Knife angle suggestions

wbradking · May 2015

I'm kind of embarrassed about this, but I suck at sharpening knives. I'm an Eagle Scout and really should be able to do a better job. After years of trying different sharpeners and stones combined with my lack of skill, I finally broke down last week and ordered myself a Work Sharp Ken Onion Edition which should arrive tomorrow. From the reviews here on the forum, I'm hoping this is the last device I'll need. Anyway, on to the question: I've got a set of Wusthof Classics and my go-to is the 10" Chef's knife, but I've got a slicer, paring knife and a utility knife. What's a good angle to sharpen these knives?

Ozzie_Isaac · May 2015

Best angle is subjective. @SGH is the go to knife guru.

RRP · May 2015

No need to apologize! BUT I would suggest that you get the precise angle information according to the mfg of EACH knife. ONE size does NOT fit all and you can ruin an expensive knife in a heart beat!

Begger · May 2015

From the look of it, the 'onion sharpens ONE direction on side 'a' and the OTHER direction on side 'b' when you flip it over. Is that right? I'd use it on my Machette, but NOTHING more critical.

Go to SPYDERCO and check out the ceramic sharpener. This is fairly easy to use and yields great results.

Also, IMO, knives should be bought on 2 criteria only.

1. Comfort / fit of handle for YOU.
2. STEEL type. names like '440A' or '440B' are inexpensive, but good steels.
My Cutco Knives are 440A but WAY over priced for that steel. Comfort is tops.

There are DOZENS of steels available. The Japanese, for example use VG-1 or VG-10 or even AUS-8, which are all good choices. Some of the very hardest steels can get brittle and/or be difficult to sharpen. H-1 Steel will NOT corrode and is the steel of choice for dive knives and blades used in salt water.
A given steel can be hardened to various levels, some of which are TOO hard for good use.

Different knives and manufacturers sharpen to different angles. A very narrow angle produces an easily folded or chipped blade. Knives for skinning, for example, are at a lesser angle and a much more durable one, at that.

My sharpening 'kit' includes a coarse stone and medium stone, both 'synthetic'.
I have a very fine WASHITA stone which is natural. For kitchen knives which should NEVER get to that point, I have a 1200 grit CERAMIC hone and a 600 grit DIAMOND hone. Both look like traditional steel hone 'rods'.

I borrow a diamond 'plate' when I have to sharpen my wood plane.

Pick ONE knife and work it until you LEARN its angle and 'feel' for sharpening. Hand sharpening requires some practice and old-school patience.

Next on the 'list' is a leather strop.

HeavyG · May 2015

Don’t let anyone tell you otherwise - the Ken Onion Worksharp is a decent, easy to use system and is a good choice for the casual sharpener.

Most German knives have edge angles in the 20°-22° range. Some folks take them lower but the lower the angle the more prone to chipping the edge which means more upkeep.

AR_Pork_Producer · May 2015

I believe that this sharpener has only two built in angles that you can use, but it will get a blade scary sharp.

Chubbs · May 2015

I am terrible at sharpening knives too. I might pull the trigger on the ken onion as well. Following this.

gdenby · May 2015

I'd be willing to guess that your earlier problems w. sharpening were due to not keeping the same angle all along the edge. As I started to pay attention to sharpening, I used a magnifying glass to inspect what I was doing, and found that I wasn't producing a consistent edge at all. The Work Sharp should take care of that.

Most of the European style knives made of stainless steel until the past few years could not hold an edge lower than 20°, and some as high as 24°. You will learn what each of your knives is capable of with practice. If I recall correctly, industry standard work horse knives, like Dexter-Russell are made w. the same steel as the much more expensive Lamson. The difference is that the Lamson's steel is heat treated, and significantly harder.

I suspect that once you get your current knives well sharpened, you might start buy even better ones. At this point, I don't consider anything higher than a 15° bevel per side to be a truly sharp blade. The down side is that the metals are so hard that it can be very difficult to bring them to their finest edge. But it is really very nice to have knives that are so sharp that when onions are sliced, the cook doesn't start crying.

travisstrick · May 2015

Eagle Scout here. The more delicate you plan on being with the knife the more acute the blade can be. I stick to around 20degrees for most of my knives.

The he work shop is a great sharpener. I use a much more expensive and precise sharpener but only because I enjoy using it. The work snap is a good system. I've used them plenty.

Austin Egghead · May 2015

All good advice and you purchased a good product. Follow manufacture's angle recommendations. AND remember to keep the fingers folded in. With a good sharp knife you will notice the excess blood before you feel the pain.

hondabbq · May 2015

I worked under a Japanese chef with incredible credentials. His way (the Japanese way) was to sharpen with the knife flat on stones, thus having no bevel at all. I changed all my knives to this standard. I have a selection of Glestains, Wustof Tridents, and some cheaper Victorianox. The lesser knives don't hold the edge as long but it just takes a few swipes on the steel to get it back up to snuff

fishlessman · May 2015

my rule of thumb is 15 to 20 on most american and european knives and zero to 15 on the better japanese knives, ive even got one japanese knife ground almost flat oneside and a negative hollowed out back side. when you go to finer angles you need to upgrade the cutting board to end grain

wbradking · May 2015

Thanks for the feedback everyone. I did a little research on Wusthof's web site and saw conflicting information where they recommend anywhere between a 20* and 14* angle. I'm going to set it for 20* and go with that and maybe adjust down the road if I'm feeling adventurous.

