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Pizza... Burnt crust! Help!
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1move
Posts: 516
Alright gents,
Made my first pizza's today and it was good but you are your worst critic.
Got the egg up to 600-650 degrees and the plate setter was raised with the pizza stone on top.
I put some corn flour on and put the pizza on for roughly 3 minutes before rotating it and keeping a close eye on it.
I found the flour would start smoking up before I even put the pizza on as it was so hot, first pizzas bottom came out burnt.
Second pizza I added more flour on the stone it was a bit better but still crispy and dark. By the time the fifth pizza rolled around I put on a ton of corn flour and threw that on the bottom crust was almost perfect but the pizza wasn't cooked throughout and I left it on the longest!
I need some suggestions gentlemen!
XLBGE, MMBGE, CyberQ
Comments
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I think a lot of people get overly concerned with cooking their pizzas at High temps. Most of us will use a pizza that is cooked at between 400-500* for a typical amount of time. Unless you are making a margherita pizza that is only cooking for 2-4 minutes at extremely high temps, just do a pizza that you like.I raise my kids, cook and golf. When work gets in the way I'm pissed, I'm pissed off 48 weeks a year.Inbetween Iowa and Colorado, not close to anything remotely entertaining outside of football season.
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Was there a space between the Platesetter and pizza stone. I do Platesetter legs up, grid on top of the legs, and pizza stone on the grid. Have never burned a crust this way.__________________________________________It's not a science, it's an art. And it's flawed.- Camp Hill, PA
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Agree with Scott above, but I've had great success a little hotter. The best wood-fired pizzas I'm trying to emulate are done at around 700-750. But those bigger ovens with the open front leave more room to move the pies around a bit control the cook.As for "corn flour", do you mean corn meal? The crunchy stuff? I prefer semolina flour, because it's not corn, and it doesn't try to break your teeth, but it still gives a little lift/protection from the stone and works great for sliding off/on the peel.My biggest **** about pizza on the egg is that my egg destroyed my favorite, trusty 10yo pizza stone (brazilian soapstone). It had survived oven temps of 500+ for so long. Then a few nights on the egg and she cracked all the way through.
How does the BGE pizza stone fare? -
I had a similar experience but the pizza crust didn't burn, just the cornmeal on the stone. This is when I was cooking straight on the plate setter with no stone. Have you tried using parchment paper? No cornmeal needed when you use parchment paper and it's much easier to transfer the pie onto the stone. Also, you might need to switch to another dough or put lighter toppings on if your going to cook at 650°. I'm sure more will chime in to help you out. @Mikee, @Carolina Q, @RRP any tipsSteven
Mini Max with Woo stone combo, LBGE, iGrill 2, Plate Setter,
two cotton pot holders to handle PS
Banner, Wyoming -
I used semolina flour and it worked well as a medium burn rather quick. I will try to lower the temp on my next attempt.
Just to test out the stone I got it up to different temperatures and then threw it in the snow because I was curious how well it would work and all of the BGE ceramic claims, and so on.
I did it at 300, 400, 500, 600 and 700 degrees I figured it would crack but just ended up melting a lot of snow.
During the cook had no issues cooked even and really well and it still does not have a scratch on it.
XLBGE, MMBGE, CyberQ -
I second parchment paper. I got tired of the burnt cornmeal flavor.
I also did lower heat with the parchment paper 450 or so.
I'm going to try a higher heat with it. -
My Platesetter and AR Pizza Stone were in the Egg tonight when I inadvertently wrapped the thermo around back to 200 (greater than 1000 degrees). They are fine, and this was in 20 degree F outside temps.__________________________________________It's not a science, it's an art. And it's flawed.- Camp Hill, PA
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Damn!Tjcoley said:My Platesetter and AR Pizza Stone were in the Egg tonight when I inadvertently wrapped the thermo around back to 200 (greater than 1000 degrees).
