Reversing the Firebox - A Review

gwopy · September 2008

So, for the last few weeks, I've been cooking on a reversed firebox. So, the main air intake on the firebox is 180 degrees opposite the air intake on the shell.

Motivations:
I noticed that, no matter how I arranged the charcoal or lit it, the coal burn would migrate towards the back of the firebox, away from the main air intake. This would result, while cooking at low temperatures, in the fire going out while almost an entire half of the firebox is still filled with charcoal.

Results:
Outstanding. I've been able to cook longer at lower temperatures. The "coal burn" or ember grouping stays in and migrates out from the center more easily, even at very low temperatures. I would highly recommend trying it and posting your results.

Note:
If it is your "expert" opinion that, with the firebox reversed, the air will simply exit up around the firebox and ring, YOU ARE WRONG. The convection airflow forces air up through the coals. Areas outside the firebox and ring are insulated from the direct heat of the coals. Whoever posted that assertion on the thread where I first proposed this method is certainly not very intelligent.

milesofsmiles · September 2008

I believe your test results. Very well done. OOOO stomping on toes---sorry not cool . " Not very intell." OUCH. Glad it was not this Tennessee Hill Boy. Miles out O h thanks for your research.

Fidel · September 2008

Wow, not very condescending tonight, are we?

Probably good information, but you probably could have been a but less confrontational. People can be incorrect and still be highly intelligent - perhaps misinformed or drawing incorrect conclusions, but intelligent nonetheless.

RRP · September 2008

hmmm, I never saw your initial post(s) so don't lay any thing on me...but I have to ask how do you easily clean out your ash build up? I mean with it at 180° from the vent then you must remove the unspent lump even to see what capacity you still have under the fire grate. OTOH if that is full - which I assume it is - that means your ability to maintain lower temps is due to the restricted air flow which is only coming from the holes in the fire box. No offense, man, but I control my temps quite well using the draft door. And yes, I'm an old fart who wears the bill of my hat in front!

gwopy · September 2008

Why do people assert opinions that they have absolutely no supporting evidence for? I have no idea why those people do it, but they need to be called on it. If people read this forum, looking for reliable information, then it's beneficial not to have people spouting out half-thought-out assertions.

gwopy · September 2008

I have to wait until it's cooled, but I stick my fingers in the small-hole air inlet and spin the thing around. It's pretty easy.

Fidel · September 2008

Correcting bad information should be encouraged and applauded - if done in a polite and respectful manner.

All of us are here to share and learn from one another. Negative attitudes, name calling, and condescension are uncalled for and unwelcome in my opinion.

I am guilty of pointing out errors when people post information that is incorrect or misleading, but I never (at least try not to) embarrass or belittle anyone in the process.

RRP · September 2008

but why? the air flow is easily controlled by the draft door and can be as tiny or as wide as it can be. PS this will be my last post on this thread.

gwopy · September 2008

If all people with the bill of their hat in front would notice, the focus of the post wasn't actually about maintaining low temperature. The problem was that the coal-burn would move to the back of the Egg, leaving coals at the front unburned.

My solution before reversing the firebox was to stir the coals every few hours. Now, I can do a roast cook without so much as opening the dome.

FlaPoolman · September 2008

Sorry but your original post seemed to say I'm better not hey give this a try because it worked for me. A lot of ways to do a lot of different things with the same results and if yours works for you thats great but I have to agree with Fidel and RRP. RRP because I can control my egg the same way and Fidel with the polite way he explained it. Glad the hard way worked for you.

gwopy · September 2008

My guess is that the convection current(s) within the Egg are actually quite isolated when there is an unobstructed path through the egg.

Denying the air a direct path from the intake, through the fire and out the top might actually be forcing the constant and continual changing the primary convection current through the Egg. If this is the case, it would decrease the possibility of the burn being forced a certain way within the firebox due to a constant convection current.

RRP · September 2008

I never - I mean NEVER stir the coals during ANY cook - even the ones going for 20 hours! Maybe we ought to get back to some basic questions like are you using lump and not briquettes, you do have a draft door don't you? you do have a Daisy on your dome, don't you? Hey, guy, I'm trying to help you, but with the thousands of ceramic cookers in this world - regardless of the maker - something just isn't adding up with your stated problem/solution.

Little Steven · September 2008

When I read your first post, I thought it made a little sense. That is, with a perfectly clean egg for one cook and one cook only. The reason for this is that you will be so full of ash that you will choke your fire. Over the years there have been a lot of folk on this forum that don't respect the cumulative expertise that is gathered here. Your idea is ok at best but your attitude isn't.

Steve

BENTE · September 2008

this thread makes me :ohmy:

Turkey, Breast, Herb, Roasted, Christmas, Lost in Utah

I am not a fan of low and slow cooking. I believe time is better spent with friends and family socializing and eating, not thinking about and watching your food cook. That said, I have always tried to find a way to speed up my cooks, while still maintaining a healthy and tasty dish. You might be thinking Rachael Ray; however I have been doing this way before Rachael developed her 30 minutes meals.

