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OT - Another Shooting. Sad.

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Comments

  • Ozzie_Isaac
    Ozzie_Isaac Posts: 18,942
    The Newtown shooting is the one that gave me a major pause and forced me to reevaluate my views..  I see both sides of the argument, and have no idea how to resolve it.
    A bison’s level of aggressiveness, both physical and passive, is legendary. - NPS
  • Toxarch
    Toxarch Posts: 1,900
    YukonRon said:
    Educated by you, right.

    My education: Body count via idiots with guns (vs. knives and trucks?), in the USA, in the last 30 years. Where does it begin? 2nd Amendment. Plain as day. 

    Trouble is, AR15 (and similar) is considered an assault type fire arm. It is because of the ease of modification. Sorry, but that seems to be a fact by all which have identified the weapon, from gun stores, to the media. Actually, there are more deadly weapons to be used, but the buzzword is assault weapons, or assault type weapons......
    The 2nd Amendment is not where it starts. Bad parenting and society is where it starts. Quit using the 2nd Amendment as your scapegoat.

    And no, the AR-15 is NOT considered an assault weapon by gun stores nor is it by the military. Nolaegghead posted the Army's definition of an assault weapon. And there is no such thing as an assault type weapon. That is like pointing at a person and calling them a sexual assault type person just because of how they look.

    I didn't read anything else you wrote because there is no point in talking to someone who is constantly wrong and will not bother to learn about something they are so adamant about getting rid of. Try using facts rather than false statements and false accusations if you want to have a civil debate with someone.
    Aledo, Texas
    Large BGE
    KJ Jr.

    Exodus 12:9 KJV
    Eat not of it raw, nor sodden at all with water, but roast with fire; his head with his legs, and with the purtenance thereof.

  • nolaegghead
    nolaegghead Posts: 42,102
    The Newtown shooting is the one that gave me a major pause and forced me to reevaluate my views..  I see both sides of the argument, and have no idea how to resolve it.
    That you have no idea speaks volumes.  I think you do have an idea, and a good one, but you can't reconcile that idea with ideology that groups have spent billions of dollars, successfully, to instill.  So you're like both a wave and a particle, at the same time.  That's called "Quantum" politics.
    ______________________________________________
    I love lamp..
  • Toxarch
    Toxarch Posts: 1,900
    edited February 2018
    Toxarch said:
    Toxarch said:

    Reading comprehension. Where in that law does it state that it only applies to open carry? Must be in the fine print somewhere in your copy.


    Here you go Johnny Cochrane.

    18-12-105 is as regards carry of a weapon in a vehicle.  Note that you provided the State Patrol's website.

    Here is the rest of the story regarding concealed carry, again, which you refer to in your original post.

    https://www.colorado.gov/pacific/cbi/chpstatute    

    Care for a little wager or can you just be done?

    It's ok to be wrong, it happens.  Even the Pope is wrong once in a while.
    That is an awesome link to a 404 page that does not exist.
    Yes, it is OK to be wrong. You've proven that since you have been wrong so far in the last few replies.

    Allright brother - here you go.

    https://www.colorado.gov/pacific/cbi/chpstatutes

    Probably didn't mesh with the NRA home page.

    Of course, a thinker like you could have looked it up, but when the facts aren't in your favor it's usually not a good idea to go looking too hard.
    Super. The full version of the law does not say open carry either. It does state concealed handguns quite a few times though. (Here, let me be witty like you:) But I guess it was hard to actually read it with Clinton News Network going in the background. Don't you hate it when your facts keep failing?
    Aledo, Texas
    Large BGE
    KJ Jr.

    Exodus 12:9 KJV
    Eat not of it raw, nor sodden at all with water, but roast with fire; his head with his legs, and with the purtenance thereof.

