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Lump vs. charcoal, "clean" smoke vs. "unclean" smoke
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UXB
Posts: 21
I have two areas I could use help with from any Eggologists that have thoughts they will share.
First, the issue of "clean" smoke. I know the recommendation is to allow the lump to burn down to the "clean" smoke mode before putting your product on the grill. I'm good with that though never quite sure if I'm looking at clean or dirty smoke. In fact, given the theory of the long burns possible with lump in an Egg I'm wondering if this theory even holds water.
Here's my dilemma. In a long cook not all of the lump will be burning when you get things settled out at your desired temperature with clean smoke. The fire will gradually move through the lump as oxygen allows and light new lump as time passes. Thus, there's always fresh lump under ignition conditions at all times it would seem. So... how can you ever get to clean smoke if you're always igniting new lump in there?
Second question. I'm a long time BBQ enthusiast - 50 years or so I'd guess. I'm only about 1.5 years into Egg cooking. It lives up to its reputation. It does everything claimed and does a fine job of it once the cook masters the techniques. My concern is this. Neither my wife nor I likes smoke flavor in our cooked foods. I fear that lump introduces smoke flavor whether one wants it or not. This wasn't true in my BBQ days. If I wanted smoke flavor I would introduce the appropriate wood chips.
I suppose there are brands of lump that infuse less smoke flavor but lump seems to be sort of an early stage charcoal. In other words, the raw woods that form lump are processed less than the woods and other materials that form charcoal. So, you're probably going to be producing more "smoke" with lump, intentionally or otherwise, than you would with charcoal. If my reasoning is correct here, is there any way to lessen or do away with the smoke flavors that are created in an Egg cook? If not, i'm probably going to be looking to sell my fine Egg and return to the world of charcoal cooking.
Last question: What would happen to my Egg if I burned charcoal in there?
Many thanks,
HD
First, the issue of "clean" smoke. I know the recommendation is to allow the lump to burn down to the "clean" smoke mode before putting your product on the grill. I'm good with that though never quite sure if I'm looking at clean or dirty smoke. In fact, given the theory of the long burns possible with lump in an Egg I'm wondering if this theory even holds water.
Here's my dilemma. In a long cook not all of the lump will be burning when you get things settled out at your desired temperature with clean smoke. The fire will gradually move through the lump as oxygen allows and light new lump as time passes. Thus, there's always fresh lump under ignition conditions at all times it would seem. So... how can you ever get to clean smoke if you're always igniting new lump in there?
Second question. I'm a long time BBQ enthusiast - 50 years or so I'd guess. I'm only about 1.5 years into Egg cooking. It lives up to its reputation. It does everything claimed and does a fine job of it once the cook masters the techniques. My concern is this. Neither my wife nor I likes smoke flavor in our cooked foods. I fear that lump introduces smoke flavor whether one wants it or not. This wasn't true in my BBQ days. If I wanted smoke flavor I would introduce the appropriate wood chips.
I suppose there are brands of lump that infuse less smoke flavor but lump seems to be sort of an early stage charcoal. In other words, the raw woods that form lump are processed less than the woods and other materials that form charcoal. So, you're probably going to be producing more "smoke" with lump, intentionally or otherwise, than you would with charcoal. If my reasoning is correct here, is there any way to lessen or do away with the smoke flavors that are created in an Egg cook? If not, i'm probably going to be looking to sell my fine Egg and return to the world of charcoal cooking.
Last question: What would happen to my Egg if I burned charcoal in there?
Many thanks,
HD
Comments
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If you don't like smoke then why did you buy an egg? Just curious. ..wouldn't a weber better serve your needs?
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Lump is charcoal. You don't mean charcoal briquettes do you? Briquettes are only a little bit charcoal and a lot of fillers. Stick with lump charcoal.
