Done with Royal Oak

Steve619 · July 2016

I've been using Royal Oak for the past 5 years and been very happy with it. A couple of years ago they switched from a 20 lb bag to a 17.6 lb bag.... O.K. I can live with that. This year they went to 15.6 lb bag.... same price ..... enough is enough.
Three weeks ago I bought a 40lb bag of Diablo Mesquite from Costco for 12.00.... I love it.
Thank you Royal Oak for persuading me to try something different, your greed is saving me lots of $. Would have stayed with you if you hadn't played the size game.
Just my 2 cents

HeavyG · July 2016

Well, it's either that or a straight up price increase. Many manufacturers - not just Royal Oak - have thought that consumers would rather keep the price the same and get a little less than before.

Either way it s actually a price increase but marketing/psychology is a mysterious thing sometimes.

blasting · July 2016

Hey Steve - welcome.

I've posted as well that I would prefer they just up the price rather than trying to sneak it past.

El Diablo... I'm glad you like it - no bueno for me.

KiterTodd · July 2016

Ugh, they do that with everything and it is so annoying. How many times have you cooked up a pound of bacon, wondered why it resulted in so little, only to realize it was one of the ever common 12 oz. "pound" size packages.

The same thing is happening to dog food. What was always a 25 lbs. bag is dropping to a 15-17 lbs. bag for many manufacturers. So you see a high-end brand that looks like the same price as your generic...nope, 40% less food.

So yeah, I'd rather they raised the price, OR at least reduced the physical size of the packaging to match the drop in quantity. There are a lot of half empty boxes of things in the food store these days. It's annoying.

So, back on topic, how is the Costco lump? I'd be scared away that it was too mesquite, when I might not want mesquite.

stlcharcoal · July 2016

Don't blame them for it.....it's the big box retailers, and it's with EVERYTHING.

Big Box Retailer tells them "we want to sell a bag for $9.95 and it needs to be a certain dimention". The manufacturer needs to figure out how much they can put in that bag or box and still make money.

In order to maintain the same volume, some will get really tricky and make the product more bulky, porous, ridged, etc. You can't really do that with lump charcoal, but companies did it with briquettes years ago under the guise of "helping it light"......now briquette occupies the same amount of space in the bag, yet are 10-15% lighter per volume.

There are tons of packaging publications, stuidies, conferences, etc. It's all about what the eye sees, the weight you feel when you pick it up, and the PERCEIVED value with the price on the sticker.

In the end, the price per pound was going up regardless.....whether a higher price for the same sized bag, or the same price for a smaller bag. The powers that be, figured they could better market with a smaller bag. BTW, smaller bags mean more paper and labor go into each pallet; so, it's not a simple equation of "cut 2# off a 20# bag = save 10%."

lousubcap · July 2016

And to add, the big box driver in the retail world is Wally World. The demand/pressure they put on suppliers is incredible. No doubt some of it is merited but in the main it is just to drive down their cost. FWIW-

Darby_Crenshaw · July 2016

If you think it is simply greed driving their pricing, then just start a charcoal company

Lit · July 2016

Walmart still has the 17.6 lb bags at the same price I have only seen the smaller ones at homedepot

Dobie · July 2016

Holding a pricepoint with reduced quantity (as in this case) doesn't bother me. Its when other products cut corners on quality I've come to expect is what irks me.

Botch · July 2016

This thread is heartening to read, I guess I'm not the only one pissed off about this deceptive way to raise prices. I've written more than a few letters to different companies complaining, saying "I guess your 1%er CEO needed a bigger yacht this year, huh??!?" Wish I'd saved the few inane replies I'd get back...
The one that really made me mad is when the sheet-goods industry began making plywood, waferboard etc in smaller sizes, 3/4" plywood got thinner by a 1/64", then by 1/32", etc. Suddenly we had to buy new router bit and tablesaw blades to match these non-standard sizes, just raise the damn price if you have to!!!!
Another good one was Slim Jims, which I used to snack on a lot. They used to come in a 3, 4" dia tube, maybe ten inches long. They kept getting smaller in diameter, shorter, fewer, then I guess finally the Shipping COO probably screamed in some staff meeting, "LOOK, we can fit these in a 1"x3"x4" box now, and save on shipping!"
Which is what they finally did. And why I finally got (a little) smart and quit buying it.
I realize raw materials, and shipping, costs fluctuate (and usually go up all the time) but trying to "hide" these cost increases pisses me off. I wasn't aware of the "directions" from Wally World to their suppliers, but it doesn't surprise me.
Sorry to go all "Friday night", I still have tomorrow off too so I'm venting.