  • nolaegghead
    nolaegghead Posts: 42,102

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Filter_bubble


    Filter bubble

    From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    For the technology boom and bust phenomenon, see social media bubble.
    The term was coined by Internet activist Eli Pariser circa 2010

    filter bubble is a state of intellectual isolation[1] that can result from personalized searches when a website algorithm selectively guesses what information a user would like to see based on information about the user, such as location, past click-behavior and search history.[2][3][4] As a result, users become separated from information that disagrees with their viewpoints, effectively isolating them in their own cultural or ideological bubbles.[5] The choices made by these algorithms are not transparent. Prime examples include Google Personalized Search results and Facebook's personalized news-stream. The bubble effect may have negative implications for civic discourse, according to Pariser, but contrasting views regard the effect as minimal[6]and addressable.[7] The surprising results of the U.S. presidential election in 2016 have been associated with the influence of social media platforms such as Twitter and Facebook,[8][9] and as a result have called into question the effects of the "filter bubble" phenomenon on user exposure to fake news and echo chambers,[10] spurring new interest in the term,[11] with many concerned that the phenomenon may harm democracy.[12][13][11]

    (Technologies such as social media) lets you go off with like-minded people, so you're not mixing and sharing and understanding other points of view ... It's super important. It's turned out to be more of a problem than I, or many others, would have expected.

    — Bill Gates 2017 in Quartz[14]





    See also[edit]


    References[edit]

    1. Jump up^ Technopedia, Definition - What does Filter Bubble mean?, Retrieved October 10, 2017, "....A filter bubble is the intellectual isolation that can occur when websites make use of algorithms to selectively assume the information a user would want to see, and then give information to the user according to this assumption ... A filter bubble, therefore, can cause users to get significantly less contact with contradicting viewpoints, causing the user to become intellectually isolated...."
    2. Jump up^ Bozdag, Engin (23 June 2013). "Bias in algorithmic filtering and personalization"Ethics and Information Technology15(3): 209–227. doi:10.1007/s10676-013-9321-6.
    3. Jump up^ Web bug (slang)
    4. Jump up^ Website visitor tracking
    5. Jump up^ Huffington Post, The Huffington Post "Are Filter-bubbles Shrinking Our Minds?"
    6. Jump up to:a b c d e Boutin, Paul (May 20, 2011). "Your Results May Vary: Will the information superhighway turn into a cul-de-sac because of automated filters?"The Wall Street Journal. Retrieved August 15, 2011By tracking individual Web browsers with cookies, Google has been able to personalize results even for users who don't create a personal Google account or are not logged into one. ...
    7. Jump up^ Zhang, Yuan Cao; Ó Séaghdha, Diarmuid; Quercia, Daniele; Jambor, Tamas (February 2012). "Auralist: Introducing Serendipity into Music Recommendation" (PDF). ACM WSDM.
    8. Jump up^ "The author of The Filter Bubble on how fake news is eroding trust in journalism"The Verge. 2016-11-16. Retrieved 2017-04-19.
    9. Jump up to:a b c Baer, Drake. "The 'Filter Bubble' Explains Why Trump Won and You Didn't See It Coming"Science of Us. Retrieved 2017-04-19.
    10. Jump up^ DiFranzo, Dominic; Gloria-Garcia, Kristine (2017-04-01). "Filter Bubbles and Fake News"XRDS23 (3): 32–35. doi:10.1145/3055153ISSN 1528-4972.
    11. Jump up to:a b Jasper Jackson (8 January 2017). "Eli Pariser: activist whose filter bubble warnings presaged Trump and Brexit: Upworthy chief warned about dangers of the internet's echo chambers five years before 2016's votes". The Guardian. Retrieved March 3, 2017...“If you only see posts from folks who are like you, you’re going to be surprised when someone very unlike you wins the presidency,” Pariser tells the Guardian....
    12. Jump up^ AUTHOR: MOSTAFA M. EL-BERMAWY (November 18, 2016). "Your Filter Bubble is Destroying Democracy". Wired. Retrieved March 3, 2017...The global village that was once the internet ... digital islands of isolation that are drifting further apart each day ... your experience online grows increasingly personalized ...
    13. Jump up^ Drake Baer (November 9, 2016). "The 'Filter Bubble' Explains Why Trump Won and You Didn't See It Coming". New York Magazine. Retrieved March 3, 2017...Trump’s victory is blindsiding ... because, as media scholars understand it, we increasingly live in a “filter bubble”: The information we take in is so personalized that we’re blind to other perspectives....
    14. Jump up^ Kevin J. Delaney (February 21, 2017). "Filter bubbles are a serious problem with news, says Bill Gates". Quartz. Retrieved March 3, 2017...Gates is one of a growing number of technology leaders wrestling with the issue of filter bubbles, ...

