maiden voyage for my TTT

Botch · May 2015

78 T140E said:
You can have PayPal set up a direct withdrawal from your bank. That's what I do some times if I don't want to use one of my credit cards.

78, that is wrong on so many levels....

I got my TTT a couple days ago (manufacturer lives in the same part of Minnesota my Mom is from, great to work with (he accepted a personal check from me)).
I took it into work today to show my coworkers (we're all geek engineers) and think I generated a couple more sales, like me they loved the simplicity of the mechanical feedback. Four-day weekend starts tomorrow night and am anxious to try it out!

YukonRon · May 2015

I suppose it will need to be re calibrated for extreme cold weather? If rain effects the bi metallic spring, I would reason lower temps outside would likely do the same?

rsterman · May 2015

If the TTT indeed turns out to be a good low-cost temp controller, why couldn't you alter your old top vent control thatnisn't used anymore because of the smokeware cap by taking off the daisy wheel portion and use the cast iron portion left as a base for the TTT to be magnetically attached to? ALso, does anyone understand how Eric reinhart's home-made top controller is different than this one?

RRP · May 2015

YukonRon said:

I suppose it will need to be re calibrated for extreme cold weather? If rain effects the bi metallic spring, I would reason lower temps outside would likely do the same?

I don't think it can be re-calibrated - you'll just need to figure what was a 3 setting in the summer needs to be a 2 in the winter is my guess. OTOH since the spring is such a tiny thing sitting in direct path of the heat and attached to the flapper which is also hot will winter's cold weather even affect it or not? Guess we'll see!

fishlessman · May 2015

you really dont need to know what the numbers are for, just bring the egg up to whatever dome temp your shooting for and gently back the flapper down to sit flat

YukonRon · May 2015

Ok, like shutting the daisy wheel when you get temp?

fishlessman · May 2015

YukonRon said:

Ok, like shutting the daisy wheel when you get temp?

exactly, and it will hold that temp perfectly all night. the problem with the daisy is the lower vent needs to be fine tned in as well for low and slows, thats not as important with the ttt unless its extremely windy

YukonRon · May 2015

fishlessman said:

YukonRon said:

Ok, like shutting the daisy wheel when you get temp?

exactly, and it will hold that temp perfectly all night. the problem with the daisy is the lower vent needs to be fine tned in as well for low and slows, thats not as important with the ttt unless its extremely windy

Ok, thanks! I have a DigiQ, I suppose that its performance will only be enhanced?

Thatgrimguy · May 2015

YukonRon said:

fishlessman said:

YukonRon said:

Ok, like shutting the daisy wheel when you get temp?

exactly, and it will hold that temp perfectly all night. the problem with the daisy is the lower vent needs to be fine tned in as well for low and slows, thats not as important with the ttt unless its extremely windy

Ok, thanks! I have a DigiQ, I suppose that its performance will only be enhanced?

This is a replacement for that. I would use something like this on my higher temp cooks and reserve my Digiq for the low temp stuff. But really, if you already have the DigiQ this isn't necessary.

YukonRon · May 2015

Thatgrimguy said:

YukonRon said:

fishlessman said:

YukonRon said:

Ok, like shutting the daisy wheel when you get temp?

exactly, and it will hold that temp perfectly all night. the problem with the daisy is the lower vent needs to be fine tned in as well for low and slows, thats not as important with the ttt unless its extremely windy

Ok, thanks! I have a DigiQ, I suppose that its performance will only be enhanced?

This is a replacement for that. I would use something like this on my higher temp cooks and reserve my Digiq for the low temp stuff. But really, if you already have the DigiQ this isn't necessary.

Wow, thanks for the clarification. I think I got a grip now.

78 T140E · May 2015

Botch said:

78 T140E said:
You can have PayPal set up a direct withdrawal from your bank. That's what I do some times if I don't want to use one of my credit cards.

78, that is wrong on so many levels....
.....

???? How is it wrong? Just because you're paranoid doing business with PayPal does not make it wrong.

Botch · May 2015

78 T140E said:

Botch said:

78 T140E said:
You can have PayPal set up a direct withdrawal from your bank. That's what I do some times if I don't want to use one of my credit cards.

78, that is wrong on so many levels....
.....
???? How is it wrong? Just because you're paranoid doing business with PayPal does not make it wrong.

