First brisket = complete disaster.

malligator · March 2016

I ran to Costco Friday afternoon to get some things and, to my surprise, saw whole Prime packer briskets. I was still intimidated by the idea of smoking a whole brisket, but I decided to pick one up and give it a go. As you can see from my thread title it didn't go so well. I think I made a mistake thinking it would be just like a pork butt. I trimmed it a little, rubbed it, put it on the BGE with a maverick stuck in it, and waited until 203F.

It was all around pretty bad--way overdone and burnt. I tasted some, but it didn't even make it for dinner. We bagged it and just threw it in the fridge.

First, I have to admit, that even though I was maintaining the BGE around 275 most of the day we totally forgot it was the Saturday before Easter so some things we'd planned to take care of on Sunday had to be done Saturday. Therefore, the brisket was unattended for a couple of hours and the BGE drifted up to about 310F.

The biggest issue was that a majority of the bottom was burnt to a crisp. It was almost impossible to cut and even harder to chew. Was that due to cooking too long, or too hot, or without a water pan underneath?

Second was the overall doneness. I watched a video saying 203 so that's what I went to. I later found out some people don't even measure the temp. They "probe" looking for it to feel like "buttah". How is that done?

Lastly, was the fat. I don't think I trimmed it enough so there was way too much fat on it. The portion I ate made me a little uneasy in the stomach because it was so fatty.

Anyway, it's good food. I'll eat it, but I don't ever want to mistreat a brisket like this again. If you could just help me fix the burned bottom my next brisket will be 100% better.

Setup:

I wanted a baseline setup with nothing fancy so...

LBGE indirect with PS
RO lump
Hickory smoking chunks (probably 3/4 to 1" cubes)

lousubcap · March 2016

Brisket is all about the feel as are many other cooks. Below are a few links that may be of value for the next go-round:
http://www.amazingribs.com/recipes/beef/texas_brisket.html

http://www.bubbatim.com/
http://www.nakedwhiz.com/recipes.htm
http://playingwithfireandsmoke.blogspot.com/1996/03/brisket.html ;

Also check out the Aaron Franklin brisket videos on brisket-great info.

You can add big green egg to a google query which will bring up several threads on the brisket cook.

The finish-line for ribs, butt, brisket is all about the feel-temp is only a guide. For brisket-it's all with the feel in the thickest part of the flat. Give that an approach and you will likely have a great cook. FWIW-

Edit: no need for a water pan but you do need an air-gapped drip pan on your heat-deflector. And make sure all of the brisket is protected from direct heat. I have a LBGE and will drape the brisket over a brick til the shrinkage (no cold water) takes over or go with foil if not that much. I have been known to wrap the thinest part of the flat in foil for a good portion of the cook as well. FWIW-

Doc_Eggerton · March 2016

I heavily trim fat off and use only oak. when the internal hits 160 I foil it and pour a cup of black coffee in. I am careful not to let it get quite as hot as you did. Those are much smaller wood chunks than I use, I wonder if they could have ignited while you weren't in attendance and given you an even higher temperature spike. You may have seen the 310 temp as a falling off rather than a rising up.

bhedges1987 · March 2016

Damn briskets!

MaC122 · March 2016

Man i feel your pain. Ive wasted hundreds of dollars trying to get a brisket right. Just like @lousubcap siad, get advice. Wrap your brisket at 165 with butcher paper so the bark dose not get crunchy. The best briskets Ive ever had are real floppy when you shake them at the market. Real loose that you should want to slap someone across the face with it and feel happy. Higher the quality the better the results.

YukonRon · March 2016

@lousubcap has been a big help giving me guidance through my brisket cooks.
I typically go at a lower temp, indirect, thickest part towards the back.
I use several chunks of smoking wood mixed throughout the lump, and use a slightly elevated pan off the PS, never using water.
I use heavy dose of salt, black pepper, garlic, onion, turbido, and smoked paprika. Choose whatever you like for a rub.
I let it ride until I can probe with a wooden toothpick, then pull.( I start checking around 190F) I wrap in paper, then in a towel and place it in a cooler for a couple hours, then serve.
Make sure to give your egg plenty of time to rid itself of heavy white smoke before cooking. It may take an hour or so.
Bottom vent open the width of the cradle of a golf tee, DW open the width of the point of the Tee. Should keep you around 225F-250F.
Don't worry too much about the fat, you can trim off as much as you want after the cook.
The better grade of meat always provides a better cook.
Hope this helps.

