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pizza dough experts - HELP!

JazzmanJazzman Posts: 62
edited 6:49PM in EggHead Forum
I followed a link from this forum to a pizza-making website. I'm in search of a good deep dish Lou Malnati's style recipe. After looking through the forum, I found a recipe that claimed to be very close to Malnati's,(and got good reviews from others on the forum) but I can't decipher the recipe. It is:

100% All Purp Flour
45% Water
19% Corn Oil
4% Olive Oil
.75% ADY

I understand the percentages in concept, but can't really figure out how to get it to cups, tablespoons, etc. Can any of you help?

Comments

  • ab ovoab ovo Posts: 67
    What is ADY?
  • PhilsGrillPhilsGrill Posts: 2,256
    Active Dry Yeast...
  • ab ovoab ovo Posts: 67
    Ahhh. Thanks.
  • ombaomba Posts: 241
    Jazzman,

    I am no expert, but ...

    The 100% flour as a ratio makes no sense to me. I assume that means to use only AP flour.
    As for the other numbers ...

    Go here http://www.pizzamaking.com/dough_calculator.html

    Plug in those percentages.
    Water is hydration.
    I am not sure that this will answer your question, but it will definitely get you started.

    That forum BTW has some GREAT information.

    Sorry I can't help more,
    Peter
  • FidelFidel Posts: 10,172
    This is a recipe very close to Malnati's (originally posted by Large Marge). I am not crazy about it, but it does work. I am not a big fan of the corn meal in this dough:

    1 tbs sugar
    1 cup warm (110-115 F) water
    1 envelope active dry yeast
    2 1/4 cups bread flour
    1 cup yellow cornmeal
    1 tsp salt
    1/3 cup EVOO

    Dissolve sugar in the warm tap water and then sprinkle the yeast and stir (water that is too hot will kill it, too cold and it won't activate). Wait 3-5 minutes and ensure a beige foam is forming. I use a kitchen aid mixer- combine 2 cups of the flour and cornmeal in the mixing bowl, then add the yeast mixture, salt, and oil. Attach flat beater and mix about 1 minute. Replace with dough hook and continue mixing and kneading about 5 minutes. Use the remaining 1/4 cup flour if needed, to get the dough ball kneaded to a smooth, elastic consistency- not too sticky!

    After kneading shape dough into a ball, coat the bowl with olive oil and coat all sides of the dough, cover bowl with wrap and allow to double in bulk in a warm area. Punch down as soon as it has doubled, shape back into a ball and we're ready.

    My attempt looked like this:

    Raw800.jpg


    Done800.jpg




    An Alternate that I used is located here: http://www.pizzamaking.com/papadels.php

    This turned out a very nice pizza.

    Cooling1.jpg

    Cooling2.jpg

    Sliced1.jpg
  • Jazzman wrote:
    I followed a link from this forum to a pizza-making website. I'm in search of a good deep dish Lou Malnati's style recipe. After looking through the forum, I found a recipe that claimed to be very close to Malnati's,(and got good reviews from others on the forum) but I can't decipher the recipe. It is:

    100% All Purp Flour
    45% Water
    19% Corn Oil
    4% Olive Oil
    .75% ADY

    I understand the percentages in concept, but can't really figure out how to get it to cups, tablespoons, etc. Can any of you help?

    The only thing I can offer would be to simplify it. Start out with 1 cup of flour, that becomes your benchmark. You would then need .45 cups water, .19 cups corn oil, .04 cups olive oil and .0075 cups ADY and work your calculations from there.

    I would convert to mL
    1 cup=240 mL so;
    you would need 240 mL flour, 108 mL Water, 45 mL corn oil, 10 mL olive oil, 2 ml ADY

    I think...
  • omba,

    thanks - that calculator is just what I needed! I'll let you know how it comes out (with pictures, of course)!
  • mkcmkc Posts: 540
    omba wrote:

    Go here http://www.pizzamaking.com/dough_calculator.html

    Plug in those percentages.
    Water is hydration.
    I am not sure that this will answer your question, but it will definitely get you started.

    Peter

    Yes, the recipe is in bakers' percentages which is by weight, and makes use of the Lehman calculator so you can resize for different pan sizes and depths. I *think* the way it works is 100% for flour just means for a given flour weight, use 45% of that weight in water, 19% of the flour weight in corn oil, 4% of the flour weight in olive oil, etc. That way, you can scale up and down for different sizes keeping the ingredient proportions the same. Bakers' percentages are used because weighing flour is much more reliable for baked good recipes than measuring by volume (because of different flour scooping "techniques").

    I tried the Malnati clone that BTB posted on pizzamaking.com - the one with 25% of the flour weight as semolina flour. Very tasty!
    Egging in Denton, Texas
  • What size pan is that? When I made this recipe the only pan I had was a 17" cake pan. With that much dough it came out very doughy. I'm thinking about either cutting back on the ingredients or make two smaller pies, maybe 2 twelve inch pies.

    What's your thoughts?
  • AZRPAZRP Posts: 10,116
    I'd substitute semolina for the corn meal, think it would be much tastier. -RP
  • BobSBobS Posts: 2,485
    Jazzman wrote:
    I followed a link from this forum to a pizza-making website. I'm in search of a good deep dish Lou Malnati's style recipe. After looking through the forum, I found a recipe that claimed to be very close to Malnati's,(and got good reviews from others on the forum) but I can't decipher the recipe. It is:

    100% All Purp Flour
    45% Water
    19% Corn Oil
    4% Olive Oil
    .75% ADY

    I understand the percentages in concept, but can't really figure out how to get it to cups, tablespoons, etc. Can any of you help?