So here is my Christmas turkey breast that got rave revues. Sorry did not have time to photograph and Photoshop the dish. To busy socializing and eating.

INGREDIENTS:
1 6 Lbs Bone-in turkey breast, halved, skin removed
2 Tbs olive oil
4 Cloves garlic, crushed
2 tsp chopped fresh sage leaves, or 1 teaspoon dried
2 tsp chopped fresh thyme leaves, or 1 teaspoon dried
2 tsp chopped fresh rosemary leaves, or 1 teaspoon dried
NOTE:
I use the above herbs because I buy them in a “poultry bouquet” I like to save money too.
1 tsp salt
1/2 tsp freshly ground black pepper

Procedure:
1 Heat the Egg to 400 degrees F dome.
2 Rinse the turkey breast and pat dry.
3 In a small bowl combine the oil, garlic, herbs, salt and pepper and rub the mixture into the turkey breast.
4 Transfer to a roasting pan and roast until the juices run clear when pierced with fork and a thermometer inserted into thickest part of turkey registers 170 degrees F, 1 to 1 1/4 hours.
5 Let rest, covered with foil, for 10 minutes before carving.
6 PS. I am currently developing a way to convert low and slow BBQ smoking to my fast, high heat method.

Recipe Type
Main Dish, Poultry

Recipe Source
Source: BGE Forum, Lost in Utah, 12/25/07

Note: I use the above herbs because I can buy them in what is call a “poultry bouquet” I like to save

i am going to watch "No Country For Old Men" for the first time

sometimes these types of threads bore the sh!t out of me

Little Steven · September 2008

Terry,

I forgot all about him.

LMAO

Steve

stike · September 2008

he was over at the ceramic forum, and since ray basso b!tch slapped him, LIU is one contrite and polite little dude.

Little Steven · September 2008

He wasn't all that bad. Sort of easy to provoke though.

Steve

RRP · September 2008

LOL, Jeff - **** slapped is one of my favorite terms. Being a retired fart, my wife and I walk 2 miles every day and one house we pass by coming and going has their doubled door garage open to show the expoxed floor, perfect walls, etc etc.

Grandpas Grub · September 2008

I have to agree with Fidel, RRP and some others...

I guess using a vacuum to clean the ash out would solve the clean out problem.

Rotating the fire box and ring around while inside the egg is eventually going to wear on the ceramic base and or the bottom of the fire ring. These ceramic will wear somewhat easily.

Your having to stir or reload is odd and shouldn't have to be done. Reloading might be needed if there was not enough lump put in the egg in the first place. On a large 20 to 30 hours of lower temp heat is a walk in the park for the egg.

It would be interesting to see why you are experiencing the need to stir.

Your comment "The convection airflow forces air up through the coals. Areas outside the firebox and ring are insulated from the direct heat of the coals."

If you are asserting that 'all the air' is drawn into the lump you are quite wrong.

The burning lump will draw air. The air vent hole is much smaller that the amount of air that can travel outside the vent hole and up around the fire box and fire ring.

The fire box holes will also draw some as long as they are not plugged. We know this as there was a change in the holes in the fire box at some point in time. Some fire boxes have holes closer to the base of the fire box and other fire boxes have vent hold higher up the fire box.

However, those holes are small and do not catch all the outside fire box available air.

When the air is heated while passing though the burning lump it again follows the path of least resistance - up through the vent. That heated air once it passes above the fire ring will also draw fresh air up around the outside of the fire box & ring.

You can verify this your self rather quickly. Clean and load your egg. Light however you want. Once lit, record the heating up process every minute and record the dome temp. Note how long it takes for the white smoke to hit, note how long it takes for the initial starter heat to die out and the lump to produce it's own heat and how long it takes to reach max temp. Of course you will also have the max temp that can be produced.

Now on the next lighting snugly plug gap on the outside of the fire ring. NO GAPS whatsoever.

By doing the plugging you will absolutely know all available air will have to pass through the bottom fire box holes, opening and side holes and possibly a little between the fire box and fire ring. Oh yes, bottom vent & screen wide open and no DFMT on the dome.

On my medium following that exact procedure produced the following results.

Not plugged.

32 minutes to reach 420°
79 minutes to reach max temp of 540°.

Now for the gap plugged.

Egg cleaned out, same lump and pretty much the same size & quantity lump.

9 minutes 400°
20 minutes 700°

The result are clear. Forcing every bit of available air into the fire box resulted in:

23 minute saving of time to get to cooking temp.
59 (almost an hour) quicker getting to the maximum temperature.

That is a huge difference. My not so intelligent assertion is that not all the air goes into the fire box.