Large BGE
Barry, Lancaster, PA -
Different brands of charcoal have different amounts of smokiness. From what I've read, Rockwood and Wicked Good seem to have the least amount of smoke
Large BGE
Barry, Lancaster, PA -
VOC's in the lump will burn off even before being lit from the other lump " vaporizing" it for a lack of better words-- I can light lump from a previous cook and the "burn off time " is literally zeroVisalia, Ca @lkapigian
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Keep your fire small and hot from the get-go, let the egg temp stabilize. Light from the top. Avoid choking down a big fire. You are always going to have some smokey flavor from charcoal. If briquettes were acceptable, then you can handle some smokey flavor. Alternative is gas. You can use briquettes in the egg, no problem. It's a different style of cooking - we are used to ashing over all the briquettes in a weber grill then dealing with the massive fire. Egg is like burning a candle.
______________________________________________I love lamp.. -
I know from my experience; and I am not going to piss on the lump vs lump fire, but I personally like Rockwood and Wicked Good for a more neutral, non-smokey burn. Both of those lumps have proven, to me, to make the egg more "oven-like" and capable of cooking everything from pies to breads, to cookies.
If I want smoke flavor, I'll add my pecan or hickory.
I go by smell. I'll light the lump and get it burning then let it run up to my goal temp for about 30 minutes. I place my hand over the daisy wheel top for a few seconds, then smell my hand. If it smells good, then time to get cooking. If it smells acrid, then it needs a few more minutes of burning off. That hasn't failed me yet!
Have you googled and read up on The Naked Whiz and the lump database that he has? Excellent info there!LBGE #19 from North GA Eggfest, 2014
Stockbridge, GA - just south of Atlanta where we are covered up in Zombies! #TheWalkingDead films practically next door!
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UXB i have some questions but i do t want to insult. I am asking because i experienced this same problem with my egg. When you are over 300 degrees are you using the daisy wheel? If so what you are getting is creosote. Try this. Fire up the egg to 350 no daisy wheel. Control temp with bottom door. let it get stable and no billowing white puffs of smoke, whispy thin smoke is just fine. Throw on some chicken. Cook as normal. Again no cover or daisy etc. Then taste. Ill buy your egg if I'm wrong but ill bet you are getting back pressure with the daisy. Trust me I made the same exact mistake. I felt green as heck and was mighty embarrassed.Columbus, Ohio--A Gasser filled with Matchlight and an Ugly Drum.
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First of all, you will know that you have 'clean' smoke when you can barely tell there is any smoke at all coming out. From what I've been able to understand about egging so far, is that on a low and slow cook, even though you have new lump being ignited throughout the cook, the smoke will be 'clean' because the temperature inside the egg is burning off the VOC's. Some brands of lump have less smoke than others too and although I haven't tried it myself yet it seems from reading other posts that the Rockwood brand is one of the lesser smoke producing brands available.
As to your question about using regular charcoal, it shouldn't hurt anything other than making more ashes for you to clean out.
Greenwood, IN | XL BGE | Weber Genesis | Blackstone 28 | bunch of accessories
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What do you mean by "regular charcoal". Do you mean briquettes? Am I wrong in assuming that lump and charcoal are the same thing? Briquettes are only part charcoal.Eggaroo said:
As to your question about using regular charcoal, it shouldn't hurt anything other than making more ashes for you to clean out.
Large BGE
Barry, Lancaster, PA -
I am relatively new to the egg about a month old and I have noticed a few things. Different lump does have a different flavor. Also letting the egg and lump stabilize to the fine smoke has a vast difference in smoke flavor.XLBGE, Egging in NH
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Yes. I mean briquettes such as the Kingsford brand that is so prevalent. I saw a YouTube video recently where BBQ guru Steve Lilly uses Kingsford briquettes in a BGE.Shiff said:
What do you mean by "regular charcoal". Do you mean briquettes? Am I wrong in assuming that lump and charcoal are the same thing? Briquettes are only part charcoal.Eggaroo said:
As to your question about using regular charcoal, it shouldn't hurt anything other than making more ashes for you to clean out.