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@rtbarry Here is my original post from tonight's pizza. http://eggheadforum.com/discussion/1176058/rookie-mistake#latest__________________________________________It's not a science, it's an art. And it's flawed.- Camp Hill, PA
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I've tried the parchment and it works well. My concern is that most parchments state oven safe up to 450. With pizza cooks being hotter that that, I'm concerned about the stability of the silicone treatment on the parchment. I don't mean actually melting, but rather imparting some chemicals into the pie. Am I crazy?stemc33 said:I had a similar experience but the pizza crust didn't burn, just the cornmeal on the stone. This is when I was cooking straight on the plate setter with no stone. Have you tried using parchment paper? No cornmeal needed when you use parchment paper and it's much easier to transfer the pie onto the stone. Also, you might need to switch to another dough or put lighter toppings on if your going to cook at 650°. I'm sure more will chime in to help you out. @Mikee, @Carolina Q, @RRP any tipsPhoenix -
That takes real intestinal fortitude @1move to toss hot ceramic into the snow. That would've been a cool YouTube clip.Steven
Mini Max with Woo stone combo, LBGE, iGrill 2, Plate Setter,
two cotton pot holders to handle PS
Banner, Wyoming -
blasting said:
I've tried the parchment and it works well. My concern is that most parchments state oven safe up to 450. With pizza cooks being hotter that that, I'm concerned about the stability of the silicone treatment on the parchment. I don't mean actually melting, but rather imparting some chemicals into the pie. Am I crazy?stemc33 said:I had a similar experience but the pizza crust didn't burn, just the cornmeal on the stone. This is when I was cooking straight on the plate setter with no stone. Have you tried using parchment paper? No cornmeal needed when you use parchment paper and it's much easier to transfer the pie onto the stone. Also, you might need to switch to another dough or put lighter toppings on if your going to cook at 650°. I'm sure more will chime in to help you out. @Mikee, @Carolina Q, @RRP any tips
It's all good, a guy has to die from something. To die with great memories of eating good pizza is worth it in the end... I thinkSteven
Mini Max with Woo stone combo, LBGE, iGrill 2, Plate Setter,
two cotton pot holders to handle PS
Banner, Wyoming -
History supports your theory, but I plan on being the first to live forever; all while eating, drinking, and lovin like I'm trying to kill myself...The last few pies I made, I made right on the peel. They slid off perfectly, but I did use cornmeal. I like the blue cornmeal from whole foods - not as gritty as the genaric stuff.Phoenix
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I'm a noob,but I was burning the crust too at 600-650. I dropped down to 450-500, and it is much better. I also stopped using corn meal, and went to parchment paper.
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Consider getting an infrared laser temp gun. They are only about $40. You can see how hot the surface is. I put 3/4 " copper plumbing tees between the plate setter and pizza stone and also use parchment for the first 3-4 minutes. Also chech the flour you are using. I use King Arthur bread flour instead of all purpose. Good luck.XL BGE; Medium BGE; L BGE
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I would recommend rice flour. Rice flour is like little ball bearings. I dust the bottom of my wood pizza peel put my spread out dough on it put my ingredients on and every so often I give the peel a shake to keep the pizza from sticking. I never put anything on the stone itself not necessary.
I googled alot when I got my wood fired pizza oven and thats where I found out about rice flour. It is expenses here in Toronto but worth it in pizza quality. -
A big factor is the dough recipe. Any sugar in your dough? I cook on parchment at those temps and pull the paper after 2 mins. One time I screwed up and used a recipe with sugar and had a similar experience. When the first pie went on, black bottom second pie right behind it, cooler egg and stone, less black...
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Corn meal, semolina or flour DOES NOT GO ON THE PIZZA STONE. It goes on the peel. It allows the pie to slide easily from the peel to the stone. I like semolina best. It is not used to prevent burning. It is used to prevent sticking... TO THE PEEL!
For the typical pizza joint pizza, 500* is a good temp. If you make your own dough and use a high hydration dough (65% water or more), higher temps like 650-750* are fine.