lousubcap · March 2016

@YukonRon - thanks for the mention. That said, his summary above contains a wealth of info. You can never inhale too much info on brisket but if you only check one source, give the Franklin brisket videos a good look. The cook is not that much of a challenge, just go forth and do great things.

blasting · March 2016

You'll get it. I'll just add that overdone brisket still makes phenomenal chili.

xiphoid007 · March 2016

The more you read and watch, you will find that nailing a brisket is not easy. It seems like the more you do. I've only done a couple, but each time it gets better.

Just cook one, read, get suggestions, read more, and repeat. You'll get there!

I trim as Aaron Franklin states in his videos. I like to cook fat and point down to protect from direct heat. Makes sense to me, but you'll hear other opinions.

Good luck on the next one. It can only get better!

GregW · March 2016

I've only cooked a couple of briskets in my 20 yrs of owning an egg.
Both times ended badly.
Being in the Heart of Dixie Pork District, I've decided to leave the briskets to the beef professionals from now on.
I have the highest respect for people who have mastered this vexing cut.

DoubleEgger · March 2016

Here's my .02 for what it's worth.

You mentioned that the bottom was burnt to a crisp. Try fat cap on the bottom if you didn't do so this time. The fat cap is an insulator. I don't see the temp drifting up to 310 as a big issue. I would check your gauge as it could off and the actually temps were much hotter. At brisket camp #1, Nola and Scottie were turboing briskets at upwards of 400F. As others have mentioned, simple waiting on a desired temp will lead to brisket failure. It is unlikely that a prime brisket would go all the way until 203F. Generally speaking, the higher grade of brisket, the lower the final temp. I've cooked SRF briskets that have been done in the low 180s. Make sure your main temp probe is in the thickest part of the flat. The temp probe only gets you in the ballpark of the finish. Probing refers to taking a probe and poking around the flat of the briskets especially the thick parts. The probe will go into the meat quite easily as if if you are sticking a probe in room temp butter. If there is sticking or it doesn't go in easily, then it's not done. If you probe and every spot is like butter with the exception of a single small spot, I'd pull it as the brisket will likely be overdone if you wait too long for a single spot to be ready. The FTC will likely take care of that spot anyway. The main thing to know about brisket is when to take it off.

NPHuskerFL · March 2016

She can be a cruel mistress until you find out how she likes daddy to give it to her. Figure that part out and you'll have her licked. As you can see if a hundred eggheads respond to the question posed you'll get damn near a hundred different answers. Find out what works for you. KISS until you get good results. This includes everything from the rub, egg set up, temp etc. One thing...pull when it probes like buttuh (using a instant read thermo and test in several spots in the thickest part of the flat). Good Luck on the next one.

SGH · March 2016

malligator said:

If you could just help me fix the burned bottom my next brisket will be 100% better.

LBGE indirect with PS

I would like to touch on the burned bottom issue if I may. I myself have a large BGE and plate setter. With that said, I use the plate setter for almost everything except brisket and ribs.
The biggest reason being due to the limited size and the odd shape of the plate setter, complete shadowing or coverage is almost impossible when cooking brisket and large racks of ribs. Not saying that it can't be done, but it's a real challenge with large briskets. And the larger the briskets get, the more challenging that it becomes due to over hang.
Your best bet if you want to keep using the plate setter is to invest in a 16" round aluminum pan. That is as large as will sit down into the plate setter. The pan accomplishes four things. First it increases the coverage providing more indirect area to cook. Second, it cuts down the on the heat radiated by the plate setter. Especially if you leave a small air gap between the pan and plate setter. Third, it makes a excellent drip pan that can be used with any meat, not just brisket. Fourth, it can be used as a water pan if you should ever chose to use a water pan for certain cooks.
This next bit of info is just something that works well for me. Others mileage may vary so take it for what it's worth. Due to how a kamado is set up and how it cooks, I prefer to cook brisket with the fat cap down on the BGE. We can argue all day about the merits of fat cap up or fat cap down. But one thing that remains a fact is if the fat cap is turned down, the fat it's self acts as a barrier to help protect the meat from radiated heat from the indirect piece. This is not even debatable as it's simply a fact. It's for this same reason that the fat cap is turned up on certain types of cookers. To provide protection from the heat and draft. Again, I have no doubt that billions of Brisket Gods the world over turn the fat cap up everyday on the BGE and get stellar results. However I find more consistent and repeatable results by turning it down when cooking on the BGE. Just thought I would share my thoughts my friend. Good luck in the future.