mrs_story · July 2016

My husband did a post on his blog about this years ago.

http://www.mdmproofing.com/iym/weblog/2007/03/charmin-shrinks-with-exposure-to-air.html

If you read the comments, I remarked that I first noticed that older recipes called for 16 oz cans, but when we got married and I really started cooking (over 20 years ago), you couldn't find 16 oz cans anymore. No fun for a beginner cook!

By the way, if you click the link, the debt paydown and liquid savings goal is WAY out of date. We paid off the house and were debt-free for all of a couple months last summer. Then he took a new job driving farther & we got him a better (used) truck. Didn't want our savings to take that much of a hit, so we paid part, my folks offered to pay the rest, and we're repaying them interest-free. If nothing crazy happens we'll be debt-free again within a year.

stlcharcoal · July 2016

mrs_story said:

My husband did a post on his blog about this years ago.

http://www.mdmproofing.com/iym/weblog/2007/03/charmin-shrinks-with-exposure-to-air.html

Another thing they did years ago was increase the diameter of the inner tube.....it's was still the "Mega Roll" on the outside, but less paper on the inside.

Those little bits add up quick on a MASSIVE production like that though. UPS calculated how much time they would save by removing the driver's steps into their trucks from 3 down to 2. I forget how much American Airlines saved by removing the olive from their salads back in the day.

One other story I remember from grad school was Kentucky Fried Chicken (before it was KFC). They came out with a "weight watchers" meal that had 25% less fat/calories, and all they did was lower the serving size by 25%......oh yeah, and they charged extra for it. Haha!

RRP · July 2016

BTW - even the little 4 oz box of JELL-O I used to buy for my favorite cake is no longer 4 but 3.9 oz now!

dougcrann · July 2016

HeavyG said:

Well, it's either that or a straight up price increase. Many manufacturers - not just Royal Oak - have thought that consumers would rather keep the price the same and get a little less than before.

Either way it s actually a price increase but marketing/psychology is a mysterious thing sometimes.

Hardly call 22% less a little. Folks can justify this however they want...that is exactly what they are doing...justifying...

HeavyG · July 2016

dougcrann said:

HeavyG said:

Well, it's either that or a straight up price increase. Many manufacturers - not just Royal Oak - have thought that consumers would rather keep the price the same and get a little less than before.

Either way it s actually a price increase but marketing/psychology is a mysterious thing sometimes.

Hardly call 22% less a little. Folks can justify this however they want...that is exactly what they are doing...justifying...

More like 'splainin.

It is what it is.

You can kvetch about it all you want. Ultimately, you can buy it or not buy it.

Lit · July 2016

This thread is stupid. It's not Royal Oak doing anything it's the retailers. It's like me saying Rockwood sucks because they raised their prices 20%because ace is charging $25 a bag when firecraft is $21. It's not the company doing it.

KiterTodd · July 2016

The consumer can't be expected to rationalize all of this up to who put pressure on whom to change the size of a bag.
When a company starts giving you less for the same money, you look at the name on the bag and that's who's fault it is.

Sure, any number of issues could be the cause, and I appreciate the insights posted here. But I gaurantee, whoever you blamed here, if you got them on the phone they'd say, "it's not us, it's <insert other distribution cause>".

So it's easier to just say, "I'm done with Royal Oak!" ...and then see if you can find someone else who is giving you a better value. We're all victims to inflation. I'll likely keep buying it even if the bags shrink. It's a reliable and readily available lump that I'm happy with. May not be the best, but it does the job just fine and I can pick it up down the street.

xfire_ATX · July 2016

stlcharcoal said:

UPS calculated how much time they would save by removing the driver's steps into their trucks from 3 down to 2.

I like how UPS/ FED EX figured it was cheaper to just leave it on the step rather than find a neighbor and if its stolen to just pay for it.

SoCalWJS · July 2016

If, and that's a BIG IF, I find something cheaper and at least as good as RO, I'll switch. Even at the new cost, it's still about the best deal I'm aware of......