Here is my peel with a typical application of semolina. You can barely see the stuff. That's all I ever use and the only place I ever use it. The pies slide off easily and NEVER stick. And the semolina doesn't burn.
I hate it when I go to the kitchen for food and all I find are ingredients!
MichaelCentral Connecticut -
blasting said:
I've tried the parchment and it works well. My concern is that most parchments state oven safe up to 450. With pizza cooks being hotter that that, I'm concerned about the stability of the silicone treatment on the parchment. I don't mean actually melting, but rather imparting some chemicals into the pie. Am I crazy?stemc33 said:I had a similar experience but the pizza crust didn't burn, just the cornmeal on the stone. This is when I was cooking straight on the plate setter with no stone. Have you tried using parchment paper? No cornmeal needed when you use parchment paper and it's much easier to transfer the pie onto the stone. Also, you might need to switch to another dough or put lighter toppings on if your going to cook at 650°. I'm sure more will chime in to help you out. @Mikee, @Carolina Q, @RRP any tips
The parchment between the stone and the dough will never get above 450°. Any parchment sticking out may get above that if it is left in for the entire cook. If so, the exposed parchment will burn. Most people who use parchment will pull it out after the dough sets, but before it starts to burn.Southeast Florida - LBGE
In cooking, often we implement steps for which we have no explanations other than ‘that’s what everybody else does’ or ‘that’s what I have been told.’ Dare to think for yourself. -
You could put a 2" thick piece of titanium between the stone and the platesetter and you would still get burned crust. You need a small "air barrier" between the two solid bits to prevent thermal transfer.
Steve
Caledon, ON
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Carolina Q said:Corn meal, semolina or flour DOES NOT GO ON THE PIZZA STONE. It goes on the peel. It allows the pie to slide easily from the peel to the stone. I like semolina best. It is not used to prevent burning. It is used to prevent sticking... TO THE PEEL!This This This!Pizzas are just like a hunk of meat, the thinner the pie, the hotter the Egg should be, for both the crust and the toppings to finish together. A Papa Murphy's "Cowboy" pizza works best like the instructions say, 425. Their thinner, $5 "Fave" pies work better at 600, and go for the 800-900 temps for a Margherita, as someone above mentioned._____________
Remember when teachers used to say 'You won't have a calculator everywhere you go'? Well, we showed them.
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I agree with some others that have mentioned to cook closer to 450-500. Set up I have found works great is plate setter legs up, grid, place 4 rolled up balls of tin foil on grid (a Dutchman's way to act as feet for the stone to sit on), and the stone on the foil feet. Also agree with using parchment paper. Usually cooks just right in about 10 min or so.
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You need air space between the pizza stone and the plate setter. Your crust will burn every time with no air gap between the two."The pig is an amazing animal. You feed a pig an apple and it makes bacon. Let's see Michael Phelps do that" - Jim Gaffigan
Minnesota -
If you do platesetter legs up, grid, then stone on the grid, your stone will still get too hot, especially if you allow it to preheat for close to an hour or more. This is because the edge of the stone usually sticks out beyond the edge of a platesetter, and is exposed to direct radiant heat from the coals. You need a second heat barrier right below the stone, about the same size as your stone, with a 1/2" to 3/4" air gap in between. You can do this with second stone, or maybe a foil pan(might be worried about it melting though at high temps). If I cook a pizza on the egg, I do platesetter legs up, grid, 14" ceramic pizza stone, 3 3/4" copper elbows on their side, then my 14" lodge cast iron pizza stone on top of that. Once I did that, I was able to let the top cook long enough to get the toppings done, without burning the bottom, at 600 degrees for about 10 to 12 minutes.After you start your fire, put everything(platesetter, stones, grids) in together and let them warm up as the fire gets hot. Once I hit my cooking temp, say 600, I like to hold the egg there half an hour before I put the first pizza on. This gets the dome nice and hot, which helps cook the top of the pie. I leave the daisy wheel off, and look down thru the top to check for doneness instead of opening the dome. When done cooking, close all the vents and leave everything in there to cool down slowly overnight. You are less likely to burn yourself and crack your stones that way.