Greenwood, IN | XL BGE | Weber Genesis | Blackstone 28 | bunch of accessories -
Lump charcoal is wood that has been converted into charcoal. Charcoal Briquettes is wood that has been converted into charcoal, then ground to dust and combined with various fillers, and then pressed into little bricks. Yes that is a gross simplification but I think captures the major differences.
Different lump charcoals do produce a different amount of smoke flavor. No lump manufacturer completely converts the wood to 100% charcoal - there is some wood fiber left. The amount of wood fiber left in the lump will influence the level of smoke flavor.Southeast Florida - LBGE
In cooking, often we implement steps for which we have no explanations other than ‘that’s what everybody else does’ or ‘that’s what I have been told.’ Dare to think for yourself. -
If u wanna try sum briquets try kingsford competition they say it's made for ceramic grills. I never tried it. I like lump and the flavor/smoke it imparts to my food.Ewa Beach, Hawaii
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I think I have seen the same video, looks like a paid kingsford add to me. Try a bag of Rockwood, I am sure you will like it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S4-78gzpW1U
LBGE Atlanta, GA
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^^^^^^ Yep! He seems to be a spokesman for Kingsford in his videos.
Greenwood, IN | XL BGE | Weber Genesis | Blackstone 28 | bunch of accessories -
When I first got my egg it was Christmas, I received a whole packer as a gift and had only Kingsford and Royal oak briquettes, and no stores open. So I did my first cooks on the egg using only briquettes. It works fine. But just as warned, there is more ash, and you have to clean it before every cook.
If you are not having good results with the lump, I would just try briquettes until you get comfortable with the temperature control, etc. you should consistently have less smoke flavor. Don't give up on the egg. You will cook the best tasting meals ever on it! -
The egg is a charcoal grill. It will burn briquettes or lump. Your choice. People like what they like. If you like briquettes go for it. If it were me I'd try several different types of charcoal (lump and briquette) until I found what I liked. Seems pretty simple.-------------------------------------------------------------------------------Strongsville, OhioYes. I own a blue egg! Call Atlanta if you don't believe me![I put this here so everyone knows when I put pictures up with a blue egg in it]
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Rockwood is made from Missouri hard woods and burns with a lot less smoke then say Royal Oak. I like it for this reason, so when I add other woods like cherry and apple it gives me the flavor in the meat I want. Like others have said, once you have the Egg stabilized say around 225 for a while it should clear up and when it gets over that even more. It is true if choke the temp down it will create a lot more smoke than what you may want, but it will stabilize eventually. Also if you are doing a low & slow and don't wrap the plate setter or use a drip pan, you are going to get a little smoke flavor from the fat dripping on to the plate setter. The same goes for when you are doing burgers, steak or chicken direct, you will get smoke from the fat dripping on to the coals, but you get this with a gas grill too when going direct. I have done pizza on the egg from 450 to 550 with no hint of smokey flavor. I have also done a pecan pie with no real smoke flavor either.
One of our friends wife doesn't like smoke flavor much either, but has not complained once of anything I have cooked on the egg as being too smokey. Now I have had some BBQ here near KC that had way to much oak flavor to it and We had to put a lot of sauce on it to eat it. They use an old stick burner and I don't think they know how to regulate the smoke right. I have heard it is hit or miss when you go there.
When there is not much or any smoke coming out you should be good to go to put the meat on. The hole idea behind L&S is to get a little smoke in it and to cook it slow to render the fat down from what you are cooking.
Are you not liking any of the food your cooking on the Egg?
XL, WSM, Coleman Road Trip Gas GrillKansas City, Mo. -
Understand what you are saying, but in a WSM the Minion method only has some of the briquettes actually ashed over at one time, the idea is much like using lump in a kamado, candle fire (well maybe a small candelabra) that burns for a long time. Today’s comp briquettes burn very clean, there is very little wood smoke, much unlike the crap briquettes of 20 years ago. They still have tons of ash when compared to lump. There is a lot more air flow in the briquette powered WSM, you need more smoke wood to get the desired effect as the smoked air passes by the food a little faster. Water trays are needed to add moisture, also not a kamado issue.nolaegghead said:Keep your fire small and hot from the get-go, let the egg temp stabilize. Light from the top. Avoid choking down a big fire. You are always going to have some smokey flavor from charcoal. If briquettes were acceptable, then you can handle some smokey flavor. Alternative is gas. You can use briquettes in the egg, no problem. It's a different style of cooking - we are used to ashing over all the briquettes in a weber grill then dealing with the massive fire. Egg is like burning a candle.