Worthy of mention:
As great and as useful as the Franklin videos are, don't get to hung up on trying to copy his trim technique to a Tee unless you are using a naturally aspirated, side drafting offset and are buying the best grade prime beef that money can buy. While his trim advice is fantastic, it's geared more to his style of cooking rather than backyard cooking on a BGE. As an example, he is cooking upwards of 50 at a time. Each brisket added to the cooker moves and manipulates the draft. Thus, he trims accordingly. You are only cooking 1, not 50+. So adjust your trim to the quality of the meat that you are cooking, and to what you are cooking on.

Theophan · March 2016

I'm glad @SGH addressed the burnt bottom, because that seems like a mysterious and really important clue to me. I don't understand it. If it was just the few edge parts that maybe overhung where the plate setter is allowing direct radiant heat from the fire to rise, then it's not a mystery, and all of the stuff everyone is saying to you makes sense to me.

But you said the majority of the bottom was burnt to a crisp, and to me that means something really odd was happening, and maybe the more general advice you've gotten isn't relevant. It's really, really hard for me to picture a brisket getting burned over the entire bottom with a plate setter in place, the dome temperature never getting higher than 310°, and the internal temperature never rising above 203°. The whole purpose of the plate setter is to make cooking indirect, so the bottom shouldn't get burned at moderate temps. If the temp got up to pizza range that might be different, but a carbonized bottom cooking indirect? Something funny going on. I've never had anything even remotely similar to that on a pork butt or a brisket, though I admit I've never gotten a packer in my area, only flats, which of course don't cook as long.

Did you have the plate setter in legs up, with the grid, and meat, then, several inches above the surface of the plate setter?

Did you have the temperature of the Egg stable for a while before putting the meat in (at least 20 minutes-half an hour)?

I'm not the expert others are, here, but I really feel like that burnt bottom is telling us something important about what went wrong. Do you all who do a lot of brisket disagree?

malligator · March 2016

I really appreciate all the advice. I'll comment on parts of it later, but...right now I have to admit one thing that may cause some giggles. So...I'm a newbie griller. I am used to sticking the temp probe in the thickest part of the meat to ensure it's cooked to a safe temp. Obviously, looking back on it, that's unnecessary on a brisket. You can imagine how fried the flat will be when the center of the point is 203F. Yup. I did that.

I now know ... and it makes more sense ... that the flat is the part I should be using to decide when it's done.

SMITTYtheSMOKER · March 2016

bingo

Ladeback69 · March 2016

malligator said:

I really appreciate all the advice. I'll comment on parts of it later, but...right now I have to admit one thing that may cause some giggles. So...I'm a newbie griller. I am used to sticking the temp probe in the thickest part of the meat to ensure it's cooked to a safe temp. Obviously, looking back on it, that's unnecessary on a brisket. You can imagine how fried the flat will be when the center of the point is 203F. Yup. I did that.

I now know ... and it makes more sense ... that the flat is the part I should be using to decide when it's done.

Are you using a dual probe on your egg, that herlpos me a lot. Put the least probe in the thickest part of the flat and the other on the grate next to a few inches away. Those helped me monitor what's going on. Most of them have alarms you can set for when it gets to 190-195, that's when I start probing all over with my ThermoPop to see if it is soft like butter all over. I agree, fat cap down usually use a drip tray made out of foil on top of the plate Setter that is covered in foil. Don't give up and give it a try again, but try not to have to much else going on so you can monitor it until you get a few good ones under your belt. Better luck next time.

lousubcap · March 2016

@malligator - every brisket is different and monitoring the point is the likely culprit here. However, on the great majority of briskets I cook I see the point running around 10-15*F hotter than the flat. And because of its high fat content, that's not an issue. The point is just along for the ride.
Regardless, the cow always dictates the cook.

theyolksonyou · March 2016

Perhaps the probe was in the fat vein?

