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Raised grid hardware question....

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  • NoVA Bill
    NoVA Bill Posts: 3,005
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    Jag,

    Pretty strong statements - and logically if welding temp is required to generate fumes then WGAS (sales term = Who Gives A $hit). I was going to research this a bit more but the standards doc referred to is subscription based access - I'm not doing a free trial as I don't want all the spam that would follow.

    It would be great to put this issue to bed so if you or FlashBob have any document to share PLEASE do so.

    Thanks for your input.
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  • PhilsGrill
    PhilsGrill Posts: 2,256
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    But what about the temperature that galvanized steel will peel off the zinc coating at only 392 degrees? Egg always get over that tempurature.

    From Wikipedia... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galvanized_steel

    The process of hot-dip galvanizing results in a metallurgical bond between zinc and steel with a series of distinct iron-zinc alloys. The resulting coated steel can be used in much the same way as uncoated. Galvanized steel can be welded; however, one must exercise caution around the resulting zinc fumes. Galvanized steel is suitable for high-temperature applications of up to 392 °F (200 °C). Use at temperatures above this level will result in peeling of the zinc at the intermetallic layer.
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  • PhilsGrill
    PhilsGrill Posts: 2,256
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    See my statement above... I take PayPal.
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  • Unknown
    Unknown
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    every dog has its day, bob-O.
    hahaha

    haven't met up at fred's. what's yer schedule?
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  • jagweed
    jagweed Posts: 188
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    it isn't dangerous, it can't kill you... that's my point.

    the fumes occur when welding, not when it peels off.

    to reiterate this a thousandth time: even if fumes occurred (and they can't), the CO fumes that come out of your egg which ARE deadly (galvy fumes are not) come out of it every single time you use it. you do not jam your head over the egg and breathe them in, and so you do not die from it. even if you inhaled galvy fumes directly, you would not have a serious health risk. it is SAFE to inhale galvanized welding fumes. they cannot kill you. CO can

    please explain how you've proved that galvanized metal is dangerous to use in the egg because of fumes, and that fumes are deadly

    galvanized parts and burners are common in (lower end) propane grills.



    it's an urban myth based (as i said) in truth. and those are the hardest myths to dislodge.
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  • PhilsGrill
    PhilsGrill Posts: 2,256
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    Understand, but what about the food the fumes cook into??? It's the same as smoke, so into the food it goes. That is what folks are worried about.
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  • jagweed
    jagweed Posts: 188
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    GALVANIZED METAL FUMES ARE NOT POSSIBLE IN THE EG, especially at any of our normal cooking temps. you'd need to bury them in the lump, and stoke the thing like a blast furnace to vaporize the galvanized coating.

    your point was that galvanized coatings could come off (not vaporize) at close to 400 degrees.

    they do not vaporize at these temperatures, and do not get into the food, which is the frequent assertion here. galvanized burners are common in (admittedly, lower end) propane grills.

    and i'll say again for the thousandth time... glavanized fumes, even if they were possible in the egg, are not dangerous.

    you know what IS dangerous? hexavalent chromium, commonly found in many types of stainless steel

    if you are worried about metal and fumes, it is no safer to use stainless, and is in fact WORSE than galvy. another aspect I was asking someone to prove false but which has never been addressed by the galvy-fearers. not all stainless is created equal, and hexavalent chromium is one of the most famous and dangerous pollutants there is...

    it is not logical to assume stainless is safer than any other metal. what alloy of stainless is it, for example?

    but still the entire discussion is moot. we don't reach the required temps when cooking in the egg
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  • jagweed
    jagweed Posts: 188
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    i'm not making a "claim" though. i shouldn't have to prove that the earth is round.

    extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof. so if someone is claiming that galvy off-gasses and will kill everyone in the tri-state area, let's see actual evidence.

    i'll ask the rhetorical question... can anyone tell me why stainless is safer? which alloy are the bolts made from? why is it taken for granted that a fistful of stainless bolts with possible mill coatings or solvent residue on them are safer than galvanized bolts?

    i'm not making claims. i am saying that those who assert that galvy is dangerous are the ones making claims. and incorrect ones, at that.

    and then... just to step way back... i'll be devil's advocate. let's say that metal-X released cyanide at welding temps. why is it unsafe in the egg?
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  • jagweed
    jagweed Posts: 188
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    i know you have an opinion on stainless.

    hahaha

    stainless is perfectly safe to use in the egg. i don't know if you have read any of what i wrote, but anyone thinking i'm saying stainless is dangerous would be incorrect.