I think your advice to light a small spot, on the top is ideal (well it works for me so it must be ideal). This will work with briquettes, there will just be more ash.
I think much of the VOCs in lump are burned off when the temp inside the egg firebox (dome might be 100º less) approaches 300ºF, there are some left of course, but the majority of the acrid smoke is gone by the time the food hits the grid.
IMO, neutral lumps out performs briquettes in all cases, even in my kettle. Second burn lump is ready in minutes in the kettle - where I often use it for smaller cooks.
@UXB - make sure the smoke from the top vent smells sweet before you cook and the smoke effect on the food is minimized, assuming you are using a neutral lump as the really cheap stuff or most mesquite lumps have a flavour all their own.Delta B.C. - Whiskey and steak, because no good story ever started with someone having a salad! -
Anyone ever put a load of lump in something like the kick ash basket and take it to 250* on the grid for a while in preperation for another cook? Might this get rid of the VOCs of both the active lump and the next cook's lump? If this would work it would save time every second cook!LBGE/Weber Kettle/Blackstone 36" Griddle/Turkey Fryer/Induction Burner/Royal Gourmet 24" Griddle/Cuisinart Twin Oaks/Pit Boss Tabletop pellet smoker/Instant Pot
BBQ from the State of Connecticut!
Jim -
CtTOPGUN said:Anyone ever put a load of lump in something like the kick ash basket and take it to 250* on the grid for a while in preperation for another cook? Might this get rid of the VOCs of both the active lump and the next cook's lump? If this would work it would save time every second cook!
How are you going to put it out without killing the current fire? -
From what I understand, when one has established a "clean smoke" condition during long lo-n-slo cook, the carbon on the lump "grabs" all of the oxygen from the air flow, and bakes away the remaining wood fiber. This pyrolysis produces the desirable spice like flavors. Bitter "dirty smoke" comes from partial combustion that happens in part as water is driven out of the Egg chamber, the wood left in the lump, and any smoking wood.
I've read that most briquettes have some anthracite coal in them. The coal burns very hot, and within the briquette, the effect is similar to a higher temp cook w. lump in a ceramic cooker. The "bad smoke" is broken down by the high heat.
It is a good idea to do a cleaning burn in the Egg, particularly after many low temp cooks. The black gunk that forms on the inside of the Egg holds the smoke, greasy and creosote residue from all the previous cooks. Folks who use Eggs to cook breads sometimes have a separate Egg just for baking so that smell is never in the background.
I've used briquettes a number of times, both common ones and ones that are advertised as "natural," which means corn starch as a binder, and not clay. They are fine for short cooks, but the amount of ash is so great that an overnight cook will be smothered from the ash build up.
If you have a small fortune in your wallet, buy some Japanese binchotan charcoal. It burns so clean that it is smokeless. It is made from a particular kind of oak that is heated by high pressure steam which removes about 99% of everything but carbon. Alternatively, find some lump made in Namibia from, ?acacia?, It will be a major pain to light, but will cook very hot for a long time, because it is about 90%+ carbon.
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stlcharcoal said:CtTOPGUN said:Anyone ever put a load of lump in something like the kick ash basket and take it to 250* on the grid for a while in preperation for another cook? Might this get rid of the VOCs of both the active lump and the next cook's lump? If this would work it would save time every second cook!
How are you going to put it out without killing the current fire?
I would not expect a mass of lump to ignite if sitting on the grid at 250* or so for half an hour. Not sure if it is worth the efforts as the time to burn off VOCs can be used for food prep or the consumption of alcohol...LBGE/Weber Kettle/Blackstone 36" Griddle/Turkey Fryer/Induction Burner/Royal Gourmet 24" Griddle/Cuisinart Twin Oaks/Pit Boss Tabletop pellet smoker/Instant Pot
BBQ from the State of Connecticut!