HeavyG · July 2016

SoCalWJS said:

If, and that's a BIG IF, I find something cheaper and at least as good as RO, I'll switch. Even at the new cost, it's still about the best deal I'm aware of......

Especially if you buy it during the annual sale of $10 per 15lb-ish bag.

Gunnar · July 2016

A month ago +\-it was 7.99 for the 15 lb bag...bought 10...pick your battles...in the Houston area and RO is the steadiset

HeavyG · July 2016

Gunnar said:

A month ago +\-it was 7.99 for the 15 lb bag...bought 10...pick your battles...in the Houston area and RO is the steadiset

Yeah, brainfart ...$7.99 was what I meant to say.

texaswig · July 2016

They've done the same thing with large count Reese's Peanut Butter Cups. But I'll never quit them.

DoubleEgger · July 2016

lousubcap said:

And to add, the big box driver in the retail world is Wally World. The demand/pressure they put on suppliers is incredible. No doubt some of it is merited but in the main it is just to drive down their cost. FWIW-

Same with Home Depot and Lowes

lousubcap · July 2016

@DoubleEgger - no doubt but my only true dealings were with WW in a previous life producing retail goods for their supply chain. Clearly, "When you have the hammer, use it."
Thus the fact that I have not crossed the WW or Sam's threshold or their on-line sites for better than 15 years. Personal thing and I feel good about it.
Off soap-box.

YukonRon · July 2016

I buy what I like. I will spend to get what I want. I want a quality product with consistant results. If it was Royal Oak, ok. I found Rockwood. I am good.

bgeaddikt · July 2016

xfire_ATX said:

stlcharcoal said:

UPS calculated how much time they would save by removing the driver's steps into their trucks from 3 down to 2.

I like how UPS/ FED EX figured it was cheaper to just leave it on the step rather than find a neighbor and if its stolen to just pay for it.

Or during peak season(cyber monday, thanksgiving, christmas) they would allow no more then one 10 minute break for our 12+ hour shifts loading 18 wheelers with No A/C inside a warehouse that has been baking in the Texas heat all day. Couldn't tell you how many people passed out or walked out within the hour on their first day. All to cut corners and raise production #'s.

KiterTodd · July 2016

bgeaddikt said:

Or during peak season(cyber monday, thanksgiving, christmas) they would allow no more then one 10 minute break for our 12+ hour shifts loading 18 wheelers with No A/C inside a warehouse that has been baking in the Texas heat all day. Couldn't tell you how many people passed out or walked out within the hour on their first day. All to cut corners and raise production #'s.

Wouldn't their unions protect them from those kind of working conditions?

Pretty sad either way. Although I know a couple UPS drivers who seem happy with the company.

msloan · July 2016

Lit said:

This thread is stupid. It's not Royal Oak doing anything it's the retailers. It's like me saying Rockwood sucks because they raised their prices 20%because ace is charging $25 a bag when firecraft is $21. It's not the company doing it.

do you really believe that? you honestly believe that the manufacturer has no say what so ever in what they charge for the product they created when they sell it wholesale to retailers?????

if they have no input into what the value of their product is that they created and incurred all the cost to create then how do they make profit? and how do they increase or maintain profit when the cost of creating the goods increase? do you think they never pass along those increases to retailers?

i'm not saying retailers dont play a part in this but come on, giving the manufacturer a pass is not applicable in this scenario.

tarheelmatt · July 2016

I say you call Royal Oak just like this guy called Jimmy Dean sausage.

https://youtu.be/f4RNb3tt0LM

DieselkW · July 2016

Surprised no one commented on the original theft of the per pound size - Coffee.
16oz is now 12oz and still the price is jacked. Those "bricks" are 11.5oz.

Laundry detergent, something you can make yourself in a half hour for 10¢ a gallon, gets the word "Ultra" printed on the label, reduced to 30% of the package size, and people believe they will use less. The trick is, the bottle lid used to measure a typical load is not 1/3 the size, it's half the size of the formula that was not "Ultra".

Notice the diameter of the toothpaste tube opening is slightly larger recently?
I still fill the brush anyway, out of habit.

Lump? It costs more per BTU than natural gas or electricity, but is cost effective over running the oven because it doesn't make my AC work harder to remove the heat that escapes the oven.

So, I'm more than happy to pay more for lump, the fact that the bag is smaller is just an inconvenience in having to open bags more often.

Done with Royal Oak

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