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Sous Vide

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Rascal
Rascal Posts: 3,923
in EggHead Forum
I've read about this tenderizing method on numerous forums.  Some claim to treat beef @ 120F-140F  for extended periods of time, often going beyond the 4 hour safety window temperature of 40-140.  What gives here?  Even with a vacuum seal, certain bacteria can thrive and spread in this temperature range.   Can anyone 'splain this?
Muchos gracias!! 
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  • fishlessman
    fishlessman Posts: 32,766
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    ive seen a few times now if over 4 hours you want to be in the over 130 degree range, but i cant explain it either =)
    fukahwee maine

    you can lead a fish to water but you can not make him drink it
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  • Chris8938
    Chris8938 Posts: 156
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    The difference is since the meat is in an anaerobic environment, the only pathogens that you need to really worry about are the anaerobic bacteria.   Above 130 degrees, anaerobic bacteria do not do well, so that is why you want to stay above 130 degrees for long soaks.  Hope this helps.
    XL BGE, Lg BGE, MiniMax BGE, Mini BGE

    Appleton, WI 
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  • Little Steven
    Little Steven Posts: 28,817
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    Pasteurization occurs as a function of Delta/T. Normal cooking temps will kill most bugs immediately. You can cook at lower temps for longer periods and achieve the same thing. As @fishlessman says, you still want to be over 130* for red meats and I think 140* for most poultry. 

    Steve 

    Caledon, ON

     

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  • Carolina Q
    Carolina Q Posts: 14,831
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    Sorry, no help here. The only thing I've done is steak at 128. For an hour. I figured I'd investigate if/when I did anything more involved. 

    I hate it when I go to the kitchen for food and all I find are ingredients!                                                                                                                                                                                                                           

    Michael 
    Central Connecticut 

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  • fishlessman
    fishlessman Posts: 32,766
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    can anyone confirm the 140 for poultry, i want to write the temps down on my crockpot @Little Steven  did not know about the poultry temps, i did about 125 for 3 hours on boneless thighs, good thing i didnt go longer
    fukahwee maine

    you can lead a fish to water but you can not make him drink it
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  • Little Steven
    Little Steven Posts: 28,817
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    http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=sous+vide+chart&view=detailv2&&id=A3E03FB762927AD19167150A163CA66AC9126DF7&selectedIndex=1&ccid=BpydtsS6&simid=608014185573058080&thid=OIP.M069c9db6c4bacf29733c56a2cd095e9bo0&ajaxhist=0

    Steve 

    Caledon, ON

     

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  • JohnInCarolina
    JohnInCarolina Posts: 30,977
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    Rascal said:
    I've read about this tenderizing method on numerous forums.  Some claim to treat beef @ 120F-140F  for extended periods of time, often going beyond the 4 hour safety window temperature of 40-140.  What gives here?  Even with a vacuum seal, certain bacteria can thrive and spread in this temperature range.   Can anyone 'splain this?
    Muchos gracias!! 
    Many of us here like to live on the edge.  
    "I've made a note never to piss you two off." - Stike
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  • Spring Chicken
    Spring Chicken Posts: 10,255
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    Wikipedia has a good read on the sous vide process.

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sous-vide

    Spring "Sous Vide Trainee" Chicken
    Spring Texas USA
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  • nolaegghead
    nolaegghead Posts: 42,102
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    All food follows the same safety rule in sous vide.  Up to 4 hours under 130F.  No time limits over 130F (although there are minimum times based on the food and thickness for pasteurization).

    As far as using the technique to make food taste good, there are all kinds of time and temp formula.
    ______________________________________________
    I love lamp..
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  • Lit
    Lit Posts: 9,053
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    fishlessman said:
    ive seen a few times now if over 4 hours you want to be in the over 130 degree range, but i cant explain it either =)
    I believe my sous vide supreme said the lowest to go on chicken breasts was 142. Pretty sure it was higher for dark meat. I usually run at 145 just to be safe on chicken breasts.
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  • Lit
    Lit Posts: 9,053
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    @fishlessman this is what I use 
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  • SmokeyPitt
    SmokeyPitt Posts: 10,490
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    I think another factor is 140 is the FDA erring on the side of caution...leaving some "wiggle room" to account for the fact that most people don't have equipment to measure precisely.  For example, in restaurants they have 130 degree holding ovens for roasts.  They can hold prime rib for example all day at 130.  

    Which came first the chicken or the egg?  I egged the chicken and then I ate his leg. 

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  • paqman
    paqman Posts: 4,670
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    Safe sous-vide cooking temps are the same for all meats including poultry.  Cooking temp for poultry is a mather of texture rather than safety.

    Safe cooking temps for 4+ hours is 131F.

    I'll find you the source for that but it is either Baldwin or modernist cuisine.

    ____________________
    Entrepreneurs are simply those who understand that there is little difference between obstacle and opportunity and are able to turn both to their advantage. •Niccolo Machiavelli
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  • Lit
    Lit Posts: 9,053
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    paqman said:
    Safe sous-vide cooking temps are the same for all meats including poultry.  Cooking temp for poultry is a mather of texture rather than safety.

    Safe cooking temps for 4+ hours is 131F.

    I'll find you the source for that but it is either Baldwin or modernist cuisine.
    I think what you said above is somewhat true. You can cook chicken for 5 hours at 131 and it's not unsafe cooking it's just not safe to eat yet. The lowest I have ever read someone state to cook chicken so it's safe to eat was 142. 
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  • paqman
    paqman Posts: 4,670
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    Baldwin mentions the 131F temp once in the safety section based on one specific study that was apparently not reproduced.

    http://www.douglasbaldwin.com/sous-vide.html#Safety

    ____________________
    Entrepreneurs are simply those who understand that there is little difference between obstacle and opportunity and are able to turn both to their advantage. •Niccolo Machiavelli
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  • henapple
    henapple Posts: 16,025
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    Little Stepan knows everything. 
    Green egg, dead animal and alcohol. The "Boro".. TN 
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