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Gasket install clarification

Ala-EggAla-Egg Posts: 162
edited November -1 in EggHead Forum
Ok, I have received my new gasket from BGE mothership, cleaned the egg where the gasket will go and bought the 3M super 77. Now, all i need to do is peel the backing off gasket, spray the super 77 on it and put gasket in place? Or do I spray it on and let it sit a couple minutes then place gasket on egg. Not sure about the process. Thanks for any advice.

Comments

  • Weekend WarriorWeekend Warrior Posts: 1,702
    Don't use the spray on the first application. Wait until the double sided gasket adhesive melts at about 500 degrees and your gasket slides/falls off, then re-apply the gasket with the Super 77. Spray both the gasket and the rim of the Egg, allow to get tacky(about 90 secs.) then carefully apply. Once it's stuck, it's stuck. Make sure to leave yourself about a half an inch extra material on the first application and don't stretch it. After the gasket adhesive fails, you will have to re-apply the gasket and it will have shrunk some. Also, make sure to mask the Egg well and don't spray indoors. The Super 77 is VERY sticky and overspray is a real issue. Email me if you would like any clarification. You will love the nomex once you get past the installation issues. Mark
  • civil eggineercivil eggineer Posts: 1,547
    This is a stab in the dark but I would follow the 3M directions on the can. I believe I read on a previous post to just use the adhesive strip only first. If it fails, remove gasket and reinstall with the 3M adhesive.
  • Grandpas GrubGrandpas Grub Posts: 14,226
    There has got to be a better way...

    replacing a gasket knowing it needs to fail again so it can be re-installed - I really hope some type of work around can be found.

    GG
  • Weekend WarriorWeekend Warrior Posts: 1,702
    There is. BGE should send the damn thing out without the lousy double sided adhesive crap on it and tell folks to just use the 77 to apply the gasket. Period. I for one did not agree with Bobby Q's position yesterday regarding this same subject. Our concerns over this new nomex gasket could be addressed with one post from the Mothership addressing the masses and telling us what steps are being taken to correct this issue and various other issues people are having with their BGE's saving dozens of telephone calls and emails back and forth. FWIW Mark
  • dls2122dls2122 Posts: 66
    I'm confused. I just bought the Nomex also but haven't recieved it yet. What is the logic of letting it fail and risk damaging it so you can then apply the Super 77? Why not simply apply the Super 77 to begin with - and since high temps are a big "selling point" why doesn't BGE come up with a better soluction - they sell this product, I bought it from them.

    I'm not complaining, but this seems counter-productive.

    I agree with Grandpas Grun - Oh man

    Don
  • East Cobb EggyEast Cobb Eggy Posts: 1,162
    I definitely agree with you, WW!!

    Greg
  • I just put on a new NOMEX,key is to clean the surface very well before putting on the new gasket! Spray the 3M on the ceramic edge, wait about 1 1/2 minutes and start placing the new gasket on, do not stretch it.. NO FIRE FOR 24 HOURS. Hope this helps...Terry
  • civil eggineercivil eggineer Posts: 1,547
    I believe the vast majority of egg owners don't experience gasket issues. If you check around, temperatures achievable with the egg is above most adhesive recommendations. I think if their was a simple fix it would be implemented.
  • Weekend WarriorWeekend Warrior Posts: 1,702
    Have you done any high temp(500+ degree) cooks since the application? Mine worked fine for a couple of medium temp cooks, but the first time I went over 500 degrees, I had the top gasket and a piece of clear celophane laying on top of two really nice NY strips and the bottom gasket was sliding around like it was on wet ice. I know of some others that have had succesful applications the first time, but no one seems to be able to pin down the exact cause of success. Ultra clean surface? Several low temp cooks? No fire for 24 hours? Super 77? No Super 77?

    Maybe GG will do some more testing for us! I know he is going to be replacing some gaskets soon.:woohoo:
  • I waited more that 24 hours. I am a new Egger (melted my gasket during the 1st 2 cooks) so after the new gasket I did several dry run test burns at 225º for up to 30 hours. Then I have done 5-6 long 225º cooks as well. I took it to 500º + last weekend but only for a short period of time. Gasket is all well. I will monitor my cooks and watch the gasket.
  • Grandpas GrubGrandpas Grub Posts: 14,226
    Most of what follows is probably the same for any company. First off I don’t speak for the company these are only my thoughts.