    This recipe is based on weights and allows you to make the recipe any size batch.

    You start with a known weight of flour (say 1 pound, which is approximately 4 cups). This is 100% and the basis for the other ingredients.

    To this you add 0.45 pound water (45% X 1 pound of flour). Water weighs 8.33 pounds per gallon (16 cups), so each cup weighs almost exactly 0.5 pounds.
    This is a fairly low hydration rate. I am going to test 60% next.

    I do not have data to calculate a difference between olive oil and veg oil, but they will be very close.

    Olive oil has a weight of approx. 91.5% of water. In our example 19% oil would be .19 pound and this calculates to 6.38 tablespoons (call it 6 1/2 Tbs).

    4% olive oil would be 4 teaspoon.

    I do not have data to calculate the yeast, but I would use one package for normal times to rise (say one hour for the first rise.

    If you really get into cooking, it is actually good to use a scale.

    Good luck.
  • FidelFidel Posts: 10,172
    My pan is 14" and it makes a nice sized pie. I wouldn't be upset if my pan was 12" to be honest.
  • FidelFidel Posts: 10,172
    I have to agree with than Randy.

    I can't seem to get my hands on any here at the main stream grocers. I don't think about it when I go to Whole Foods of Fresh Market.
  • Bobby-QBobby-Q Posts: 1,993
    That recipe is fairly close. I'm working on improving that one in my spare time, which means not much getting done. Their are some dough additives I am trying to find that will help to give it a more realistic taste.

    When I get it done I'll post the results...it might be months but I'll get it done.

    Definitely order some 6 in 1 tomatoes or you will never get close to Chicago deep dish.
  • Bobby-QBobby-Q Posts: 1,993
    For these recipes you need to use the calculator they provide on the site. You're close but you need to convert to grams. Baking and in particular pizza and even more particular Chicago deep dish dough is very precise.

    You wouldn't think it, but it takes a lot less precision to make pate choux or brioche than it does to make deep dish biscuit like pizza dough.
  • PWisePWise Posts: 1,173
    I assume its the Baker's Percentage method...

    you take the flour as a whole (100%) and everything else as a percentage of that whole by mass...

    Forget about cups and spoons... mass is the only way to measure things correctly... get a good scale...

    cheers
  • PWisePWise Posts: 1,173
    you can't just convert to ml from cups, because each ingredient has a different mass (weight by volume)... you should always do it by mass to get it right everytime... especially when using baker's percentage method...

    cheers
  • PWisePWise Posts: 1,173
    ditto...

    always use grams and a good scale....

    cheers
  • PWise wrote:
    you can't just convert to ml from cups, because each ingredient has a different mass (weight by volume)... you should always do it by mass to get it right everytime... especially when using baker's percentage method...

    cheers

    Weight is definitely the most accurate way but I was assuming that he doesn't have an adequate scale for that and trying to offer a method that he could try on the spot. I think if you tested my suggestion of using mL you could get pretty close. Take good notes, make slight adjustments and get it right pretty quickly.
  • PWisePWise Posts: 1,173
    well, that's also correct... it's just that some type of doughs need to be sooo acurate for consistent results that trial and error might be really hard work hehehe...

    I personally try to avoid having to measure in cups and spoons (at least for bakery) and try to do always in grams... I find it works best...

    just my humble opinion....
    cheers!
  • BobSBobS Posts: 2,485
    PWise wrote:
    you can't just convert to ml from cups, because each ingredient has a different mass (weight by volume)... you should always do it by mass to get it right everytime... especially when using baker's percentage method...

    cheers

    You can convert from ml to cups, because both are volume measurements. Except for water (1 gram = 1 ml), you cannot convert from grams to cups, because, as you said, each ingredient has a different weight by volume.

    Many scales have a switch to change between grams and pounds, so there is no fundamental advantage with one unit or another. 1 oz = 28.4 grams

    If you are going to weigh your ingredients, you are going for improved accuracy in the measurement, so you want a scale that can deleiver what you want.

    Mine is only good for +/- 5 grams, but it goes to 11 pounds and can be tared 7 or 8 times, so it is easy to add new ingredients to the same bowl.
  • PWisePWise Posts: 1,173
    I stand corrected, I didn't explain myself correctly, I assumed it was being taken as if 1 ml =1 g (as is the case with water) with every other ingredient and thus taken volume proportions to satisfy a weight percentage recipe....

    cheers!
  • BobSBobS Posts: 2,485
    PWise wrote:
    I stand corrected, I didn't explain myself correctly, I assumed it was being taken as if 1 ml =1 g (as is the case with water) with every other ingredient and thus taken volume proportions to satisfy a weight percentage recipe....

    cheers!

    Well said! There are a lot of people that are still not comfortable with the metric system and I did not want folks to think that they had to work in grams to make the system work.
  • PWisePWise Posts: 1,173
    I agree.... B)

    cheers!
  • Little ChefLittle Chef Posts: 4,725
    Forget all the math and conversions....here is a link which provides Malnati's recipe in plain english. Haven't made it yet, but seems to be coming straight from the source! Thanks again food network!

    http://www.foodnetwork.com/food/recipes/recipe/0,1977,FOOD_9936_21809,00.html

    Hope this helps! Good luck!

    Michelle
    Hollywood, FL
  • FidelFidel Posts: 10,172
    Thanks for the tip Bobby. I had read that somewhere before.

    I just ordered 12 cans, shipping included, for $33.00 direct from the source.
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