Foghorn · March 2016

Theophan said:

I'm glad @SGH addressed the burnt bottom, because that seems like a mysterious and really important clue to me. I don't understand it. If it was just the few edge parts that maybe overhung where the plate setter is allowing direct radiant heat from the fire to rise, then it's not a mystery, and all of the stuff everyone is saying to you makes sense to me.

But you said the majority of the bottom was burnt to a crisp, and to me that means something really odd was happening, and maybe the more general advice you've gotten isn't relevant. It's really, really hard for me to picture a brisket getting burned over the entire bottom with a plate setter in place, the dome temperature never getting higher than 310°, and the internal temperature never rising above 203°. The whole purpose of the plate setter is to make cooking indirect, so the bottom shouldn't get burned at moderate temps. If the temp got up to pizza range that might be different, but a carbonized bottom cooking indirect? Something funny going on. I've never had anything even remotely similar to that on a pork butt or a brisket, though I admit I've never gotten a packer in my area, only flats, which of course don't cook as long.

Did you have the plate setter in legs up, with the grid, and meat, then, several inches above the surface of the plate setter?

Did you have the temperature of the Egg stable for a while before putting the meat in (at least 20 minutes-half an hour)?

I'm not the expert others are, here, but I really feel like that burnt bottom is telling us something important about what went wrong. Do you all who do a lot of brisket disagree?

@Theophan, this makes total sense to me because it has happened to me multiple times. On briskets and on ribs. The firebox had enough fire going to get the BGE (dome) thermometer to 275 when it is sitting above a big cold piece of meat - and then the fire cranked up enough to get the dome temp to get up to 310. It is not surprising at all that the platesetter was hotter than that and the radiant heat from the ceramic overcooked the bottom of the meat.

I've never had this happen when I have a very stable fire and I keep the temp below 250 - but when I (intentionally or otherwise) cook at higher temps I have had it happen a couple of times. That's why I now "custom" make a very large drip pan out of 2 layers of high density aluminum foil - and set it on some foil balls to get a layer of air between it and the platesetter.

And now that I have done this a number of times with success, I have developed the confidence to cook with the fat side up and it seems to me that I get better results. This may seem initially contradictory to what @SGH says, but it really isn't. With this set-up there is no heat rising directly on to the bottom of the meat and it seems to actually cook a little faster from the top - presumably from the radiant heat of the ceramic dome.

I hope this makes sense.

malligator · March 2016

I didn't have any sort of drip pan underneath. Can fat drippings fuel the fire enough to actually increase the internal temp of the BGE high enough and long enough to actually matter? I always figured the drip pan was only necessary if you wanted to do something with the drippings. I figured if you didn't then there was no harm in letting them drip down and burn away.

lousubcap · March 2016

Dome temp is dome temp-if you had a good gap between the platesetter and your brisket then the air-gap is a very effective heat insulator. About all I can offer is that the drippings (and the quantity is pretty impressive with a brisket) self-combusted and did the dirty deed in a localized fashion. No personal experience here but an air-gapped (off the heat deflector) pan would be my solution. FWIW-

Theophan · March 2016

Foghorn said:

@Theophan, this makes total sense to me because it has happened to me multiple times. On briskets and on ribs. The firebox had enough fire going to get the BGE (dome) thermometer to 275 when it is sitting above a big cold piece of meat - and then the fire cranked up enough to get the dome temp to get up to 310. It is not surprising at all that the platesetter was hotter than that and the radiant heat from the ceramic overcooked the bottom of the meat.

I've never had this happen when I have a very stable fire and I keep the temp below 250 - but when I (intentionally or otherwise) cook at higher temps I have had it happen a couple of times. That's why I now "custom" make a very large drip pan out of 2 layers of high density aluminum foil - and set it on some foil balls to get a layer of air between it and the platesetter...

Wow -- I'm surprised! I've never done a packer because I've never seen one in my area, so maybe that makes the difference. But I still can't help wondering if the crucial thing is your "I've never had this happen when I have a very stable fire..." It seems to me that if the whole Egg is hot, including the dome, the heat rising around the plate setter should be enough to keep the Egg hot, it seems to me, without the fire having to be an awful lot hotter.

