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should burger be fully cooked?

Watching Anthony Bourdain on his Layover series, he says everyone should have the right to have their burger how they want it. What about liability? I was always told that bacteria lived on the oxygen on the surface of meat. So when a piece of meat is ground up, all that surface is ground up into the burger. Has something changed recently?
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Comments

  • jimithing
    jimithing Posts: 254
    I'm a lot more apt to cook it medium to medium rare at home when I've ground the meat myself.  I got pretty sick one time eating a medium rare burger from a pretty reputable restaurant.  I'm a lot more cautious now when eating out.
    XL BGE
    Plano, TX
  • cazzy
    cazzy Posts: 9,136
    It really just depends...if it's store bought ground beef, then I usually pull at 160 internal.  
    If I grind my own, I favor medium plus.  Through time, I have found that I personally like burgers with a higher internal temp.  I prefer some of the internal fat to render instead of the texture of a cool red center.  I feel that it also yields a juicier burger than a medium rare - medium burger.
    Just a hack that makes some $hitty BBQ....
  • McNuttly
    McNuttly Posts: 99
    Watching Anthony Bourdain on his Layover series, he says everyone should have the right to have their burger how they want it. What about liability?
    Liability is an issue if you're served any kind of tainted food (bacterial, viral, foreign objects...) that causes illness or injury as you have the right to expect not to visit the hospital after eating lunch.  As related to food borne illnesses caused by uncooked (typically sushi type things) and undercooked (as in this case), it can get more difficult to attach liability to the restaurant provided there are adequate warnings and the customer knowingly makes a choice that assumes the risk of consumption.  We've all seen the little * at the bottom of menus these days that warn of illness that can result from raw or undercooked food items... that's their attempt to sidestep liability.  It's a tough proposition for someone that orders a bleeding rare burger to later complain that he got sick & wants compensation as a result.
  • fishlessman
    fishlessman Posts: 32,674
    some of us here eat it raw, beef and lamb. raw kibee is served by a few restaurants around here, used to order it all the time. i prefer a burger cooked med/rare
    fukahwee maine

    you can lead a fish to water but you can not make him drink it
  • fence0407
    fence0407 Posts: 2,236
    I think ground meat should be cooked thoroughly - just to be safe. I'd rather not worry about possibly getting sick or not if I can avoid it by cooking it a little longer. 
    Large - Mini - Blackstone 17", 28", 36"
    Cumming, GA  

  • poster
    poster Posts: 1,167
    I dont know about BC, but in Ontario burgers at restaurants must be cooked through to a certain temp. Im kinda used to it and find pink in any kind of burger sort of gross, like biting into under cooked chicken. It does make it more challenging to pull them off at just the right time though, before they are dried out
  • tarheelmatt
    tarheelmatt Posts: 9,867
    I am with @cazzy .  I like my burgers about medium to medium well, if I grind my own.  Out in a restaurant, I'll order med-well.  
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  • Lit
    Lit Posts: 9,053
    As others have said store bought meat always to 160 for me. When I grind it myself usually 145 range so there is a little pink but mostly cooked. I think its alot about how the meat was treated before and after it was ground. My dad talks about eating what they called oyster crackers growing up which was a cracker, raw ground beef, onion and mustard and they ate them all the time but the meat was directly from a processing plant and then ground fresh and they never got sick.
  • fishlessman
    fishlessman Posts: 32,674
    eggs are supposed to be fully cooked too, but runny eggs on a med/rare burger is killer to me, i dont like restaurants telling me how my burger is going to be served.  seems the more the world gets sanitized the more the people get sick =) now if we are talking mcdonalds, kill the darn burger, cook it to 180 internal or even higher
    fukahwee maine

    you can lead a fish to water but you can not make him drink it
  • Legume
    Legume Posts: 14,602
    I agree with the juicy crowd.  I don't temp my burgers when I cook them, but I like a nice char on the outside and I like the middle to be juicy which is prob just on the far side of medium.  Too pink and it's not juicy and too well and it dries out.  I want a messy burger.
  • NervousDad
    NervousDad Posts: 307
    edited April 2015
    I screw up every burger I cook because I cook them to temp (unless I use a iron skillet) which I prefer. Ground beef is loaded with surface bacteria and I would not chance it with my family.  I'd assume it's a little bit safer since I thing most store bought it irradiated.
    Aurora,OH
  • Skiddymarker
    Skiddymarker Posts: 8,522
    I agree with being able to order what you are comfortable with, but then safe food handling laws might get in the way. 
    IMO, two things shape a burger, the temp and the fat content. An 80/20 burger cooked to 150-160ºF range will still be juicy and safe. An extra lean 95/5 burger is pretty much dried out and ruined if served much over 145º.  
    For those who grind their own, make sure you know the source. With needle or mechanical tenderizing the norm, even self-ground sirloin burgers might still contain bacteria. Best approach is to make sure your burger has the fat content to keep it juicy and cook it to a safe temp. 
    Delta B.C. - Whiskey and steak, because no good story ever started with someone having a salad!
  • fljoemon
    fljoemon Posts: 757
    @Skiddymarker .. I think your explanation makes perfect sense. Even grinding your own burger has its risks. My family will refuse to eat a burger if there is even a slight pink somewhere in th middle .. so I always cook well done to temp in the 160 to 165 range.
    LBGE & Mini
    Orlando, FL
  • Legume
    Legume Posts: 14,602
    agree - great point about the fat content.  I've also found that loosely formed burgers appeal to me much more than compressed burgers.  I never push down on them when cooking.
  • Skiddymarker
    Skiddymarker Posts: 8,522
    Legume said:
    agree - great point about the fat content.  I've also found that loosely formed burgers appeal to me much more than compressed burgers.  I never push down on them when cooking.
    Except with your thumb to indent the centre before they hit the grid - keeps them the same thickness. Good point on the don’t pack them to firm, loose pack is best. 
    Delta B.C. - Whiskey and steak, because no good story ever started with someone having a salad!
  • jtcBoynton
    jtcBoynton Posts: 2,814
    @VANcouverEGG   You asked "Has something changed recently?".  In terms of food safety, no. What has changed is some people are willing to take more risks from a food safety perspective in order to get a better culinary experience.  Some folks, like Bourdain, are willing to advocate this position. 
    Southeast Florida - LBGE
    In cooking, often we implement steps for which we have no explanations other than ‘that’s what everybody else does’ or ‘that’s what I have been told.’  Dare to think for yourself.
     