I'm not paranoid with doing business with paypal, they refuse to do business with me.
And it is wrong because: they won't accept my credit card, there's nothing wrong with my credit card, for four years they've refused to answer my inquiries, and you're suggesting I give them direct access to my bank accounts?!?!?

Hello?!?!!??

Sorry if I came off a bit harsh, but there you go. fwiw.

RRP · May 2015

@Botch - I can understand your frustration. But have you tried to get a human being involved on the phone and then insisted that he/she then get his/her supervisor on the phone with you?

For a couple years now I have not been able to increase my monthly withdrawal limit - that ticks me off since it is MY MONEY but they want to limit how much of MY money I can get! I have repeatedly gone through the HELP screens and even had email dialogue which always were nothing more than links to their HELP screen answers. I have just let it go BUT this week I decided I would get it resolved or else!

After a 10 minute hold I had some lady from half way around the globe on...I patiently walked with her through my problems and how at each step she tried to help me with did not work. I then calmly said "would you PLEASE have your supervisor get on this call with us." I swear he got on and within 20 seconds the issue had been resolved as he over rode whatever it was that was causing my account log jam!

Try it - be nice, BUT be persistent!

Botch · May 2015

RRP said:

@Botch - I can understand your frustration. But have you tried to get a human being involved on the phone and then insisted that he/she then get his/her supervisor on the phone with you?

For a couple years now I have not been able to increase my monthly withdrawal limit - that ticks me off since it is MY MONEY but they want to limit how much of MY money I can get! I have repeatedly gone through the HELP screens and even had email dialogue which always were nothing more than links to their HELP screen answers. I have just let it go BUT this week I decided I would get it resolved or else!

After a 10 minute hold I had some lady from half way around the globe on...I patiently walked with her through my problems and how at each step she tried to help me with did not work. I then calmly said "would you PLEASE have your supervisor get on this call with us." I swear he got on and within 20 seconds the issue had been resolved as he over rode whatever it was that was causing my account log jam!

Try it - be nice, BUT be persistent!

Thanks for the tips Ron.
But, I really don't want to do business with a company that makes it that difficult to do business through them. Why should I? I'd rather let every vendor that I can know how evil paypal can be (and this wonderful guy in Minnesota told me he'd be looking for alternate forms of payment, good on him!).

Botch · May 2015

RRP said:

Try it - be nice,

Oh yeah, meant to mention, I'M ALWAYS NICE DAMMITTTT!!!!

78 T140E · May 2015

Botch said:

RRP said:

Try it - be nice,

Oh yeah, meant to mention, I'M ALWAYS NICE DAMMITTTT!!!!

Yeah, sure you are.

4Runner · May 2015

nice thing about the TTT, if it gets so out of whack over time due to various reasons, you just toss it and get another one...so cheap. If I didn't have a Stoker, I would order one in a heartbeat.

EggHead_Bubba · May 2015

Really interested in a TTT but before I buy I need to know two things. Will it fit on my Large BGE and will it stay put when I lift the dome. One other question, will it maintain 225° or is that too low for this device?

Thanks!

Wowens · May 2015

It does not come with anything to make it stay on when you open the lid. You will have to come up with something. I've got an XL, and I'm going to try to get some ducting, and make a sleev to hold it in place.

I've never tried 225, but it did fine at 250.

EggHead_Bubba · May 2015

@Wowens... so it'll take some sort of rig to get it to stay in place. I can probably come up with something for that. How about the seal? It seems to me that it would need to seal decently where it rests on the top of the BGE.

Wowens · May 2015

It has a little rubberband at the base that seals it. It actually seems to seal it pretty well.

Botch · May 2015

Tried mine out today for the first time. I'm amazed at how well it worked!
I let the thermometer in my Large go up to 230, put the TTT on set at "Zero", and then kept turning the dial open as the damper kept closing, until it stopped moving (took about 30 seconds in all). It kept my Egg between 230 and 240 the entire cook, I am impressed!

Two things: yeah, I can see this won't work when its raining or even the slightest breeze (blowing on the spring will shut the damper down). Secondly, I will get either a Smokeware cap or some other adapter, it doesn't sit on the Large egg very well at all (although the rubber band seal worked).