Not all of that circulating air is drawn into the lump for feeding the burn.

I am not sure about other folks but when I post something it is intended to help forum members. By all means I don't have all the answers and I welcome comments. There are a lot of different ways to look at something. The more input the more good information will come out.

GG

Firestarter21 · September 2008

Well said GG and others. I am amazed by someone who gets on a soap box and beats there chest about the conclusions they have come to and close their mind to other possibilities. Not only regarding the egg, but any time in life.

Stanley · September 2008

I have to side with Aretha on this one: R-E-S-P-E-C-T.

BENTE · September 2008

how is that possible????

however mad he made everyone... i was one of those people that would have rather watched what happened around here.. when he was on a rant.. than watch the most popular tv show (besides football)... he was one of the funniest people i seen around here... not because he made eeeeveryone mad... but how he did it..

besides if it were not for him we would not have the forum we have now.... i am not sure but... i think he made the forum a better (and moreACCOUNTABLE)place to spend your time...

so how can you forget him

PedroWuzHere · September 2008

While I am always one to appreciate ingenuity & novel approaches, you sir really haven't taken the right tact here. Documentation of research & proper presentation of such would be much friendlier approach...
Trolls or internet bullies really don't seem to be well received on this site. I'm sure you had the best of intentions (giving you the benefit of doubt).

BENTE · September 2008

if there is a possibility that you can email me the link to that thread i will thank you

several times over

UGAVET · September 2008

thats why its called an opinion (A belief or conclusion held with confidence but not substantiated by positive knowledge or proof). Hurray for you that you figured something out on your own. Next time do the same thing without asking a question or proposing some theory

gwopy · September 2008

Hmmm, I guess alot can happen while a brisket is cooking.

Anyway, the original hypothetical thread in from this forum should be pretty easy to find if you're fairly familiar with "the google" and "the intertubes" that transfer pretty picture around the earth...or "across" the earth if the other concept frightens you.

I'll also add that turning the firebox+ring doesn't scrape the ceramic, as some have seemed to think that it must. Unless you're really drunk or "wear the bill of your cap facing forward" (whatever that means) or there are still burning embers in the firebox, it's really easy to just throw your fingers in two of the air holes and spin the thing around...without scraping the ceramic.

I've just considered another reason for the asymmetrical burning of my coals. It's possible that the Egg isn't properly leveled, which might be likely given my deck.

So, to help continue the discussion...you're all stupid! Everyone happy now? I'm a bad guy and you can all sleep well tonight. Your world makes sense, and you're welcome.

...have a good cook this weekend.

p.s. The person who supposed that the air would just escape up the sides between the shell and the firebox+ring still isn't very intelligent. It took me about 60sec of thinking to discover that it was an utterly bogus concept. So, I wondered for a while why someone would assert something so surely that had no basis in reality. I still can't come up with a reason. What can I say? Willful ignorance frustrates me. Anyone who would make that claim is clearly just making things up/pulling things out of their a&^/not intelligent. There's not really another explanation.

gwopy · September 2008

UGAVET wrote:

thats why its called an opinion (A belief or conclusion held with confidence but not substantiated by positive knowledge or proof). Hurray for you that you figured something out on your own. Next time do the same thing without asking a question or proposing some theory

No, thank you. I don't believe I will do that. Despite the small amount of nonsense that I note and that some people seemed to focus upon, most people on this forum give very useful advice.

In any case, there's no need to cheer next time.

Grandpas Grub · September 2008

"p.s. The person who supposed that the air would just escape up the sides between the shell and the firebox+ring still isn't very intelligent."

Well then, you sure are a hell of a lot smarter than me, my friend.

Quote "What can I say? Willful ignorance frustrates me."

You must piss yourself off a lot.

I guess there is something to the saying you can lead a jack ass to the cliff but you can't make him jump.

GG

Buxwheat · September 2008

Just found this thread and figured I would add a few thoughts. I have a Jotul woodstove that puts out a tremendous amount of heat. While researching woodstoves, I learned a lot about their design. Most have the draft control on the bottom and airflow is directed towards the back of the stove through baffles and finally enters the firebox below the fuel. Once a fire is burning, the fresh air is preheated as it travels through the baffles. Feeding prewarmed air into the fuel helps maintain the temperature of the stove. Kind of the opposite of a car engine where we want to introduce cold air, rather than warm. So there may be something to turning the firebox around. The air entering through the draft may be prewarmed by the thermal mass of the firebox itself as it moves around towards the back of the egg. In theory, of course. I think I will stick to the normal firebox orientation. Much easier to get the ash out, if for no other reason.

stike · September 2008

he would usually do the provoking.

BENTE · September 2008

i will have a good cook this weekend thanks... it is kind of hard not to have a good cook with an egg

here is a pic of what i will cook later on this morning

cornbread chili pie

Reversing the Firebox - A Review

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