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Proposed 20% border tax

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  • ToTheMax
    ToTheMax Posts: 150
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    nolaegghead said:
    The other way of reducing costs is to reduce quality.  In the history of the world, this has never been done.
    Could also reduce size... The new large will really be a medium!
    Northern Virginia
    LBGE ~'14
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  • westernbbq
    westernbbq Posts: 2,490
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    I wonder if bge was built in usa whether delivery times would speed up...not picking on mexico here but i gotta believe moving stuff across the border may involve delays related to inspections, etc
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  • nolaegghead
    nolaegghead Posts: 42,102
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    ToTheMax said:
    nolaegghead said:
    The other way of reducing costs is to reduce quality.  In the history of the world, this has never been done.
    Could also reduce size... The new large will really be a medium!
    This also, has never happened.  Inconceivable!
    ______________________________________________
    I love lamp..
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  • Mickey
    Mickey Posts: 19,674
    edited January 2017
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    Skiddymarker said:
    Just saw this link used on CBC as they were discussing the issue - https://ustr.gov/countries-regions/americas/mexico

    Trade between Mexico is about $590B, including the BGE parts, Mexico has a trade surplus of about $60B. Of this some $90B is vehicles and car parts, the parts feed current assembly lines in USA. @Mickey new Tacoma might have been built or parted in Mexico. 20% tariff will either hit the company's bottom line or increase the price or maybe both. I'm betting China is already on the phone to Mexico trying to cut a deal with them. 
    Tacoma and Tundra now built in San Antonio. I think there is still (not positive) an older plant down there but those will stay in Mexico. 
    All US trucks are out of San Antonio. They were 3 years ago when I retired. 
    Salado TX & 30A  FL: Egg Family: 3 Large and a very well used Mini, added a Mini Max when they came out (I'm good for now). Plus a couple Pit Boss Pellet Smokers.   

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  • nolaegghead
    nolaegghead Posts: 42,102
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    westernbbq said:
    I wonder if bge was built in usa whether delivery times would speed up...not picking on mexico here but i gotta believe moving stuff across the border may involve delays related to inspections, etc
    BGE ships to dealers from it's warehouse in Atlanta.  They don't ship directly from Mexico to the dealers.  If they did, that would be news to me, and seems like it would be overall more expensive because the dealers get LTL shipments.
    ______________________________________________
    I love lamp..
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  • Eoin
    Eoin Posts: 4,304
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    Gulfcoastguy said:
    Eoin said:
    Don't you guys sell lots of sh1t to other countries? 20% the other way might hurt too.
    Currently we have a 60 billion dollar trade deficit with Mexico. We have a lesser trade deficit with Canada. Excuse me if I am mistaken but when we ship goods to England isn't a VAT of 15 to 20 % tacked onto the price. Isn't that a form of tariff in itself? 
    20%. No, it's the same as your sales tax and applies to everything whether UK made or imported. A tariff only applies to imported stuff.
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  • pgprescott
    pgprescott Posts: 14,544
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    Maybe he'll just tax the oil imports. The religious environmental folks will be really confused and torn then. Oh dear, do I march with happy signs or angry ones, oh dear. 
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  • fishlessman
    fishlessman Posts: 32,767
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    im happy with a 20 percent tax over nafta, look what nafta did since 1993, the perot sucking noise

    Image result for usa mexico trade deficit by year

    if this was a business model the green line would be a red (loss) line for the year =)   the govt shows it as a green (profit) line ;)

    fukahwee maine

    you can lead a fish to water but you can not make him drink it
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  • jtcBoynton
    jtcBoynton Posts: 2,814
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    fishlessman said:
    im happy with a 20 percent tax over nafta, look what nafta did since 1993, the perot sucking noise

    Image result for usa mexico trade deficit by year

    if this was a business model the green line would be a red (loss) line for the year =)   the govt shows it as a green (profit) line ;)

    But it is a bit more complicated than the graph shows.  A good bit of the imports from Mexico were imports from other countries that Mexico has been able to get.  As an example, there are many electronics that used to come into the US from Asia that now come from Mexico.  With Mexico being able to capture some of this import stream, more Mexicans stay at home for jobs rather than come to the US - helping to lower the illegal immigrant problem.  
    Southeast Florida - LBGE
    In cooking, often we implement steps for which we have no explanations other than ‘that’s what everybody else does’ or ‘that’s what I have been told.’  Dare to think for yourself.
     