I've always had a drip pan just sitting directly on the plate setter, and I've never had the bottom of a pork butt, a brisket flat, or ribs get burnt on the bottom. Again, though, a packer is a much larger piece of meat, or can be, anyway, so maybe that makes the difference.

Thanks for sharing your experience -- it's helpful!

westernbbq · March 2016

I would say way too hot. 300 degrees will burn the brisket. i do packers at 210 for 1.5 hr per lb, cranking heat up to 275 for last 2 hrs if meat temp hasnt hit 190 yet. Works without fail. Drip pan underneath with beer it it and i crutch it in foil for last two hrs and pour all drippings in with the meat.

I also use a guru set up. It is spendy but has saved me countless hours, aggravation and wasted meat dollars by maintaining a rock steady consistent temperature. If you can swing it, get a guru. You will be happy you did.

Good luck, keep at it and things will click. Youll never look back.

Egg On!

Jai-Bo · March 2016

My best brisket was 18 hours at 225. Around 180 internal, I'll pull and foil. Then depending on if you want it to fall apart or cut pull at 195 and fall apart at 205. I've only done a handful though....

Foghorn · March 2016

Theophan said:

Foghorn said:

@Theophan, this makes total sense to me because it has happened to me multiple times. On briskets and on ribs. The firebox had enough fire going to get the BGE (dome) thermometer to 275 when it is sitting above a big cold piece of meat - and then the fire cranked up enough to get the dome temp to get up to 310. It is not surprising at all that the platesetter was hotter than that and the radiant heat from the ceramic overcooked the bottom of the meat.

I've never had this happen when I have a very stable fire and I keep the temp below 250 - but when I (intentionally or otherwise) cook at higher temps I have had it happen a couple of times. That's why I now "custom" make a very large drip pan out of 2 layers of high density aluminum foil - and set it on some foil balls to get a layer of air between it and the platesetter...

Wow -- I'm surprised! I've never done a packer because I've never seen one in my area, so maybe that makes the difference. But I still can't help wondering if the crucial thing is your "I've never had this happen when I have a very stable fire..." It seems to me that if the whole Egg is hot, including the dome, the heat rising around the plate setter should be enough to keep the Egg hot, it seems to me, without the fire having to be an awful lot hotter.

I've always had a drip pan just sitting directly on the plate setter, and I've never had the bottom of a pork butt, a brisket flat, or ribs get burnt on the bottom. Again, though, a packer is a much larger piece of meat, or can be, anyway, so maybe that makes the difference.

Thanks for sharing your experience -- it's helpful!

@Theophan, I think you are correct about a low temp fire that is stable being very important. And also recognize that I'm talking about cooks where no drip pan was used - only a naked platesetter. The ceramic gets quite hot with a fire directly beneath it. The first time this was a problem was when I did a turbo rib cook at 350 using a naked platesetter. Or, in the case that started this thread, think about the temp immediately under the platesetter, when the dome temp - sitting a couple of inches above a big hunk of cold meat - is 310.

I've had some great results cooking at higher temps - turbo butts and ribs at 350, briskets at 275-290, etc. but when you get to those temps, blocking direct rising AND radiant heat takes on more importance.

As far as the packer being a larger piece of meat, I think that may play a role in creating more of a gradient between grid temp and dome temp.

And to be clear, I'm not one of the brisket gods here so there may be more issues at play than I even realize. I just know that being pretty compulsive about blocking the rising and radiant heat has helped my cooking.

HDmstng · March 2016

SGH said:

Worthy of mention:
As great and as useful as the Franklin videos are, don't get to hung up on trying to copy his trim technique to a Tee unless you are using a naturally aspirated, side drafting offset and are buying the best grade prime beef that money can buy. While his trim advice is fantastic, it's geared more to his style of cooking rather than backyard cooking on a BGE. As an example, he is cooking upwards of 50 at a time. Each brisket added to the cooker moves and manipulates the draft. Thus, he trims accordingly. You are only cooking 1, not 50+. So adjust your trim to the quality of the meat that you are cooking, and to what you are cooking on.

Great discussion. What changes should be made for trimming a brisket for the Egg vs the offsets that Aaron F uses?

oldmandawg · March 2016

Join the crowd. But there's hope. The more you do em the more you learn.

First brisket = complete disaster.

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