STUPID GFCI!

Gogogordy · January 2015

Much ado about nothing since most homeowners policies cover frozen food losses, (and the value of whatever is that freezer is certainly nothing compared to someones safety). Put in a new GFCI and move on.

tarheelmatt · January 2015

You indicated this was an old freezer and your have GF issues. This should be an alarm.

Replace your receptacle first with a GFCI and see if it still trips. The GF is tripping for a reason.

ummgood · January 2015

Gogogordy said:

Much ado about nothing since most homeowners policies cover frozen food losses, (and the value of whatever is that freezer is certainly nothing compared to someones safety). Put in a new GFCI and move on.

Except if you make a claim for even something small there is a high probability they'll cancel you at your renewal time. It happened to my parents over a $1000 claim. Even 5 years later when they sold their home of 15 years and moved into another house 1/3 of the companies they called wouldn't sell them insurance. It was INSANE. I really think twice before I file any home insurance claims.

Photo Egg · January 2015

ummgood said:

Gogogordy said:

Much ado about nothing since most homeowners policies cover frozen food losses, (and the value of whatever is that freezer is certainly nothing compared to someones safety). Put in a new GFCI and move on.

Except if you make a claim for even something small there is a high probability they'll cancel you at your renewal time. It happened to my parents over a $1000 claim. Even 5 years later when they sold their home of 15 years and moved into another house 1/3 of the companies they called wouldn't sell them insurance. It was INSANE. I really think twice before I file any home insurance claims.

and deductible to pay.

Gman2 · January 2015

If it is a dedicated circuit, Replace the gfci, if you still have tripping issues replace the duplex with a single outlet, the code allows this for single appliances, this way nothing else can be plugged in.

onedbguru · January 2015

RRP said:

bettysnephew said:

If a GFCI remains in the circuit you will more than likely eventually thaw everything in the freezer when it trips and you don't notice it.

Here's another trick that I believe we learned from Mickey. Called the old frozen coin trick.
Fill a small container with water almost to the top and freeze it. Then place a penny or two on top of the ice and add more water and freeze again. Place that container in a very conspicuous spot in your freezer. Then if it goes out and things thaw but refreeze meaning you might not even know the difference, but if your coins sunk you'll know!

BTW if you are a big spender use a quarter or even two LOL!

While that sounds like a good idea, most modern "frost free" freezers go through a mini-thaw/refreeze cycle daily. So, this may or may not be the real answer. One way you can know if it trips is to have your alarm system plugged into the same outlet and when your GFCI fails your security system (generally with battery backup), your alarm system will beep. (at least mine does.).

Gogogordy · January 2015

ummgood said:

Gogogordy said:

Much ado about nothing since most homeowners policies cover frozen food losses, (and the value of whatever is that freezer is certainly nothing compared to someones safety). Put in a new GFCI and move on.

Except if you make a claim for even something small there is a high probability they'll cancel you at your renewal time. It happened to my parents over a $1000 claim. Even 5 years later when they sold their home of 15 years and moved into another house 1/3 of the companies they called wouldn't sell them insurance. It was INSANE. I really think twice before I file any home insurance claims.

That has'nt been my experience...Ive had some claims. There's probably something else in play besides that claim. And certain homeowners claim types (in California anyway) have no deductible by law. In my policy food spoilage due to electrical outage or mechanical failure have a $100 deductible. California is a consumer-friendly state....among other things.

yzzi · January 2015

I bought one of these for the meat locker to sound an alarm if the breaker trips.

Powerout Power Failure Alarm And Safety Light Led https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00IA9BF70/ref=cm_sw_r_awd_MshTub03860MQ

Durangler · January 2015

Collect the premium, deny the claim.

Cancel policy. Sue to recoop any paid claim.

Skyscrapers aren't built paying claims, just like casinos aren't built paying jackpots.

yzzi · January 2015

My wife just called me and asked how to turn off the alarm that's going off in the garage (Link two posts above). Just saved a meat locker full of meat from two deer from spoiling as well as a chest freezer from warming up.