    Further reading[edit]


    ______________________________________________
    I love lamp..
  • nolaegghead
    nolaegghead Posts: 42,102
    ...troll, troll, troll...
    ______________________________________________
    I love lamp..
  • nolaegghead
    nolaegghead Posts: 42,102

    "Alternative facts" is a phrase used by U.S. Counselor to the President Kellyanne Conway during a Meet the Press interview on January 22, 2017, in which she defended White House Press Secretary Sean Spicer's false statement about the attendance numbers of Donald Trump's inauguration as President of the United States. When pressed during the interview with Chuck Todd to explain why Spicer "utter[ed] a provable falsehood", Conway stated that Spicer was giving "alternative facts". Todd responded, "Look, alternative facts are not facts. They're falsehoods."[1]

    Conway's use of the phrase "alternative facts" to describe demonstrable falsehoods was widely mocked on social media and sharply criticized by journalists and media organizations, including Dan RatherJill Abramson, and the Public Relations Society of America. The phrase was extensively described as Orwellian. Within four days of the interview, sales of the book 1984 had increased by 9,500%, which The New York Times and others attributed to Conway's use of the phrase, making it the number-one bestseller on Amazon.com.[2]

    Conway later defended her choice of words, defining "alternative facts" as "additional facts and alternative information".[3]


    ______________________________________________
    I love lamp..
  • First of all we are all friends here. Let's remember that. I am a gun owner. If someone kicks the door in at 3AM I am not sure a Louisville Slugger will get the job done for me. 

    With that being said I do not want the mentally unstable to own a gun. Where does that put me in this argument you guys are having? I am not sure. 

    Louisville, GA - 2 Large BGE's
  • nolaegghead
    nolaegghead Posts: 42,102
    Interesting time to be alive.
    ______________________________________________
    I love lamp..
  • Toxarch
    Toxarch Posts: 1,900
    I don't have a filter bubble. I use a Virtual Private Network to a Proxy Server. Any search engine has my IP listed the same as 10,000+ other people. It would list my IP as a bot rather than an identifiable individual.
    Aledo, Texas
    Large BGE
    KJ Jr.

    Exodus 12:9 KJV
    Eat not of it raw, nor sodden at all with water, but roast with fire; his head with his legs, and with the purtenance thereof.

  • Toxarch
    Toxarch Posts: 1,900

    Aledo, Texas
    Large BGE
    KJ Jr.

    Exodus 12:9 KJV
    Eat not of it raw, nor sodden at all with water, but roast with fire; his head with his legs, and with the purtenance thereof.

  • nolaegghead
    nolaegghead Posts: 42,102
    First of all we are all friends here. Let's remember that. I am a gun owner. If someone kicks the door in at 3AM I am not sure a Louisville Slugger will get the job done for me. 

    With that being said I do not want the mentally unstable to own a gun. Where does that put me in this argument you guys are having? I am not sure. 
    No one is trying to take all the guns.  This is a slippery slope argument.  I'm in that 3% that owns half the guns in the country category.  I'd say you are not on the crazy side of it.
    ______________________________________________
    I love lamp..
  • DMW
    DMW Posts: 13,832
    edited February 2018
    Toxarch said:

    And neither one should be in the hands of a mentally ill individual.
    They/Them
    Morgantown, PA

    XL BGE - S BGE - KJ Jr - HB Legacy - BS Pizza Oven - 30" Firepit - King Kooker Fryer -  PR72T - WSJ - BS 17" Griddle - XXL BGE  - BS SS36" Griddle - 2 Burner Gasser - Pellet Smoker
  • Toxarch
    Toxarch Posts: 1,900
    Many of the schools here have signs like this. It seems it is usually only the small district schools.