    If one follows the forum you have noticed Corporate never discusses issues via the forum, plain and simple. You may have also noticed, from what we can tell, only one person in corporate occasionally posts.

    In the last 3 days or so Bobby-Q had posted a couple of times saying contact corporate directly with individual issues and that it will not be discussed on the forum. I would think we should all understand and respect that fact.

    I would have to believe corporate is well aware of the gasket issues. I also trust corporate is working hard on the issue trying to come up with a solution.

    What is any company to do with a problem. The problem has to be identified, in this case is it the adhesive, gasket, both or possibly the method adhesive is being applied to gasket.

    For many reasons any company cannot and should not announce ever step in product development or new product development. It should be obviously Nomex in a step to find a solution. Apparently an interim step.

    What can we do:
    I well understand the frustration with some of this stuff. Hell I have lost 6 gaskets on 2 eggs. Frankly sometimes corporate doesn’t have an answer.

    However, when I have called them they have bent over backwards to get me some kind of resolve.

    I don’t think we should be striking out at corporate without first personally talking with them and giving them a chance to help. I think parts of this post are out of line. We have been told warranty type help is not going to come through the forum.

    In the mean time let’s get our heads together and see if we can come up with a solution, at the least the folks that are having problems.

    My best, Kent
  • Grandpas GrubGrandpas Grub Posts: 14,226
    Did you put the 3M over the adhesive membrane?

    Kent
  • Weekend WarriorWeekend Warrior Posts: 1,702
    The "Forums" tab is featured prominently in the left margin of the BGE website. WE(albiet indirectly)sell many Big Green Egg's for them. Many if not most of us own multiple Eggs. WE are their best and most loyal customers. They use the information shared on the forum to improve their products and expand their line of accessories. We are a friggin advertising machine for them and they don't have to pay us. Yet they can't or won't assist us through the very forum they use to help promote their products and services? With all due respect to you GG(and I mean that sincerely), I have a problem with that mentality. Very best regards, Mark
  • Grandpas GrubGrandpas Grub Posts: 14,226
    Personally I think it is the temp limits of the adhesive.

    The curing theory in my opinion is hogwash. I had 40 cooks below 400° on my large and had an adhesive failure at 450° dome.

    That failure was due to a large cast iron dutch oven. I was curing it, one end was on the lump (1100°) the other end was fairly close to one side of the gasket.

    That Cast Iron mass had enough radiant heat to heat the gasket area above what I belive the adhesive melting point of 475° +- 50°

    TNW has a great gasket measuring test on his site. Most of his readings were, if I am recalling correctly, +- 350° about what I belive is 100° below the adhesive heat limit.

    I am going to post an alignment theory a little later on if I can get to writing it up.

    This last failure on my medium, I got the gasket area up to 475°, I think it was, and that is again where I had a failure.

    I am really beginning to wonder if the adhesive is where we should be looking.

    It seems to me that the felt gasket can withstand something above 900° but I have no way to measure or confirm that. Just a theory right now.

    I also think the gasket failures are our own doing directly or indirectly.

    Alignment, old style of burping, trexing, pizza stones close to gasket area, dutch ovens close to gasket area seem to be the majority of causes.

    I would hope anyone who shares a gasket failure will take the time to explain the condiditons of the failure and if they have checked alignment. Factual information not the 'I think' stuff.

    more later, Kent
  • Grandpas GrubGrandpas Grub Posts: 14,226
    Mark,

    I am not taking offence, and I understand your thoughts and comments.

    It seems to me the Forum Feedback section is for problems with the forum. I am not over often at all so possibly I am wrong.

    You are correct - we have been asked to contact corporate directly for help. I don't think this forum help from corporate will ever be won. But, that doesn't mean they aren't listening and working on problems.

    In my past life I have owned my own company and have been in other companies some issues are just not suited to be helped in a public forum.

    I have to side with corporate on this issue.