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  • fishlessman
    fishlessman Posts: 32,767
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    jtcBoynton said:
    fishlessman said:
    im happy with a 20 percent tax over nafta, look what nafta did since 1993, the perot sucking noise

    Image result for usa mexico trade deficit by year

    if this was a business model the green line would be a red (loss) line for the year =)   the govt shows it as a green (profit) line ;)

    But it is a bit more complicated than the graph shows.  A good bit of the imports from Mexico were imports from other countries that Mexico has been able to get.  As an example, there are many electronics that used to come into the US from Asia that now come from Mexico.  With Mexico being able to capture some of this import stream, more Mexicans stay at home for jobs rather than come to the US - helping to lower the illegal immigrant problem.  
    would not the asian products cost less if they are not marked up by mexico and sold direct.  shouldnt we be creating 15 dollar plus jobs for our own and the legal immigrants. we have been going backwards. if we are going to take in immigrants, we need jobs for them
    fukahwee maine

    you can lead a fish to water but you can not make him drink it
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  • jtcBoynton
    jtcBoynton Posts: 2,814
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    No.  The Asians started building factories and making products in Mexico for the US market because it was more cost effective for them than making them in Asia for the US market.    My major point is that some of the Mexican imports shown on the graph were already imports and not US jobs that were lost to Mexico.  You really need full accounting to get an accurate picture of the impact to American workers.
    Southeast Florida - LBGE
    In cooking, often we implement steps for which we have no explanations other than ‘that’s what everybody else does’ or ‘that’s what I have been told.’  Dare to think for yourself.
     
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  • fishlessman
    fishlessman Posts: 32,767
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    jtcBoynton said:
    No.  The Asians started building factories and making products in Mexico for the US market because it was more cost effective for them than making them in Asia for the US market.    My major point is that some of the Mexican imports shown on the graph were already imports and not US jobs that were lost to Mexico.  You really need full accounting to get an accurate picture of the impact to American workers.
    thats my point as well, not only are us plants being built in mexico BECAUSE of nafta, asian plants are being built in mexico BECAUSE of nafta. start that tax and watch some plants being built in the usa. im ok with the tax, ok with more us manufacturing, ok with a better business environment, ok with higher pays, ok withbetter quality, ok with making more environmental friendly plants here than what mexico and asia  has. not so ok with third world nations beating us in trade =)

    fukahwee maine

    you can lead a fish to water but you can not make him drink it
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  • jeroldharter
    jeroldharter Posts: 556
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    Nothing wrong with Primo.
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  • fishlessman
    fishlessman Posts: 32,767
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    imagine a factory making eggs in atlanta georgia with jobs ranging from 15 to 30 dollars an hour, i would apply in a heartbeat and quite that burger flipping 7.25 an hour job ;)
    fukahwee maine

    you can lead a fish to water but you can not make him drink it
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  • jtcBoynton
    jtcBoynton Posts: 2,814
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    And why would they pay that much?  Seems like they should be able to get plenty of help at say $8.50.  If they can't they will probably get H-2 workers from Mexico!!   =)
    Southeast Florida - LBGE
    In cooking, often we implement steps for which we have no explanations other than ‘that’s what everybody else does’ or ‘that’s what I have been told.’  Dare to think for yourself.
     