THEBuckeye · May 2015

Egg Blasphemy!

bettysnephew · May 2015

I have a very gusty back deck area and the opening/closing seems to work well to maintain the temperature near setpoint. I was concerned also when I first saw it working but it actually helped retard the changes I normally see when grilling. I have tried to operate like @Mickey does with no daisy wheel or Smokeware cap and my temperatures are all over the place if there is any breeze at all. I think you will be surprised how well it will work in a bit of wind.

Zmokin · June 2015

my first real use of my Tip top Temp, dialed in with the 2 straight up was 240F Dome temp, 3.5 = 310F and I think 4.0 was a tad under 350F.

Botch · June 2015

Tried this on my Small awhile back and it worked even better: it fits around the smokestack, not on top of it, and won't fall off if you open the lid. Rawk!

GregW · June 2015

The Tip Top damper is an interesting design. It may very well work for basic temperature control when close control is not a requirement.
The primary problem using a butterfly damper to do temperature control is the air flow through the damper is not linear. That is to say 25% open is equal to 75% of the maximum flow the damper is capable of.

The Tip Top damper attempts to compensate for the non linear flow by sizing the damper smaller. It is not uncommon to see a butterfly damper sized much smaller than the pipe it is being installed in. That is to say a 8 inch pipe may have a 6 inch or smaller butterfly installed. This downsizing is used to make the flow more linear.

I think as long as you were cooking at fairly high temperatures the damper may work. I think using the bimetal for temperature control would make it very susceptible to ambient temperature and rain.

This design would not control well when the damper is mostly closed or wide open. it needs be in the center of its throttling range. The proper setting of the bottom damper would help the Tip Top control better. I would think the bottom damper would need to be partially closed.

My area of expertise is temperature control of air conditioning systems (HVAC)
I do HVAC control system design and programming. We do direct digital control systems (DDC)

I have had a bbq guru that died and now currently use a stoker for temp control. I can build my own temp control setup, however my solution would have a decidedly industrial look and feel. I also can't compete with the prices. My design would cost much more and not be nearly as elegant. The same holds true for Sous Vide.

bettysnephew · June 2015

FWIW, even though the device is somewhat primitive it does a pretty fair job of control as long as it doesn't rain. We're not talking one or maybe even five degree resolution but once set mine holds well within cooking tolerances. If you want a real eye opener sometime, track the temperature swings of an electric oven. I think you might be surprised by the excursions even after it has settled in. An Egg with just damper control holds far closer, likely due to the thermal mass of the ceramic.

GregW · June 2015

Yes, it's not uncommon to see a 25 deg temp swing in an electric oven. That's the nature of on/off control of the electric element.
Temp controllers such as the Guru and Stoker do what is called pulse width modulation of the combustion vent fan. This is done because even if you controlled the fan to a lower speed it is still too much air. The solution is to pulse the fan on/off.
I am amazed at how well the Guru/Stoker do in controlling the temp. Coming from a programming background I know how difficult the tuning of the control temp loop is.

The large thermal mass of the egg can work for or against you in controlling the temp. If you ever get the temp too high the party is over. The temperature will oscillate wildly from overshoot to undershoot without proper loop tuning.

The daisy wheel does a remarkable job of stabilizing and controlling the temp. The only thing wrong with the wheel is it requires readjusting to compensate for the changing draft conditions due to the charcoal being burned up. The burned up charcoal changes the airflow through the fire box necessitating the adjustment of the daisy wheel. This is why you wake up in the night to check the egg on a low and slow only to find the egg is either too hot or the fire has essentially went out.

The Guru/Stoker handles all the draft compensation for you automatically. Now I know true fire building experts can load the lump in such a way to help stabilize the draft during the entire cook. Unfortunately I'm not that expert.

bettysnephew · June 2015

I am a bit familiar with PID loops having worked as an industrial maintenance tech for a major appliance manufacturer for five years and in the packaged food industry for 38 years. All the way from 3-15 huff and puff, Partlow electric, 4-20 loops and a lengthy series of Allen Bradley PLCs. You can do wondrous things with active devices. Sometimes it just doesn't need to be all that technical to get the job done. My active controller of choice is the original Flame Boss with industrial type K thermocouples and variable dc speed control on the fan output. If I had my way it would have been a VFD but you can't have everything in one package I guess.

maiden voyage for my TTT

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