Jim -
CtTOPGUN said:It will be a major pain to light, but will cook very hot for a long time, because it is about 90%+ carbon.
Last time ours was tested it was 78-87% carbon depending on the sample. When you get north of 90%+, it gets pretty fragile. Not doubting them, it's just an easy number to throw out......"yeah our charcoal is X% carbon" without any basis.
CtTOPGUN said:
I would not expect a mass of lump to ignite if sitting on the grid at 250* or so for half an hour. Not sure if it is worth the efforts as the time to burn off VOCs can be used for food prep or the consumption of alcohol...Sure it would. If you're burning off the VOC's, it's burning. You have fuel, o2, and a kindling temp......it's burning. It might be a very low burn, but if you pull it out, set it on your deck, (or worse) pour it back in the bag, you are setting yourself up to burn down the house. Maybe if it's cold, damp, or windy outside, the fire will extinguish; but if the conditions are right, that fire is going to continue to grow and that charcoal will get red hot. Charcoal is not like wood, it's engineered to burn on it's own--it's doesn't need a bunch of other stuff around it to be burning to keep the heat factor up. I would steer clear of this idea.
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Well you certainly must know a heck of a lot more than I do about charcoal. But the info I had from Engineering Toolbox lists autoignition temps of charcoal to be at 660*F. I would think gently raising temp(indirect)to 250* should drive off a lot of volotile, light organic substances without begining to actually consume the charcoal. Of course safe handling practices should be used. A sealed metal can on a non flamable surface would be prudent in any event.LBGE/Weber Kettle/Blackstone 36" Griddle/Turkey Fryer/Induction Burner/Royal Gourmet 24" Griddle/Cuisinart Twin Oaks/Pit Boss Tabletop pellet smoker/Instant Pot
BBQ from the State of Connecticut!
Jim -
That is interesting. He talks about how it has little ash production, but check out 2:44 when he dumps in the chimney.I think I have seen the same video, looks like a paid kingsford add to me. Try a bag of Rockwood, I am sure you will like it.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S4-78gzpW1UWhich came first the chicken or the egg? I egged the chicken and then I ate his leg. -
Just to clear something up here, you don't need fire or ignition temps to burn VOCs. They start to diffuse at much lower temps. Imagine painting your house and somehow getting the temperature up to 250*, smell would go away pretty quick right?
Steve
Caledon, ON
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Little Steven said:Just to clear something up here, you don't need fire or ignition temps to burn VOCs. They start to diffuse at much lower temps. Imagine painting your house and somehow getting the temperature up to 250*, smell would go away pretty quick right?
That is the thought process I was on. Like refining crude. Or smelting metals.LBGE/Weber Kettle/Blackstone 36" Griddle/Turkey Fryer/Induction Burner/Royal Gourmet 24" Griddle/Cuisinart Twin Oaks/Pit Boss Tabletop pellet smoker/Instant Pot
BBQ from the State of Connecticut!
Jim -
Yeah, sorry I didn't read the whole thread but you are right on. Guy just needs some better lump
Steve
Caledon, ON
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CtTOPGUN said:Well you certainly must know a heck of a lot more than I do about charcoal. But the info I had from Engineering Toolbox lists autoignition temps of charcoal to be at 660*F. I would think gently raising temp(indirect)to 250* should drive off a lot of volotile, light organic substances without begining to actually consume the charcoal. Of course safe handling practices should be used. A sealed metal can on a non flamable surface would be prudent in any event.
If you had the plate setter in, I suppose it would work, since it's out of direct heat. Seems like a big waste to me. As a consumer, you shouldn't have to burn charcoal to make charcoal. If you have a bunch of smoke, you don't have charcoal--you have wood, right before it becomes charcoal. Get a product that has been properly carbonized into CHARCOAL and forget about this thread altogether.
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