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  • bigalsworth
    bigalsworth Posts: 685
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    fishlessman said:
    jtcBoynton said:
    No.  The Asians started building factories and making products in Mexico for the US market because it was more cost effective for them than making them in Asia for the US market.    My major point is that some of the Mexican imports shown on the graph were already imports and not US jobs that were lost to Mexico.  You really need full accounting to get an accurate picture of the impact to American workers.
    thats my point as well, not only are us plants being built in mexico BECAUSE of nafta, asian plants are being built in mexico BECAUSE of nafta. start that tax and watch some plants being built in the usa. im ok with the tax, ok with more us manufacturing, ok with a better business environment, ok with higher pays, ok withbetter quality, ok with making more environmental friendly plants here than what mexico and asia  has. not so ok with third world nations beating us in trade =)

    You know it can work both ways though right?  You had mentioned building pressure parts and sending them to Canada, maybe if we added a tariff on what you build someone in Canada would get paid to build it and you would then lose business.  I know mexico is the discussion not Canada, but the focus could change, The Donald is a bit of a loose cannon.
    Large BGE
    BBQ Guru DigiQ II

    Martensville, Saskatchewan Canada
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  • fishlessman
    fishlessman Posts: 32,767
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    bigalsworth said:
    fishlessman said:
    jtcBoynton said:
    No.  The Asians started building factories and making products in Mexico for the US market because it was more cost effective for them than making them in Asia for the US market.    My major point is that some of the Mexican imports shown on the graph were already imports and not US jobs that were lost to Mexico.  You really need full accounting to get an accurate picture of the impact to American workers.
    thats my point as well, not only are us plants being built in mexico BECAUSE of nafta, asian plants are being built in mexico BECAUSE of nafta. start that tax and watch some plants being built in the usa. im ok with the tax, ok with more us manufacturing, ok with a better business environment, ok with higher pays, ok withbetter quality, ok with making more environmental friendly plants here than what mexico and asia  has. not so ok with third world nations beating us in trade =)

    You know it can work both ways though right?  You had mentioned building pressure parts and sending them to Canada, maybe if we added a tariff on what you build someone in Canada would get paid to build it and you would then lose business.  I know mexico is the discussion not Canada, but the focus could change, The Donald is a bit of a loose cannon.
    it costs me more than double to ship to canada plus my time and aggravation. a 20 percent fee is minor. because of the aggravation i do have parts made there that i could be making, have them shipped here, fix them and build around them, and ship them back. the us and canada build to the same codes and standards, materials, qualifications. having it built in canada saves me from engineering it twice, drawing it twice, approving it twice, inspecting it twice, testing it twice. imagine if you charged 20 percent instead of 300 percent on the exact same product with the same markings ;)
    fukahwee maine

    you can lead a fish to water but you can not make him drink it
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  • fishlessman
    fishlessman Posts: 32,767
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    jtcBoynton said:
    And why would they pay that much?  Seems like they should be able to get plenty of help at say $8.50.  If they can't they will probably get H-2 workers from Mexico!!   =)
    i thought i was being kind, up here theres not much of a boarder issue and a floor sweeper in a factory starts at 15 an hour, snow shovelers in bad winters get 25 an hour =)
    fukahwee maine

    you can lead a fish to water but you can not make him drink it
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  • bigalsworth
    bigalsworth Posts: 685
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    fishlessman said:
    bigalsworth said:
    fishlessman said:
    jtcBoynton said:
    No.  The Asians started building factories and making products in Mexico for the US market because it was more cost effective for them than making them in Asia for the US market.    My major point is that some of the Mexican imports shown on the graph were already imports and not US jobs that were lost to Mexico.  You really need full accounting to get an accurate picture of the impact to American workers.
    thats my point as well, not only are us plants being built in mexico BECAUSE of nafta, asian plants are being built in mexico BECAUSE of nafta. start that tax and watch some plants being built in the usa. im ok with the tax, ok with more us manufacturing, ok with a better business environment, ok with higher pays, ok withbetter quality, ok with making more environmental friendly plants here than what mexico and asia  has. not so ok with third world nations beating us in trade =)