    Aledo, Texas
    Large BGE
    KJ Jr.

    Exodus 12:9 KJV
    Eat not of it raw, nor sodden at all with water, but roast with fire; his head with his legs, and with the purtenance thereof.

  • thetrim
    thetrim Posts: 11,352
    First of all we are all friends here. Let's remember that. I am a gun owner. If someone kicks the door in at 3AM I am not sure a Louisville Slugger will get the job done for me. 

    With that being said I do not want the mentally unstable to own a gun. Where does that put me in this argument you guys are having? I am not sure. 
    So you're just saying that @nolaegghead & @JohnInCarolina couldn't own guns.  I have no issues with that!
    =======================================
    XL 6/06, Mini 6/12, L 10/12, Mini #2 12/14 MiniMax 3/16 Large #2 11/20 Legacy from my FIL - RIP
    Tampa Bay, FL
    EIB 6 Oct 95
  • dmchicago
    dmchicago Posts: 4,516
    Toxarch said:
    Many of the schools here have signs like this. It seems it is usually only the small district schools.


    Should that be "are" armed?
    Philly - Kansas City - Houston - Cincinnati - Dallas - Houston - Memphis - Austin - Chicago - Austin

    Large BGE. OONI 16, TOTO Washlet S550e (Now with enhanced Motherly Hugs!)

    "If I wanted my balls washed, I'd go to the golf course!"
    Dennis - Austin,TX
  • YukonRon
    YukonRon Posts: 16,984
    @Toxarch

    I respect your view of the world, and glad for you. 

    But those that feel nothing can be done, other than raise the children better, are really missing the point.

    There are dead people everywhere, and your definition on the type of firearm used whether it be called and assault weapon by everyone else, or not, does not change the availability of such weapons, which seem to end up in the hands of deranged individuals, raised poorly or not, that use them to slaughter innocent Americans.

    Try to thwart the assertion or deny it completely, but the law allows these people to own weapons. The law emerges from the interpretation of the second amendment.

    Start there. I mean, much has changed in our country since 1791 (227 years later). Might be something we can fix. 

    Or maybe, you should go ahead and explain why it is important to keep Rifles such as the AR15 or any weapon, in the hands of idiots, to the mothers that has lost their children, husbands, whatever.... to this ongoing and senseless slaughter of innocent Americans.

    The 2nd amendment was designed to protect those rights provided in The Declaration of Independence which oddly guarantees every person; Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness, these are refered to as inalienable rights which are supposed to be protected by the government for you and everyone.

    I doubt to the families'  loved ones, lost to senseless slaughter, at the hands of the mentally deranged, using weapons of any sort, feel that the 2nd amendment is doing its job in the protection of our citizens, specifically those that were buried today.

    The second amendment, written by James Madison, the primary author and chief advocate for the bill of rights, did not intend for it to be abused by the insane to kill our own people. It was for something else entirely. Yet the interpretation, does just that. I am sure James Madison would give his blessing for a modification to his amendment to protect Americans.

    Your vision...your world. 

    Idiots are only allowed to act as crazy as you let them. I pity those who remain ardent on present gun laws. sooner or later, it will be at your doorstep.

    I gotta walk the dog.

    "Knowledge is Good" - Emil Faber

    XL and MM
    Louisville, Kentucky
  • nolaegghead
    nolaegghead Posts: 42,102
    If the collective noun (staff) is acting as a single unit, use the singular verb: “The staff is very efficient.” If the collective noun is meant to highlight the actions of discrete individuals who are all doing different things, use the plural verb: “The staff are working on many projects for the holiday party.”

    So in this case, "is"
    ______________________________________________
    I love lamp..
  • I am not real familiar with the "Gunshow Loophole" but is buying a gun from an individual without the two knowing each other considered to be something similar? 

    Louisville, GA - 2 Large BGE's
  • dmchicago
    dmchicago Posts: 4,516
    If the collective noun (staff) is acting as a single unit, use the singular verb: “The staff is very efficient.” If the collective noun is meant to highlight the actions of discrete individuals who are all doing different things, use the plural verb: “The staff are working on many projects for the holiday party.”

