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Pastrami- desalinate or no?

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The Cen-Tex Smoker
The Cen-Tex Smoker Posts: 22,970
edited May 2017 in EggHead Forum
I had a pastrami that changed my life...at a pizza place. In Texas. Weird I know but they are getting huge props for their pastrami and I'm here to tell you, it's legit. My son and i took our first bite and just looked up at each other. No words were spoken until the pile of meat was gone. So I have been on a quest to replicate this pastrami. I know it's smoked on a large offset Texas style pit but not sure if they steam it or sous vide it to finish. What ever it is, I'm going to find out.

Long story short- I just pulled a 5 lb Meyer All natural Prime packer out of the 7 day brine. I'm going to smoke and then sous vide this one to see where that gets me. 

My question is for people who have done a few- do you desalinate? I'm getting mixed signals from the interwebs. Meathead says you must or it will be horrible. The recipe I follow when I make venison backstrap pastrami says no. That recipe is what I followed but I used a whole packer instead of small back straps. So what say you, Pastrami kings and queens? Desalinate, or no?

Here is the link to the pizza/pastrami place. The pies are possibly the best in town too. These guys have it going on.

https://www.facebook.com/Pieous
Keepin' It Weird in The ATX FBTX
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  • jtcBoynton
    jtcBoynton Posts: 2,814
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    Yes yes and yes.
    Southeast Florida - LBGE
    In cooking, often we implement steps for which we have no explanations other than ‘that’s what everybody else does’ or ‘that’s what I have been told.’  Dare to think for yourself.
     
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  • The Cen-Tex Smoker
    The Cen-Tex Smoker Posts: 22,970
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    jtcBoynton said:
    Yes yes and yes.
    Thank you. I have it in water now but just wanted to make sure I was on the right track. I'm stitching several recipes and techniques together and they all have different thoughts on this.
    Keepin' It Weird in The ATX FBTX
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  • SciAggie
    SciAggie Posts: 6,481
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    First for my disclamer - I've made pastrami once - this past Christmas. Mine was in the brine for 7 days and then I rinsed and soaked it in ice water for about 8 hours. I like the way it came out in terms of saltiness. 
    Coleman, Texas
    Large BGE & Mini Max for the wok. A few old camp Dutch ovens and a wood fired oven. LSG 24” cabinet offset smoker. There are a few paella pans and a Patagonia cross in the barn. A curing chamber for bacterial transformation of meats...
    "Bourbon slushies. Sure you can cook on the BGE without them, but why would you?"
                                                                                                                          YukonRon
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  • Legume
    Legume Posts: 14,627
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    That pastrami plate is life changing.  That's what got me started smoking corned beefeses.  I've not cured my own, but I always soak the cured corned beef with a couple of water changes, at least 6 hours or it's far too salty.  I don't know how your cure compares.  I pretty much follow what thirdeye recommends.  Pressure cook finish beats the others if you can swing it.
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  • JohnInCarolina
    JohnInCarolina Posts: 30,977
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    "I've made a note never to piss you two off." - Stike
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  • The Cen-Tex Smoker
    The Cen-Tex Smoker Posts: 22,970
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    Legume said:
    That pastrami plate is life changing.  That's what got me started smoking corned beefeses.  I've not cured my own, but I always soak the cured corned beef with a couple of water changes, at least 6 hours or it's far too salty.  I don't know how your cure compares.  I pretty much follow what thirdeye recommends.  Pressure cook finish beats the others if you can swing it.
    I'll check out third eye- good call. What's one more variable to throw in at this point? 

    I have never had pastrami like that. Incredible. I will not stop until I figure it out. This is my new golden grail
    Keepin' It Weird in The ATX FBTX
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  • The Cen-Tex Smoker
    The Cen-Tex Smoker Posts: 22,970
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    SciAggie said:
    First for my disclamer - I've made pastrami once - this past Christmas. Mine was in the brine for 7 days and then I rinsed and soaked it in ice water for about 8 hours. I like the way it came out in terms of saltiness. 
    Thank you! BTW- I'm digging your pizza oven build! That is so cool. You've come a long way toward the dark side since buying your first egg. Fun to watch.
    Keepin' It Weird in The ATX FBTX
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  • The Cen-Tex Smoker
    The Cen-Tex Smoker Posts: 22,970
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    JohnInCarolina said:
    Makes me want to drive over there right now. I just might. 
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  • JohnInCarolina
    JohnInCarolina Posts: 30,977
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    The Cen-Tex Smoker said:

    JohnInCarolina said:
    Makes me want to drive over there right now. I just might. 
    That's from their FB page you linked up above. It looks pretty good!  Reminds me of stuff you can find in NYC.
    "I've made a note never to piss you two off." - Stike
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  • The Cen-Tex Smoker
    The Cen-Tex Smoker Posts: 22,970
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    JohnInCarolina said:
    The Cen-Tex Smoker said:

    JohnInCarolina said:
    Makes me want to drive over there right now. I just might. 
    That's from their FB page you linked up above. It looks pretty good!  Reminds me of stuff you can find in NYC.
    It's better than any that I've had in NYC. I think the pit with oak really adds a local flavor to it that I've never had before anywhere else. 
    Keepin' It Weird in The ATX FBTX
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  • blind99
    blind99 Posts: 4,971
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    store-bought corned beefs are SUPER salty.  they get boiled until tender - first time my wife did that i was like huh?  what cooking technique is that?  but it works, and they desalinate in the process.  I definitely desalinate before turning those into pastramis.

    any idea what the salt level was in your brine?  anything over 2% will taste pretty salty.

    spices are critical too - black pepper and coriander are the backbone, traditionally.  

    i have not done the steaming or pressure cooking part.  they turn out tender enough for me with a low/slow smoke.  i see no reason you couldn't tenderize it with a sous vide bath, if you wanted to.  

    keep us posted- pastrami is awesome
    Chicago, IL - Large and Small BGE - Weber Gasser and Kettle
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  • The Cen-Tex Smoker
    The Cen-Tex Smoker Posts: 22,970
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    blind99 said:
    store-bought corned beefs are SUPER salty.  they get boiled until tender - first time my wife did that i was like huh?  what cooking technique is that?  but it works, and they desalinate in the process.  I definitely desalinate before turning those into pastramis.

    any idea what the salt level was in your brine?  anything over 2% will taste pretty salty.

    spices are critical too - black pepper and coriander are the backbone, traditionally.  

    i have not done the steaming or pressure cooking part.  they turn out tender enough for me with a low/slow smoke.  i see no reason you couldn't tenderize it with a sous vide bath, if you wanted to.  

    keep us posted- pastrami is awesome
    I didn't catch the % on this one. It's the brine from Modernist Cuisine. 

    I do have a nice black pepper coriander based rub. The last one i did, the rub was incredible. The pastrami sucked but it all got eaten. That was Ruhlman's- he said brine it for 2-3 days. I dd and it wasn't brined all the way through. He's the only person I've seen that says less than 7 days. I'll save everyone the trouble. He is wrong. 
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  • blind99
    blind99 Posts: 4,971
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    if you're going to do it with a brine, you could pretty easily figure out an equilibrium brine, even if it's a rough estimate.  it's nice to be able to recreate the salt level.  the other issue then is how much more salt you add with the rub. if you season a salty, cured corned beef with a lot of salty rub it's a recipe for a salt-bomb pastrami.  (i've done it, oops)


    Chicago, IL - Large and Small BGE - Weber Gasser and Kettle
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  • The Cen-Tex Smoker
    The Cen-Tex Smoker Posts: 22,970
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    blind99 said:
    if you're going to do it with a brine, you could pretty easily figure out an equilibrium brine, even if it's a rough estimate.  it's nice to be able to recreate the salt level.  the other issue then is how much more salt you add with the rub. if you season a salty, cured corned beef with a lot of salty rub it's a recipe for a salt-bomb pastrami.  (i've done it, oops)