    You know it can work both ways though right?  You had mentioned building pressure parts and sending them to Canada, maybe if we added a tariff on what you build someone in Canada would get paid to build it and you would then lose business.  I know mexico is the discussion not Canada, but the focus could change, The Donald is a bit of a loose cannon.
    it costs me more than double to ship to canada plus my time and aggravation. a 20 percent fee is minor. because of the aggravation i do have parts made there that i could be making, have them shipped here, fix them and build around them, and ship them back. the us and canada build to the same codes and standards, materials, qualifications. having it built in canada saves me from engineering it twice, drawing it twice, approving it twice, inspecting it twice, testing it twice. imagine if you charged 20 percent instead of 300 percent on the exact same product with the same markings ;)
    Buuuut my point is that the US exports as well, and some of that stuff could have a tariff put on it, which in turn might make the company say screw it and shut the plant down in the US and the put it up where somewhere else, causing job losses in the US.  Whether the job gain out paces the jobs lost, I don't know.  Maybe it is worth it.
    Large BGE
    BBQ Guru DigiQ II

    Martensville, Saskatchewan Canada
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  • alynd
    alynd Posts: 130
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    nolaegghead said:
    westernbbq said:
    I wonder if bge was built in usa whether delivery times would speed up...not picking on mexico here but i gotta believe moving stuff across the border may involve delays related to inspections, etc
    BGE ships to dealers from it's warehouse in Atlanta.  They don't ship directly from Mexico to the dealers.  If they did, that would be news to me, and seems like it would be overall more expensive because the dealers get LTL shipments.
    BGE ships to distributors around the country, who then ship to individual dealers.
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  • jtcBoynton
    jtcBoynton Posts: 2,814
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    fishlessman said:
    jtcBoynton said:
    And why would they pay that much?  Seems like they should be able to get plenty of help at say $8.50.  If they can't they will probably get H-2 workers from Mexico!!   =)
    i thought i was being kind, up here theres not much of a boarder issue and a floor sweeper in a factory starts at 15 an hour, snow shovelers in bad winters get 25 an hour =)
    You need to come south to get a different perspective on wages.  There is a reason many US factories moved operations south.  The $8.50 is probably a bit low. 
    Southeast Florida - LBGE
    In cooking, often we implement steps for which we have no explanations other than ‘that’s what everybody else does’ or ‘that’s what I have been told.’  Dare to think for yourself.
     
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  • Eoin
    Eoin Posts: 4,304
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    The world wide issue is that countries like the USA and the UK got rich by being pioneers of mass production and efficiency and sold our stuff all over the world to 'undeveloped' nations while paying them a pittance for their raw materials, helpfully mined by our companies given licences by their corrupt leaders. Of course, we in the UK did this first by expoiting our empire and turning rich societies like China and India into our subjects and captive markets.

    We are rich and a large part of the globe is poor. Globalisation seen from the side of the poor of the world probably looks different to how it looks to us.  More like, we have been exploited for years and now global trade gives us a bit of the good stuff that the rich have earned off our backs.

    Globalised trade means evening out the world's wealth in the long run.  This means that, in relative terms, we in the West get poorer because the rest of the world is catching us up.

    If we do not accept this evening out, we are going to maintain inequality and that is going to result in conflict and immigration pressure. We cannot simply maintain our wealth and try and fence out the large % of the world's population that is poor. They will try and get here, as we probably would if we lived under their conditions, and conflict will result.

    What is the best long term solution for our children?
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  • fishlessman
    fishlessman Posts: 32,767
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    jtcBoynton said:
    fishlessman said:
    jtcBoynton said:
    And why would they pay that much?  Seems like they should be able to get plenty of help at say $8.50.  If they can't they will probably get H-2 workers from Mexico!!   =)
    i thought i was being kind, up here theres not much of a boarder issue and a floor sweeper in a factory starts at 15 an hour, snow shovelers in bad winters get 25 an hour =)
    You need to come south to get a different perspective on wages.  There is a reason many US factories moved operations south.  The $8.50 is probably a bit low. 
    if there was a wall and a tax, maybe you guys in the south would be making more per hour =)
    fukahwee maine

    you can lead a fish to water but you can not make him drink it
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