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I agree with @theyolksonyou . It all has to do with your dough recipe. The type of flour (bread/all purpose VS 00), sugar content, oil content will have an impact on the max bake temperature. At the end of the day, you should follow the dough recipe recommended bake temperature. For regular dough, that's usually under 500F. For a 65% hydration dough made with just flour, water, salt and yeast, 600-700F is better.theyolksonyou said:A big factor is the dough recipe. Any sugar in your dough? I cook on parchment at those temps and pull the paper after 2 mins. One time I screwed up and used a recipe with sugar and had a similar experience. When the first pie went on, black bottom second pie right behind it, cooler egg and stone, less black...
____________________Entrepreneurs are simply those who understand that there is little difference between obstacle and opportunity and are able to turn both to their advantage. •Niccolo Machiavelli -
This is what I do for air gap and even at 750℉ it's enough gap. I think these are 7/8" refrigeration 90° (large would be fine or copper T's). It gives a nice thermal air gap and gets the stone above the felt line. I like to slide the pizza in on parchment and then remove it after a minute or so. That's just what I do. Obviously there are lots of ways and so long as it works for you that's what's most important.
LBGE 2013 & MM 2014Die Hard HUSKER & BRONCO FANFlying Low & Slow in "Da Burg" FL -
i use the adjustable rig on the XL and put the XL stone atop that- and all of this is on top of the spider with the stone underneath. On the Large, I use the spider in the basement with the stone for deflection, the adjustable rig, rig extender and the BGE LG pizza stone up top. The stone gets good and hot and the top of each pie cooks really well due to the radiant heat coming off the lid
On the MiniMax, i use the platesetter (conveggtor) inside the SPIDER from CGS with the smaller diameter ring facing down, the standard metal grid atop the larger diameter ring and then the small-sized pizza stone on top of that. see picts. never any problems with burning and typical cooking temp is between 650F and 700F. It is crucial that you have a space between the pizza stone and the platesetter and it's a good idea to get that pizza stone as high up in the dome as you can. this is what i have had the best results with anyway.
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I do Pizza with the platesetter in legs up, the grate, and then I raise the stone another 4" or so into the dome - it is a little hotter, and radiant heat helps cook the top (I believe). Dough made with AP Flour, I do pizzas at 500 deg. Always use parchment paper, it burns around the edges, but that is not a problem. My pizzas always come out great.
XLBGE, Small BGE, Homebrew and GuitarsRochester, NY -
I do not own a BGE, however, have a ton of experience with pizza on a kamado. With that said I do not own a plate setter so not sure if this all applies. Does BGE suggest not doing high heat cooks with the plate setter in the lower position? I know that a high heat burn builds up a lot of pressure and cracking the firebox is a real concern.On my kamado Joe, I cook pizza between 700 and 800 degrees without issue with the following configuration. I put the grills on, then the deflector stone, I add 4 copper T plumbing fittings for air flow and the pizza stone on top. Doing it this way allow for the heat to not build up in the bottom. The deflectors take the direct heat source, followed by air flow gap between the pizza stone. I have tried several configurations and this method really works well for high heat pizza cooks. This prevents the pizza stone from getting too hot.For a BGE I wonder if you would have similar results with the plate setter on top of the grill, etc etc??Another method would be to put you deflector stone in, and add an expander rack with the pizza stone on top, this sits the pizza stone and pie higher in the dome to prevent direct heat and burning.Anyways, not sure if it will work for you or not. My method could work with the use of 2 pizza stones and no plate setter added to your BGE.
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Thanks for all your comments I will have to try the gap and the parchment paper. Any suggestions on where I can get parchemnt paper?XLBGE, MMBGE, CyberQ
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