will offend just about everybody here.

    And come on, attributed to Einstein from all people? He did not believe in a personal god –i.e. an all-knowing entity that created and cares for individuals-, and was shunned by many religious leaders in his time. Just a year ago his letters that made it quite clear he was really an atheist were published by MSN. So get over it. If you (you= the writer of this story) think you have a strong argument, just present it as your own. The need to attribute these made up stories to Einstein to give the arguments some credibility is childish and reeks of preemptive defense against anybody that want to poke hole in it.

    It is also funny how straw man arguments work. Just attributes what you please to the other side and then refute it.

    See, I told you I will be offending people.

    Peace.
  • well said, gadfly.

    and when all else fails, simply say "it was just a story..."
  • As near as I can tell, Einstein never wrote a book titled "God vs. Science."
    The Naked Whiz
  • Little StevenLittle Steven Posts: 28,817
    Didn't Saint Thomas Aquinas make a similar post a year or so ago? :laugh:

    Steve 

    Caledon, ON

     

  • What is the problem with Snopes? It is considered to be a fairly objective source of information debunking and confirming urban legends. It's pretty clear that this story never happened, regardless of what one might think of the arguments presented in the story.
    The Naked Whiz
  • RipnemRipnem Posts: 5,511
    Ya, but someone got punched! No? :ohmy:
  • FidelFidel Posts: 10,172
    There is a floating internet rumor that snopes is owned by some extreme left-wing liberal that is "in the tank" for Obama and all the information there is tainted.

    Bunch of horse squeeze if you ask me. I generally find snopes to contain fact-based information.

    This is the floating email rumor:

    "Just FYI guys. I have been wanting to send you all some information on Snopes.com for a while and I will get around to that soon.
    I have recently discovered that Snopes.com is owned by a flaming liberal and this man is in the tank for Obama. There are many things they have listed on their site as a hoax and yet you can go to Youtube yourself and find the video of Obama actually saying these things. So you see, you cannot and should not trust Snopes.com....ever for anything that remotely resembles truth! I don't even trust them to tell me if email chains are hoaxes anymore.
    A few conservative speakers on Myspace told me about snopes.com a few months ago and I took it upon myself to do a little research to find out if it was true. Well, I found out for myself that it is true. This website is backing Obama and is covering up for him. They will say anything that makes him look bad is a hoax and they also tell lies on the other side about McCain and Palin.
    I realize that our cousin Mark said to check that website out but I wanted to give you all a heads up about it. I'm not sure where his loyalties lie politically but I have had my doubts about him being a conservative for a long time now. I love him anyway but I think he may lean the other way these days. I just have a feeling from some of the conversations we've had.
    Anyway just FYI please don't use Snopes.com anymore for fact checking and make your friends aware of their political leanings as well. Many people still think Snopes.com is neutral and they can be trusted as factual. We need to make sure everyone is aware that that is a hoax in itself."
  • Sigh. I suppose nothing should surprise me.
    The Naked Whiz
  • JeffersonianJeffersonian Posts: 4,244
    I have to say that I've seen (but I can't recall about what, exactly) Snopes "debunk" a couple of things that I thought they did a pretty shaky job of. I don't know if it was about Obama or not, but I remember reading their take on things and thinking it was pretty weak.

    About issues of hard fact, though, I think they're pretty reliable.
  • incredibly sophisticated conspiracy they have going. in their effort to tilt things towards Obama, they can't go overboard, so they also debunk falsehoods about Bush/Cheney et al., too (see HERE for example). I guess maybe they have some sort of running balance where 'They' keep Obama myths ahead by a +1 count.
  • why surprised? when you can't refute something, you attack the source. oldest trick in the book.
  • Village IdiotVillage Idiot Posts: 6,958
    st!ke wrote:
    why surprised? when you can't refute something, you attack the source. oldest trick in the book.

    It's called argumentum ad hominem, and by saying it in Latin, it destroys the detractor. :laugh: :laugh:
    __________________________________________

    Dripping Springs, Texas.
    Just west of Austintatious


  • FidelFidel Posts: 10,172
    I thought the Mongolian reversal was the oldest trick in the book.

    hmm....learn something every day.
  • I'm wonderin...
    would the story have been as popular if the professor had said "Allah" instead of "God" (And left out the Jesus part)

    Would the Marine or SEAL Punch the professor out in the similar story?

    I think that would have made a more interesting story. Certainly not what we (Westerners)would expect.

    Not tryin' to whack the hive, just sayin....
Sign In or Register to comment.
Click here for Forum Use Guidelines.