    I completly believe BGE is working hard on this issue and I think as users we are using the egg more in the upper tempeture ranges and solutions need to be found.

    I also think there are a lot of bright minds on the forum here, me excluded, and some great potental solutions can be found.

    Just look at some of the amazing cooking methods that have been shared on the forum. I would have to think some of these folks have spent months testing and trying some of these recipes and cooking methods.

    Anyway, I completly understand your position. In the same breath I can understand why that doesn't happen.

    It seems the mothership has a hands off policy with regard to the forum. They support it but... hands off - frusterating or not.

    Kent
  • Grandpas GrubGrandpas Grub Posts: 14,226
    ... 3M 77 on the egg surface, then Nomex which as the adhesive membrane. Correct?

    It has been years since I have used 3M 77 do the instructions say to coat both surfaces?

    Kent
  • bubba timbubba tim Posts: 3,216
    Hi GG. I orderd a ceramic 1100 degree gasket from cotronics. Has anyone done any kind of heat test on thier adhesive?
    SEE YOU IN FLORIDA, March 14th and 15th 2014 http://www.sunshinestateeggfest.com You must master temp, smoke, and time to achive moisture, taste, and texture! Visit www.bubbatim.com for BRISKET HELP
  • Weekend WarriorWeekend Warrior Posts: 1,702
    Your option, one or both, but both surfaces for a stronger bond. It is essentially spray contact cement.
  • East Cobb EggyEast Cobb Eggy Posts: 1,162
    GG,

    I have a bit of an issue with this as well.

    If corporate has identified a problem with the felt gasket, there should be a change in manufacturing and distribution of the EGGs, and from my recollection, the NOMEX has been out since the beginning of the year.

    In May, I was given a new Small purchased from the Mothership as a gift. Upon opening the lid, I expected to see a nice white shiny NOMEX and not the black felt that I received.

    Personally, one of the selling points of our EGGs was the lifetime guarantee. With that type of commitment, I would expect that the NOMEX gaskets would be free if needed in replacement (Now, granted I have not asked for a NOMEX but have heard that they cost $$) and, also, that new EGGs leaving the mothership would have this new fix installed of this lingering problem installed.

    I agree with WW. We as posters on this forum help to sell the EGGs and tout the mothership for their product and their outstanding customer service. However in my opinion, I believe that outstanding customer service is proactive and not reactive, which seems to be the stance on the gasket.

    I understand that the mothership will not address these issues on the forum and that we should call them for assistance. However, this forum is for us EGGers to discuss our experiences and thoughts on the EGG... both good and bad.

    Greg
  • Grandpas GrubGrandpas Grub Posts: 14,226
    I have had two people contact me off line and recomend it to me. They say they are having great success with it. No testing on the egg that I know of other than usage.

    From a conversation with BGE I am wanting to stay with what BGE is using/recomending. I may change

    I am more thinking we need to deal with the adhesive. My only concern is whatever adhesive we use, at some point in time it will have to be removed.

    The harder it is and tighter it bonds the more difficult it will be to remove.

    GG
  • bubba timbubba tim Posts: 3,216
    That is my concern also. I will try and upload what my 12 year old gasket looks like. I am of two schools, if it ain't broke don't fix it and being pro-active. I have a new felt gasket still in its wrapper.and the other one is on its way..but....after reading all the post on the subject, I am leaning towards "ain't broke.. :cheer:
    SEE YOU IN FLORIDA, March 14th and 15th 2014 http://www.sunshinestateeggfest.com You must master temp, smoke, and time to achive moisture, taste, and texture! Visit www.bubbatim.com for BRISKET HELP
  • Grandpas GrubGrandpas Grub Posts: 14,226
    'However, this forum is for us EGGers to discuss our experiences and thoughts on the EGG... both good and bad.'

    I agree, but not to bash. Maybe I am taking what is above as bashing rather than discussing.

    I guess it is something like my kids… I can be mad as hell at them but that doesn’t mean I don’t love them.

    Prior to this 'testing' of mine I have called corporate for support. Both times the issues were addressed and the company did more than expected to help my two problems.