    So in this case, "is"
    Thanks. I googled are read this exact info. But I've been drinking so my comprehension ain't great.


    Philly - Kansas City - Houston - Cincinnati - Dallas - Houston - Memphis - Austin - Chicago - Austin

    Large BGE. OONI 16, TOTO Washlet S550e (Now with enhanced Motherly Hugs!)

    "If I wanted my balls washed, I'd go to the golf course!"
    Dennis - Austin,TX
  • Dobie
    Dobie Posts: 3,354
    Hundreds of millions of guns didn’t kill anyone today, guess their just biding their time to strike. 
    Jacksonville FL
  • Toxarch
    Toxarch Posts: 1,900
    Aledo, Texas
    Large BGE
    KJ Jr.

    Exodus 12:9 KJV
    Eat not of it raw, nor sodden at all with water, but roast with fire; his head with his legs, and with the purtenance thereof.

  • nolaegghead
    nolaegghead Posts: 42,102
    dmchicago said:
    If the collective noun (staff) is acting as a single unit, use the singular verb: “The staff is very efficient.” If the collective noun is meant to highlight the actions of discrete individuals who are all doing different things, use the plural verb: “The staff are working on many projects for the holiday party.”

    So in this case, "is"
    Thanks. I googled are read this exact info. But I've been drinking so my comprehension ain't great.


    I thought initially the same as you....
    ______________________________________________
    I love lamp..
  • nolaegghead
    nolaegghead Posts: 42,102
    Dobie said:
    Hundreds of millions of guns didn’t kill anyone today, guess their just biding their time to strike. 
    That hasn't happened in at least a century.  Do tell!
    ______________________________________________
    I love lamp..
  • Toxarch
    Toxarch Posts: 1,900
    YukonRon said:
    @Toxarch

    I respect your view of the world, and glad for you. 

    But those that feel nothing can be done, other than raise the children better, are really missing the point.

    There are dead people everywhere, and your definition on the type of firearm used whether it be called and assault weapon by everyone else, or not, does not change the availability of such weapons, which seem to end up in the hands of deranged individuals, raised poorly or not, that use them to slaughter innocent Americans.

    Try to thwart the assertion or deny it completely, but the law allows these people to own weapons. The law emerges from the interpretation of the second amendment.

    Start there. I mean, much has changed in our country since 1791 (227 years later). Might be something we can fix. 

    Or maybe, you should go ahead and explain why it is important to keep Rifles such as the AR15 or any weapon, in the hands of idiots, to the mothers that has lost their children, husbands, whatever.... to this ongoing and senseless slaughter of innocent Americans.

    The 2nd amendment was designed to protect those rights provided in The Declaration of Independence which oddly guarantees every person; Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness, these are refered to as inalienable rights which are supposed to be protected by the government for you and everyone.

    I doubt to the families'  loved ones, lost to senseless slaughter, at the hands of the mentally deranged, using weapons of any sort, feel that the 2nd amendment is doing its job in the protection of our citizens, specifically those that were buried today.

    The second amendment, written by James Madison, the primary author and chief advocate for the bill of rights, did not intend for it to be abused by the insane to kill our own people. It was for something else entirely. Yet the interpretation, does just that. I am sure James Madison would give his blessing for a modification to his amendment to protect Americans.

    Your vision...your world. 

    Idiots are only allowed to act as crazy as you let them. I pity those who remain ardent on present gun laws. sooner or later, it will be at your doorstep.

    I gotta walk the dog.

    I have an opinion. You have an opinion. We are both entitled to them. In the end, we both want mass killings to stop. The difference is what we see as the cause and what we think is the solution. If it were an easy decision, then it would have been done a long time ago.

    I never said there isn't a problem; there absolutely is a problem. I never said it is important to keep guns in the hands of idiots. I feel like you are reading that into statements when it has not been said. I've offered up what I think is a good way to prevent that from happening through free background checks.