1move · January 2015

Hey Guys,

I work in the electrical engineering world and some of the suggestions had me shaking my head.

Do not remove the GFCI as it probably is the first GFCI in the circuit and serves as a protection device for the rest.

If you do remove it and decide to go with a regular outlet go buy a GFCI breaker and replace the regualar circut breaker. (New GFCI plug $20, new GFCI breaker $60)

What I would do is get a multi-meter and measure the chasis of the freezer motor and the chasis of the freezer then referance it back to the ground in your outlet. If there is a potentail difference I would ground the motor to the chasis and check the ground connection of the cable.

Many of you have never been shocked by the freezer, but the many that have been probably no longer own a freezer or are alive to tell the story.

NPHuskerFL · January 2015

@apinion‌ I didn't notice this thread. The unit would be ideal on a dedicated circuit. However, to determine why it's tripping would require checking a couple of things. My gut tells me the compressor is pulling LRA (lock rotor amps) on start-up at times which in turn overloads the circuit per what it is engineered to handle for a total load. First check the units start and running amps. Then again the same test on the whole circuit.

1move · January 2015

NPHuskerFL said:

@apinion‌ I didn't notice this thread. The unit would be ideal on a dedicated circuit. However, to determine why it's tripping would require checking a couple of things. My gut tells me the compressor is pulling LRA (lock rotor amps) on start-up at times which in turn overloads the circuit per what it is engineered to handle for a total load. First check the units start and running amps. Then again the same test on the whole circuit.

Usually these units are rated to be able to run on a 15A circuit unless he has a commercial freezer.

NPHuskerFL · January 2015

Usually these units are rated to be able to run on a 15A circuit unless he has a commercial freezer.

Agreed. Then you add in all the other load on this circuit and take into account amperage in rush on the compressor...click goes the GFCI. The only way to prove this is to check with a meter. Speculation and guessing is fine in horseshoes. A freezer full of meat spoiling :-q
Moving to a new circuit is not a solution. If the compressor is in fact pulling LRA the potential relay/overload could be failing which is a simple repair. Or you could always wait till the compressor s h i t s completely. But, what do I know. (:|

Little Steven · January 2015

If it is in fact defective windings, try identifying the circuit at the main paanel and putting a GFI breaker in.

NPHuskerFL said:

@apinion‌ I didn't notice this thread. The unit would be ideal on a dedicated circuit. However, to determine why it's tripping would require checking a couple of things. My gut tells me the compressor is pulling LRA (lock rotor amps) on start-up at times which in turn overloads the circuit per what it is engineered to handle for a total load. First check the units start and running amps. Then again the same test on the whole circuit.

He is running fine on an unprotected circuit. It's the GFI that's tripping.

1move · January 2015

NPHuskerFL said:

Usually these units are rated to be able to run on a 15A circuit unless he has a commercial freezer.
Agreed. Then you add in all the other load on this circuit and take into account amperage in rush on the compressor...click goes the GFCI. The only way to prove this is to check with a meter. Speculation and guessing is fine in horseshoes. A freezer full of meat spoiling :-q Moving to a new circuit is not a solution. If the compressor is in fact pulling LRA the potential relay/overload could be failing which is a simple repair. Or you could always wait till the compressor s h i t s completely. But, what do I know. (:|

Agreed, however the GFCI wouldnt trip but the breaker would. GFCI= Ground Fault Circuit Interrupter, these things arent designed to protect from an overload or short circuit, this is why the FLA/ LRA is not a problem.

NPHuskerFL · January 2015

@1move‌ had identical issue on a GFCI at a Buffalo Wild Wings. They had an electrician replace the GFCI not once but, 3 times. Found two separate problems the in rush or LRA exceeded circuit capacity and tripped GFCI not the breaker. Breakers will handle miniscule load spike and GFCIs sometimes do not. Potential relay was going bad and had a loose connection on the line voltage terminal block. Tightened connections and replaced start components with an approved 3 in 1 for 1/4-1/3 HP. Haven't had a problem since. My point was good luck guessing about it. Use a freaking multimeter and isolate the actual malfunction. That's what I'm trying to say.