    If BGE has elected not to communicate through the forum there is not a lot any of us can do about it. From my conversations regarding my problems and from what has been told to me, my impression are they are being very proactive. I am in no way speaking for anyone but myself, I don’t feel they have a complete answer as of yet – hence Nomex is not on the dealers’ shelves. We do know the Nomex has been in testing for a long time now. Nothing has been specifically said, that is just my impression. Again, those that are have an issue, please, call them – it really isn’t all that hard.

    I respect yours and others thoughts, feelings and positions.

    GG
  • Grandpas GrubGrandpas Grub Posts: 14,226
    I have a nomex here for my large which I want change out before the cold sets in.

    I do feel the failures lead more towards the adhesive rather than the gasket. I may try and figure out a way to remove the adhesive.

    I am not excited about installing, waiting for a failure then 3M'ing. Once it gets cold I really don't want to be farting around with gasket issues. I have no place to get an egg warm in the winter and I am not taking it in the house.

    GG
  • East Cobb EggyEast Cobb Eggy Posts: 1,162
    GG,

    I think you might have misunderstood my point on the mothership being on the forum. My point is that I realize that they have elected to not post anything on the forum, however I believe that this does not prohibit use from discussing it.

    I do not view it as bashing. I view it as passionate EGGers in a discussion. We are all a part of a cult or club of EGGers, much like sports fans. With that said, I believe that we discuss our favorite grill team and any issues that we might have. It is much better than being an apathetic grill fan.

    On another note, do they charge you for a new gasket?

    Greg
  • Grandpas GrubGrandpas Grub Posts: 14,226
    Greg,

    I understand your point and for the most part agree. The forum is a great tool and and the discussions are important from my point of view.

    I respect corp. policy as they have given us a clear path for direct help if needed. The forum has been a huge help for me and I would be lost without it.

    On my gasket losses, I have paid for some and the dealer has given me some. If I think the problem is my fault, like this last loss, I just pay for it.

    Thanks, Kent
  • Jersey DougJersey Doug Posts: 458
    Grandpas Grub wrote:
    ... My only concern is whatever adhesive we use, at some point in time it will have to be removed.
    The harder it is and tighter it bonds the more difficult it will be to remove.
    GG

    I had the same concern. That's why I installed a felt gasket on the Small earlier this week.
  • As a techie I find this sort of unhappy-customer/product failure problem intriguing...

    Let me summarize non-emotionally what has been reported:
    (1) Original felt gaskets fail more frequently than customers would like, and in fact represent the most common failure type for Eggs as reported in this user community. Failure modes include felt degradation and adhesive failure.
    (2) Low-to-medium-temp "cure" cooks repeated an unspecified number of times on new gaskets may or may not improve the long-term reliability of the original felt gasket
    (3) Some highly motivated users report better results with a Nomex gasket
    (4) The Nomex gasket is reported to carry a price premium
    (4) Field repair using felt gaskets and 3M "Super 77" spray adhesive are an imperfect solution according to the user community, which says these, too, sometimes fail. The failure mode appears to be adhesive failure.
    (5) The user community has expressed dissatisfaction with the communication of BGE policy and official gasket recommendations.

    Honestly, guys, the technical issue should not be that hard to solve. From the descriptions given, I looked up the 3M datasheet on the adhesive:

    http://multimedia.mmm.com/mws/mediawebserver.dyn?6666660Zjcf6lVs6EVs66SuatCOrrrrQ-

    This 3M spec sheet for this adhesive says it's good for fiberglass (e.g., fuzzy stuff) and requires a 15-minute cure but unfortunately does not include a temperature spec. I'm sure that communication with 3M would resolve this question.

    As far as the gasket itself, I found this:

    NOMEX® is the registered trademark for one of DuPont's high temperature-resistant aramid fibers with exceptional thermal stability and good resistance to degradation by a wide range of chemicals and industrial solvents. SAUNDERS THREAD Manufacturers both continuous multifilament and spun Nomex for a variety of sewing operations. Continuous multifilament Nomex is available in soft and bonded.

    This took about 45 seconds of research. Any other Eggers care to move the discussion along? Maybe we can come up with a definitive solution and leave everybody in the Egg community happier because the focus is on the food and not on the other stuff. :)
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