    The 2nd Amendment is one of the Bill of Rights. The first 10 Amendments in the Bill of Rights were written together to protect the rights that the founding fathers wanted all US citizens to have. It wasn't a suggestion. It wasn't a want list. It is the rights of the People and a list of limits on government power. Why was the 2nd Amendment written? It was not written for idiots to buy guns and commit mass murder. It was written because the founders wanted the people to have the same weapons as a tyrannical government and the ability to overthrow such a government if needed. That is why the 2nd Amendment affords the people the right to buy an AR-15. Is it the same as what the government uses? No, it is far from it. Those weapons were already regulated a long time ago by people who wanted to take guns away from the people. In my eyes, the Bill of Rights are what the country was founded on and they can not and must not be changed.

    Like said, we both having different opinions. I respect your opinion. But I am also going to tell you why I disagree.
    Aledo, Texas
    Large BGE
    KJ Jr.

    Exodus 12:9 KJV
    Eat not of it raw, nor sodden at all with water, but roast with fire; his head with his legs, and with the purtenance thereof.

  • Dobie
    Dobie Posts: 3,354
    edited February 2018
    Dobie said:
    Hundreds of millions of guns didn’t kill anyone today, guess their just biding their time to strike. 
    That hasn't happened in at least a century.  Do tell!
    Hope you’re guarding your guns cause they may override your intelligence and make you a homicidal maniac any day now. 
    Jacksonville FL
  • nolaegghead
    nolaegghead Posts: 42,102
    Dobie said:
    Dobie said:
    Hundreds of millions of guns didn’t kill anyone today, guess their just biding their time to strike. 
    That hasn't happened in at least a century.  Do tell!
    Hope you’re guarding your guns cause they may override your intelligence and make you a homicidal maniac any day now. 
    They haven't tried yet.  Maybe because we keep them amber.
    ______________________________________________
    I love lamp..
  • Botch
    Botch Posts: 15,427
    YukonRon said:
    The second amendment, written by James Madison, the primary author and chief advocate for the bill of rights, did not intend for it to be abused by the insane to kill our own people. It was for something else entirely. Yet the interpretation, does just that. I am sure James Madison would give his blessing for a modification to his amendment to protect Americans.

    Ron, I don't think the 2nd Amendment needs any modification; rather, we need to quit ignoring the phrase "well-regulated", and start taking the same caution, as a nation, as we do with driver's licenses, explosives, strong pesticides, etc.  
    _____________

    "I mean, I don't just kill guys, I'm notorious for doing in houseplants."  - Maggie, Northern Exposure


  • DMW
    DMW Posts: 13,832
    Botch said:
    YukonRon said:
    The second amendment, written by James Madison, the primary author and chief advocate for the bill of rights, did not intend for it to be abused by the insane to kill our own people. It was for something else entirely. Yet the interpretation, does just that. I am sure James Madison would give his blessing for a modification to his amendment to protect Americans.

    Ron, I don't think the 2nd Amendment needs any modification; rather, we need to quit ignoring the phrase "well-regulated", and start taking the same caution, as a nation, as we do with driver's licenses, explosives, strong pesticides, etc.  
    For some reason, there are those that believe that the "well regulated" part only applies to "militia". The way I read it, it applies to the entire amendment. 
    They/Them
    Morgantown, PA

    XL BGE - S BGE - KJ Jr - HB Legacy - BS Pizza Oven - 30" Firepit - King Kooker Fryer -  PR72T - WSJ - BS 17" Griddle - XXL BGE  - BS SS36" Griddle - 2 Burner Gasser - Pellet Smoker
  • HeavyG
    HeavyG Posts: 10,323
    I have no doubt that a decade or two down the road the interpretation of the 2nd Amendment will change (again).

    The demographics of gun ownership is pretty much tied to older white guys and their numbers as a percentage of the population continues to dwindle. As kids that have grown up with the threat of gun violence in their schools become of the age where folks tend to vote more regularly (and have kids of their own) the pendulum will swing back.

    Until then we're likely stuck in the "thoughts & prayers/acceptable losses" mode.
    “Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away.” ― Philip K. Diçk