And as for some of the comments above, yes I'm pretty sure I can't keep a consistent angle between the blade and the stone when I try to sharpen. I guess I never developed a feel for it.

dougcrann · May 2015

Recently got an Edge Pro Apex. I changed the angle on some of the Bosses blades. Took a while for her to get,used to the new angle as certain things tend to get "stuck" on the blade...talked to a knife builder, he said that is from the stictio...or sumtin like that...

gdenby · May 2015

The "stiction" problem might be from the side of the blade above the edge being too smooth. Or, alternatively, not smooth enough. There are quite a few knives available that have dimpled blades, or the Japanese style with hammer marks everywhere but the edge. This is to allow air pockets that nothing sticks to. I've polished a few blades up to mirror smooth, and haven't noticed any sticking from those. But I usually make draw cuts, which seems to spread the water thinly enough over the blade face that sticking is minimal. I've put mirror faces on a few edges, but the rest of the blade has fine vertical brushing as provided by the maker.

4Runner · May 2015

I'm very pleased with my Ken Onion and the grinder accessory.

Egginspector · May 2015

The Work Sharp sharpener is the best i have ever used! The guides they provide will put the perfect edge on your knife, the knife will be razor sharp!

HeavyG · May 2015

AR_Pork_Producer said:

I believe that this sharpener has only two built in angles that you can use, but it will get a blade scary sharp.

The Ken Onion edition of the Work Sharp is quite different from the original Work Sharp.

The KO version allows setting angles between 15° - 30°.

4Runner · May 2015

HeavyG said:

AR_Pork_Producer said:

I believe that this sharpener has only two built in angles that you can use, but it will get a blade scary sharp.

The Ken Onion edition of the Work Sharp is quite different from the original Work Sharp.

The KO version allows setting angles between 15° - 30°.

True. Add the grinder and you even have a wider range. Also uses different belts and they have a leather option. Very versatile.

HeavyG · May 2015

wbradking said:

Thanks for the feedback everyone. I did a little research on Wusthof's web site and saw conflicting information where they recommend anywhere between a 20* and 14* angle. I'm going to set it for 20* and go with that and maybe adjust down the road if I'm feeling adventurous.

And as for some of the comments above, yes I'm pretty sure I can't keep a consistent angle between the blade and the stone when I try to sharpen. I guess I never developed a feel for it.

I was curious about your findings on Wusthof edge angles and I did some digging. What I found said their Classic line of knives comes with their so-called "PEtec Edge" with 14° angle per side.

My guess is that with the rising popularity of Japanese (or at least Japanese style) knives in the last decade or so .that some western manufacturers are now using lower angles than they used to.

I only have one Wusthof knife and it is a Wusthof Santoku (I was curious what a German take on a Japanese style knife was like) and according to the same site that told me about the "PETec Edge" it says that the factory angle on the Wusthof Santoku is 11° which is lower than I thought (and have been sharpening it at a higher angle).

Bottom line is they're steel - sharpen them to whatever angle you like

wbradking · May 2015

Thanks @HeavyG, I pretty much came away with the same information. My Classics are around 15 years old so I doubt they have the PEtec Edge, but I couldn't find any information on a timeframe when they changed the edge profile. I did find some info that suggests that before they made the change, the angle was around 19*.

Lit · May 2015

The hardness of your knives is what determines the angle they can handle. All the German knives are softer than Japanese style at least traditionally and they dull quickly when brought to a lower angle like 15 degrees or less. When I started sharpening knives I used to take my Japanese knives to 10 degrees or even less and they were super sharp but the blades then get tiny chips if you look at them through a lupe. I stay right around 15 degrees now for all my knives and it works good.

luckyboy · May 2015

Red neck method I use when in a rush.i'll roll down my trucks door window to about 4 ln from the bottom and use the top edge of the glass as a stone.I can't say what angle I hold the knife to but it works very well.

Chubbs · May 2015

luckyboy said:

Red neck method I use when in a rush.i'll roll down my trucks door window to about 4 ln from the bottom and use the top edge of the glass as a stone.I can't say what angle I hold the knife to but it works very well.

Legume · May 2015

Brown paper grocery bag works pretty well to put a fine edge on a knife.

AR_Pork_Producer · May 2015

HeavyG said:

AR_Pork_Producer said:

I believe that this sharpener has only two built in angles that you can use, but it will get a blade scary sharp.

The Ken Onion edition of the Work Sharp is quite different from the original Work Sharp.

The KO version allows setting angles between 15° - 30°.

Sorry, I didn't know that. I have the original version. my bad.

Eggcelsior · May 2015

luckyboy said:

Red neck method I use when in a rush.i'll roll down my trucks door window to about 4 ln from the bottom and use the top edge of the glass as a stone.I can't say what angle I hold the knife to but it works very well.

You can do something similar with the bottom of a ceramic mug.

wbradking · May 2015

OK...here's an update. I got the sharpener earlier this week and tested on a cheaper knife last night. Holy cow! That knife has never been sharper! Feeling a little more confident I did my good set earlier today and everything came out great. I put a 19* edge on them and I'll see how they stand up. What a joy it is to work with sharp knives.

I can wholeheartedly attest that the Work Sharp Ken Onion edition has made my knives sharper than they have ever been. Highly recommended.

--Brad

highball · May 2015

I use a Kalamazoo 1" x 42" belt sander to sharpen my pruning shears, scissors, axe, kitchen knives, etc. I use belts up to 1000 grit and a leather belt for stropping . I also have the Ken Onion that was given to me as a gift, it works great but the belts don't last long and are way over priced

4Runner · May 2015

I added the grinding attachment to the KOWS and it uses the wider belts. Also, added the leather belt and stropped (sp?) for the first time. Really ended up with a nice edge. Just did 2 of my most used knives and now they cut through paper like you wouldn't believe.

Cookinbob · May 2015

I have the original work sharp, wish I had gone for the Ken Onion model. Mt only choice is a 20° angle, and I need 15° for most of my good knives. As a result, I sharpen most of them on the stone.

Knife angle suggestions

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