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OT: Japanese Knife Steel
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BGE Convert
Posts: 127
Was looking a new Japanese Chef's knife and noticed that some brands have so many different options for steel type: Blue Steel, Super Blue Steel, VG 10, Ice Hardened Molybdenum...
I did a quick search of old posts and did not see any discussion on this topic...Anyone done anything to research beyond stainless vs non-stainless steel blades?
Comments
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Do a Google search on "knife steel" and you'll be utterly overwhelmed with expert opinions. All I can say is that I've never been disappointed with any good Japanese cooking knife I've ever bought.Cincinnati, Ohio. Large BGE since 2011. Still learning.
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Stainless are better if you aren't careful with your knives regarding drying/wiping after cutting or washing. They are harder to sharpen and can't get quite the edge carbon steel can. The trade-off is carbon steel needing the extra care since its reactive.
VG-10 is very common for stainless. AEB-L or "Swedish steel" is quite nice. For carbon blades, I have White #2 and Aogami Super Steel. Generally, the differences in steels are steel purity(white steels) vs grind(blue steels). White steel has a thicker grind, generally, and is better for more robust tasks. I have SS and White #2 gyutos as all-around blades, and Aogami for my Nakiri since it's for vegetables. -
Do you want high carbon or stainless? High carbon means more care but could be a touch sharper in the hands of a really good sharpener. Stainless is still gonna be excellent.
VG10 is stainless, blue and Super blue are high carbon.
If it were me and I knew I would care for a knife properly I'd go blue. Super blue has more chromium from what I've read and something else too that makes it more brittle (tungsten I think) but will hold an edge forever. I know for me blue would be fine (blue is just a name given to a grade of steel made by Hitachi steel in Japan. I'm unsure if there would be any comparable NA made steel or not). But either way they are gonna be a **** to sharpen and best done intermittently by a pro unless you are really good at it (I'm ok, not great and I'm not sure I would try it personally). But once sharp, man they will be a weapon in the kitchen.Mt Elgin Ontario - just a Large. -
for a kitchen knife im content with the ss, either vg 1 or vg 10, would kill me to find an expensive carbon steel knife in the sinkfukahwee maineyou can lead a fish to water but you can not make him drink it
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As others have said SS knifes are easier to maintain and always look pretty.
If you want a shinny knife and are not into frequent wiping down the knife, hand washing and drying the knife then carbon steel is not for you.
If you are willing to maintain the knife, enjoy holding a sharp edge, willing to wipe down knife frequently and, most important, don't mind the patina that will comes with age then a carbon steel knife is for you. You will get years of enjoyment for a carbon steel knife.
Before you invest in an expensive carbon steel knife (either Kramer or Japanese), I suggest that you purchase and OKC carbon steel knife to try out. They are dirt cheap, but if treated right will last well into your lifetime and kids lifetime..
I speak from experience. Cook's knife was in my mother knife drawer as long as I can remember. When mother died and my sister cleaned out the kitchen she thought the knife was horrible looking and she tossed it. It was an Old Hickory circa mid 1930's that served the family will until 2005.
Large, small and mini now Egging in Rowlett Tx -
Here is the carbon steel knife I am trying to justify:
Large, small and mini now Egging in Rowlett Tx -
all you need to know about the steels right here. I like high carbon, and I think they look awesome with a nice patina.
http://www.japanesechefsknife.com/InformationAboutSteels.html
Large BGEBBQ Guru DigiQ IIMartensville, Saskatchewan Canada -
Austin Egghead said:Here is the carbon steel knife I am trying to justify:“Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away.” ― Philip K. Diçk
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I have just started down the Japanese knife path. I am enjoying it quite a bit. My take is you either have stainless or carbon steel. You will not see a huge difference in the carbon steels. There are also semi stainless steels like Hap40...
What I really want to mention is handle type. I use a pinch grip and really like the balance point of wa handle knives without a full tang. The balance point is blade heavy and feels great. I only learned this when I took a flier on a cheap Nakiri. That is now one of my two favorite knives.
I keep an eye on the closeout section on Chefknivestogo -
HeavyG said:Austin Egghead said:Here is the carbon steel knife I am trying to justify:
https://www.swissknifeshop.com/kramer-8-carbon-steel-chef-s-knife-by-zwilling?gclid=COS3xrWxhNICFQO2wAodvsoK5Q
I have used one and the knife is just beauty to hold and to cut.Large, small and mini now Egging in Rowlett Tx -
A sorta On-Topic story our Metallurgy instructor told us in college:
One of the most famous and revered swordmakers in Medieval Japan would temper his swords (once formed/forged but not yet ground) by plunging them, fresh out of the furnace, into a slave; the cooling rate provided a perfectly-tempered blade which took an excellent edge. Alas, as in boiling lobsters, the screaming kinda got on his nerves and it was an expensive process.
Soon it was discovered that bleeding out a slave, and using the blood alone, worked just as well, and was more economical as 4 quarts could do several blades.
Then, it was discovered urine could do the same thing; buy a keg of Sapporo and you could arm a regiment. Finally, it was discovered that plain ol' saltwater did the same thing too, which kind've took out any romance left after the urine thing.
This has nothing to do with steel composition, but it does with edge forming and durability (steel hardness). I am not responsible for any accidents should you experiment with your MAPP, kitchen knife, beer, and whizzing._____________"Pro-Life" would be twenty students graduating from Sandy Hook next month
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So tomorrow when I heat treat this one I should just pee on it?
Mt Elgin Ontario - just a Large. -
gmac said:So tomorrow when I heat treat this one I should just pee on it?
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Austin Egghead said:HeavyG said:Austin Egghead said:Here is the carbon steel knife I am trying to justify:
https://www.swissknifeshop.com/kramer-8-carbon-steel-chef-s-knife-by-zwilling?gclid=COS3xrWxhNICFQO2wAodvsoK5Q
I have used one and the knife is just beauty to hold and to cut.
Good choice, I've read lots of complimentary things about that knife.
I've never held/used one but it has one thing I always appreciate - a polished spine and choil.“Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away.” ― Philip K. Diçk -
Thanks for all the posts...really appreciate the information offered up...
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