    FWIW, i have a stainless grid of yours for the large, and the thing is as good as gold, frankly.

    you should know my point has never been that stainless is dangerous. i'm just being hyperbolic, and saying that IF galvy reached fume temps, it would also mean that the stainless would, and stainless welding fumes are far more dangerous than galvanized. you are living proof that welding stainless needn't be dangerous....
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  • fishlessman
    fishlessman Posts: 32,754
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    jagweed, maybe this will help

    to get fumes from zinc you need to boil it, it boils at 1664.6 degrees F. funny thing about zinc is its water soluable and your body flushes it out fairly quickly. if you do inhale a good amount, it you get sick but it goes away in a few hours. now stainless fumes buid up in the body and really are dangerous over time and you dont get that origional sick feeling.
    http://www.espi-metals.com/msds's/zinc.pdf

    but since theres no stike now, we can only assume this theory isnt right. someone will have to prove stikes alive after breathing zink fumes or you owe me a hundred bucks :laugh:
    fukahwee maine

    you can lead a fish to water but you can not make him drink it
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  • PhilsGrill
    PhilsGrill Posts: 2,256
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    > I'll be devil's advocate. let's say that metal-X released cyanide at welding temps. why is it unsafe in the egg?

    Because if it fell in the lump which produces 1500 degrees that is welding temps, right? :whistle:

    Playing double devils advocate....
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  • jagweed
    jagweed Posts: 188
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    hahaha
    hey. you jumped on my cas a long time ago about this issue and were originally in the "galvy will kill you" camp!
    hahaha

    i think you said you had the sickness even.

    frankly, it was all news to me, i would have bet that galvy was worse than stainless etc. but it just seemed the whole "don't used galvanzied bolts or you'll die" thing was a bit too much. you know. a guy i met at a barbecue competition told me...


    so i looked into it, and i found lots of REAL information. never EVER found a source supporting the idea that galvanized metal could 1.0 off-gas in a grill or 2.) cause you any harm even if somehow it did.

    i guess i find the whole concept of "better safe than sorry" to often be a cop out. sometimes, when someone says "better safe than sorry", they really mean "i don't have the time or patience to learn about this for myself, and i really just need a simple answer so i can tell my wife it's ok or not..."
    hahaha
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  • PhilsGrill
    PhilsGrill Posts: 2,256
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    Ok, ok... fine :blush: but what if the galvanized coating comes off and falls in my food?

    I'm still jackin' with ya... :whistle:

    But folks just are not going with the science of things. I know as a retired computer engineer too.
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  • jagweed
    jagweed Posts: 188
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    no. tell me what the welding temp of Metal-X is ..

    seriously.
    your lump isn't hot enough to vaporize metal.

    did you read where i said that galvanized steel is a common component in propane grills, usually the "portable" kind?

    there is no information out there other than in internet barbecue forums that says galvanized metal is a safety issue due to fumes.

    you'd have better logic on your side if you said that galvanized could be toxic if it were in contact with highly acidic food for a long time. but no one has even been curious enough to even find that simple truth.

    but as for fumes... there's no truth to it
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  • fishlessman
    fishlessman Posts: 32,754
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    i really doubt i was ever in the galvy can kill you camp, we weld on it all the time. drinking milk usually keeps you from getting the sick feeling. osha though is really starting to come down on stainless shops. they really dont have much proof, but the regulations are getting more difficult. they dont want you welding or even grinding on stainless without proper venting and aircleaning in place. welders dont die from this stuff anyways, ive told you about the stack of obits on the wall in the breakroom, its mostly their lifestyle catching up with them that kills them. :whistle:
    fukahwee maine

    you can lead a fish to water but you can not make him drink it
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  • fieroguy
    fieroguy Posts: 777
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    While it is probably true that neither galvy or SS can be harmful, why not simply use mild steel nuts, bolts and washers? The are cheaper (and costs less, too).
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  • PhilsGrill
    PhilsGrill Posts: 2,256
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    Zinc melts at about 900°F and vaporizes at about 1650°F.

    That's all I know for now...
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  • [Deleted User]
    [Deleted User] Posts: 0
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    I love these threads!

    I like to get some popcorn and settle in for the ensuing discourse!

    "...but Mr Columbus, I'm not saying that the world isn't round, I'm just saying that I have it on good authority that if we sail off the edge it will kill us all! Let's play it safe and stay here in Europe. Europe's nice, why risk it?"
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  • troutman
    troutman Posts: 498
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    I wish I knew enough about anything to ask a question like that. That was a great question, sort of like do you prefer the Democrats to the Republicans? Fun to watch.
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  • jagweed
    jagweed Posts: 188
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    thank you....

    only sane voice (and that includes me) in this discussion.
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  • NoVA Bill
    NoVA Bill Posts: 3,005
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    Just so we can keep the discussion going, how about describing why mild steel over the other options? I'd profer a guess and say because it's not treated?? I'm trying to be part of the sanity crowd, honest. ;)
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  • JB
    JB Posts: 510
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    Found this on periodic table.com

    On the basis of these facts, I am absolutely convinced, as are a number of expert chemists, metallurgists, and foundry men I've consulted, that melting pure zinc or alloys containing zinc (but not any lead) that melt at or below about 450C, represents no health hazard from inhalation of zinc fumes. Yes, you can definitely burn yourself really badly if you spill it, but that is the extent of what you have to worry about.

    http://www.periodictable.com/ZincSafety.html
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  • fieroguy
    fieroguy Posts: 777
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    Zinc plated mild steel becomes 'galvanized'.
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  • NoVA Bill
    NoVA Bill Posts: 3,005
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    Got it thanks, did some reading on it also.
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