    I Followed the Modernist cuisine brine recipe. It's definitely lower in sodium than the Ruhlman Brine. I pulled these out of the water since MC does not have a desalinate step in their recipe. I'll let everyone know how it works out. We do not desalinate the venison and it's perfect. Hope Birsket is the same.
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  • The Cen-Tex Smoker
    The Cen-Tex Smoker Posts: 22,970
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    I'll do the math on the Ruhlman vs MC brine and post it here so everyone knows the difference
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  • The Cen-Tex Smoker
    The Cen-Tex Smoker Posts: 22,970
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    Out if the brine 2 days ago. Dried itnout in the fridge for 36 hours. Just came off the egg. 8 hours at 200 with oak and cherry. In to the SV bath at 155 for 24 hours. We shall see hot it goes. Smells incredible. Lot of work for roughly  6 lbs of meat! 
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  • SciAggie
    SciAggie Posts: 6,481
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    Can't wait to see the finish. 
    Coleman, Texas
    Large BGE & Mini Max for the wok. A few old camp Dutch ovens and a wood fired oven. LSG 24” cabinet offset smoker. There are a few paella pans and a Patagonia cross in the barn. A curing chamber for bacterial transformation of meats...
    "Bourbon slushies. Sure you can cook on the BGE without them, but why would you?"
                                                                                                                          YukonRon
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  • EggObsessed
    EggObsessed Posts: 786
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    You are exactly right about the pastrami at Pieous.  Incredible!!  I always get the pastrami plate with the "juicy" pastrami.  I've never had anything that compares.  Good luck with your experiment!
    Kelley 
    Egging with No Joke Smoke (Bruce), enjoying small town life in Brenham, TX., the home of Blue Bell Ice Cream.  BGEs: XL, Medium,  1 MiniMax. 36" CookRite Commercial Griddle, and a Shirley Smoker.
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  • kl8ton
    kl8ton Posts: 5,429
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    Tex,
    Do you have any photographs of these pastrami shenanigans? 
    Large, Medium, MiniMax, & 22, and 36" Blackstone
    Grand Rapids MI
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  • The Cen-Tex Smoker
    The Cen-Tex Smoker Posts: 22,970
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    Keepin' It Weird in The ATX FBTX
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  • The Cen-Tex Smoker
    The Cen-Tex Smoker Posts: 22,970
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    In the bath. 155 for 24 hours. 
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  • caliking
    caliking Posts: 18,731
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    I'm waiting for this. I don't suppose you think that a few of your buddies in Houston may want to sample some... HINT HINT.



    #1 LBGE December 2012 • #2 SBGE February  2013 • #3 Mini May 2013
    A happy BGE family in Houston, TX.
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  • cazzy
    cazzy Posts: 9,136
    edited May 2017
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    caliking said:
    I'm waiting for this. I don't suppose you think that a few of your buddies in Houston may want to sample some... HINT HINT.


    I personally don't care for their brisket because he seasons his brisket like Louie Mueller.  That means it's Grumpy Old Men approved...ie... Carolina Q wouldn't drop dead from a salt overdose.

    However, I hear Roegels Barbecue's Pastrami Thursday is worth a visit.




    Just a hack that makes some $hitty BBQ....
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  • The Cen-Tex Smoker
    The Cen-Tex Smoker Posts: 22,970
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    caliking said:
    I'm waiting for this. I don't suppose you think that a few of your buddies in Houston may want to sample some... HINT HINT.


    I hope its worthy. 11 days in and the anticipation is killing me!
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  • The Cen-Tex Smoker
    The Cen-Tex Smoker Posts: 22,970
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    Well- we may be in for a treat. After 7 days in the brine, 2 days in the fridge to chill,  about an 8 hour smoke, a 30 hr sous code bath at 155 and another night to chill in the fridge, today is the day. Im going to steam it until soft to finish it up. Its tender like cold brisket would be and the flavor is awesome so i have high hopes. If the cross section means anything, its going to be delish 


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  • The Cen-Tex Smoker
    The Cen-Tex Smoker Posts: 22,970
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    It came up to room temp and turned to butter. It's in the steam now but I think we may have a winner.
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  • Legume
    Legume Posts: 14,627
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    So you used a lean brisket?
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  • The Cen-Tex Smoker
    The Cen-Tex Smoker Posts: 22,970
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    Legume said:
    So you used a lean brisket?
    Commodity Select
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  • SmokeyPitt
    SmokeyPitt Posts: 10,490
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    I say this with great surety. No pastrami has been treated better than this one.

    Which came first the chicken or the egg?  I egged the chicken and then I ate his leg. 

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  • The Cen-Tex Smoker
    The Cen-Tex Smoker Posts: 22,970
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    SmokeyPitt said:
    I say this with great surety. No pastrami has been treated better than this one.
    It has been a huge pain in the ass. Its a jiggly mess (in a good way) but i would be hard pressed to do this a lot. 
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