  • fishlessman
    fishlessman Posts: 32,674
    do you guys also fear lettuce, cantaloupe, strawberries, jalapenos, cucumbers bean sprouts, eggs....these are very dangerous as well =)

    fukahwee maine

    you can lead a fish to water but you can not make him drink it
  • nolaegghead
    nolaegghead Posts: 42,102
    I will not buy factory ground beef where you have hundreds or thousands of cows mixed into one lot.  I buy fresh stuff or grind it myself.  And I cook it rare to med rare (more for guests usually).  I've never gotten a bad case of food poisoning from red meat.  Maybe some mild regret where I got a bit of reading done on the throne....
    ______________________________________________
    I love lamp..
  • Grillmagic
    Grillmagic Posts: 1,600
    I am in the medium rare camp, give me a juicy burger every time. I thermo pen them to 135 to 145 and they come out Great.
    Charlotte, Michigan XL BGE
  • MrCookingNurse
    MrCookingNurse Posts: 4,665
    more about food handling then the meat, everyone has already said what i'd so but my vote goes into at home with my meat i start pulling around 140-5 ish, don't buy store ground or wally world such ground.  Got a lot of odd ends from our last cow i wanna ground soon....


    _______________________________________________

    XLBGE 
  • poster
    poster Posts: 1,167
    growing up my mom would cook burgers so much nothing could survive in it, or on it after the fact because there wasn't much left to consume. Same went for chicken and steaks.
  • Sardonicus
    Sardonicus Posts: 1,700
    edited April 2015
    . . . Ground beef is loaded with surface bacteria . . .

    You're only partly right, but you are on the right track.

    Actually, the reason ground beef can be dangerous is that what was once "surface bacteria" is no longer merely on the surface of the patty. 

    The grinding process effectively disperses the bacteria throughout the entire mass.  Each of the patty's little particles has its own surface within the patty, replete with its own "surface bacteria", and THAT is the reason it should be cooked thoroughly.

    "Too bad all the people who know how to run the country are busy driving cabs and barbecuing."      - George Burns

  • raydefan
    raydefan Posts: 8
    Since the bad stuff is on the outside of the meat, what I have read (and done) is to quickly boil a chunk of meat for about a 1 minute and then grind it up yourself. You are already greatly reducing the chance of having any bad stuff by grinding a single piece of meat. Boiling the outside will kill anything that may be on the surface. This way, to can make the burgers as pink as you like them. If you are going to take the time to grind the meat yourself, then boiling it first for a minute isn't really much more time.

    That being said, when I throw a party, I always cook them so no pink shows. I think some people really have issues with pink meat and those who like medium rare beef don't really care because they understand that it's just a party.
  • nolaegghead
    nolaegghead Posts: 42,102
    what the hell did we do before we invented fire?!
    ______________________________________________
    I love lamp..
  • pgprescott
    pgprescott Posts: 14,544
    I'm med rare. Most like med - med well. I have also never been sick from red meat. I guess I'm very lucky, cause I eat a lot of it. I have been sick twice from shellfish. Not pleasant at all. I buy store bought stuff.
  • Legume
    Legume Posts: 14,602
    edited April 2015
    what the hell did we do before we invented fire?!
    we spent lots of time sitting on the throne reading sports illustrated?
  • Skiddymarker
    Skiddymarker Posts: 8,522
    what the hell did we do before we invented fire?!
    Ate with the dogs - oh wait, I do that most nights anyway. 
    MCAH patty is sous vide cooked, SWMBO, who is in the well done camp, loves these and they are cooked to only about 130º for an hour or so. She does prefer the deep fryer for crust, but I have torched them. Not an egg cook, but still makes a great burger.  
    Delta B.C. - Whiskey and steak, because no good story ever started with someone having a salad!
  • nolaegghead
    nolaegghead Posts: 42,102
    SV burger meat at 131 for about 4 hours and you will have med rare, lay on a sear and if you end up reading Sports Illustrated on the loo, it's from the lettuce or tomato.
    ______________________________________________
    I love lamp..
  • Eggcelsior
    Eggcelsior Posts: 14,414
    what the hell did we do before we invented fire?!
    Well, we didn't grind meat except with our teeth.
  • st¡ke
    st¡ke Posts: 276
    As nola mentioned, the greatest risk is from the vegetable toppings

    Grinding at home is safest. No need to boil or even salt the exterior as long as the meat is kept cold before cooking and not allowed to sit out forever after cooking.