NPHuskerFL · January 2015

@1move‌ The amperage spike does cause enough imbalance that the GFCI senses and faults then? The LRA will cause close to a 4%-7% imbalance from what I saw on my readings. So, yes LRA alone doesn't trip it's the imbalance it causes that causes the fault. Agreed?

clifkincaid · January 2015

Prior to the new code. All garage outlets including the Garage door opener be GFCI protected. Electricians will usuall hit the required front and rear outside plugs off that circuit"not always though" depending on how easy it is to wire. 2008-2013. 2008 prior the garage door opener did not have to be gfci protected. What year was your house built? Swapping a gfci should be first choice. Pay attention to line and load wires.

blind99 · January 2015

Unbelievable. My garage refrigerator was off... GFCI was tripped.... After reading all this I don't even want to imagine what could be wrong!!!

apinion · January 2015

House was built in 2008. Can I just replace the 15A GFCI with a 20A?

DMW · January 2015

apinion said:
House was built in 2008. Can I just replace the 15A GFCI with a 20A?

No, unless you upgrade the wiring and breaker.

Jeepster47 · January 2015

apinion said:

House was built in 2008. Can I just replace the 15A GFCI with a 20A?

NO!

Check to see what size wire the circuit contains. 14 gauge needs a 15 amp breaker per code and 12 gauge is good for 20 amps.

1move · January 2015

NPHuskerFL said:

@1move‌ The amperage spike does cause enough imbalance that the GFCI senses and faults then? The LRA will cause close to a 4%-7% imbalance from what I saw on my readings. So, yes LRA alone doesn't trip it's the imbalance it causes that causes the fault. Agreed?

@NPHuskerFL I agree on the imbalance portion, its the difference between the two, all circuits have three wires, a line voltage, a neutral and a ground. If everything is perfect the path goes through the device and current flows between the neutral and hot. If for any reason something goes wrong the device will trigger to ground and provide a path for the current to flow. If there is an imbalance between the two a.k.a current leakage then the circuit trips.

What you are describing initially is an inrush current spike which is protected by the breaker and if that inrush is higher than the breaker can take within a certain timeframe then the breaker trips and not the GFCI.

I don’t mean to step on anyone’s toes just want people to understand the difference as there is a lot of misleading information out there. I have worked in the electrical engineering industry for over 10 years and have done a lot of breaker coordination studies and so forth and there are big differences between breakers.

To the OP, if none of the advice works go to the store and either purchase a new freezer or a breaker that is rated for a higher ground fault current.

Mattman3969 · January 2015

Not to be a smarta$$ but how about calling an electrician and just get the problem diagnosed and fixed. I'm sure some of the advice above is very solid advice but I wouldn't trust myself with the safety of my family trying to figure an electrical issue that is outside of my skill set. Just my thoughts and not slamming any who has offered advice.

apinion · January 2015

Mattman3969 said:

Not to be a smarta$$ but how about calling an electrician and just get the problem diagnosed and fixed. I'm sure some of the advice above is very solid advice but I wouldn't trust myself with the safety of my family trying to figure an electrical issue that is outside of my skill set. Just my thoughts and not slamming any who has offered advice.

Ya, that thought it there.....I'm just a DIYer who loves learning and fixing, but the pro vs con on this one is getting to be a bit much.

bettysnephew · January 2015

So basically just replace the GFCI for about $20. If it still trips you have an issue with your freezer and must decide on your own how to deal with that. Replace, repair or move the freezer to an outlet without GFCI.

blind99 · January 2015

Id replace the GFCI. If it continued to trip, I'd have to assume there could be a ground fault and id call an electrician. My non contact voltage tester is very reassuring for these projects.

apinion · June 2015

Just wanted to close the loop and state that I finally, so it seems for now, got this issue with the GFCI tripping in the garage resolved.

I noticed the wire ran was already good to go for a 20amp GFCI, so I changed the 15amp GFCI to a 20amp and it hasn't tripped yet. Its been over a month.

nolaegghead · June 2015

yay!

STUPID GFCI!

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