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  • rtt121
    rtt121 Posts: 653
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    Mikee said:
    The Cen-Tex Smoker said:

    Do you mind sharing where you got this information? I understand it differently but I'm always open to new information.

    I think we both agree that there are VOC's in lump. Once the lump charcoal is heated up it burns off. The best way is it to get all the lump hot to the point it burning; the more the better. Get rid of the VOC's before backing down the temps. For me this is just common sense 101. Burn off only 50% of the VOC's on the initial heatup still leaves 50% to be emitted later. Burn50% in 15 minutes and it's visible and smellable. The other  50% burnt over 10 hours is not as noticeable over 600 minutes.

    Bottom line is to get all the lump to burn most the VOC's before cooking. 








    Not meaning to stir the pot. But I would love to know more as this a subject I am always pondering. 

    Is your response to Cen Tex your logic? or is that tested experimented knowledge of how VOC's burn off?
    Medium, and XL eggs in Galloway NJ.  Just outside of Atlantic City.  
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  • theyolksonyou
    theyolksonyou Posts: 18,458
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    UncleFred said:

    I'm finding this back and forth interesting and informative...
    image
    It's always interesting to hear how and why people do things differently. 
    I remember when I wore a  younger man's clothes, I was set in my ways. I figured that the way I learned to do something had to be the best way. ...then one of her friends gave my wife a copy of the Kama Sutra.

    Lucky man

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  • dldawes1
    dldawes1 Posts: 2,208
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    I just light on top at 11 and 1 o'clock and everything works just fine.

    As a firefighter for 17 years,  fire burns toward the fuel. If you light it on bottom, it burns up, if you light it on top, it burns downward.

    Heat, fire, fuel, oxygen, are all separate but necessary components for a fire to exist and continue.

    Donnie Dawes - RNNL8 BBQ - Carrollton, KY  

    TWIN XLBGEs, 1-Beautiful wife, 1 XS Yorkie

    I'm keeping serious from now on...no more joking around from me...Meatheads !! 


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  • DMW
    DMW Posts: 13,832
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    @rtt121 @Mikee

    This comes up every so often.
    This is the best explanation I have seen on here:

    See the comment from @stike

    I think this is what CT was referring to.
    They/Them
    Morgantown, PA

    XL BGE - S BGE - KJ Jr - HB Legacy - BS Pizza Oven - 30" Firepit - King Kooker Fryer -  PR72T - WSJ - BS 17" Griddle - XXL BGE  - BS SS36" Griddle - 2 Burner Gasser - Pellet Smoker
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  • Jeremiah
    Jeremiah Posts: 6,412
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    @Mikee‌ you said in another thread that royal oak was your choice lump and you couldn't see spending more for quality lump. But now your saying that you take your low and slows to 500 before backing them back down to burn off the bad smoke. Man that's a lot of wasted lump!!
    Slumming it in Aiken, SC. 
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  • theyolksonyou
    theyolksonyou Posts: 18,458
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    Mikee said:

     

    Even on a low and slow I bring my egg up to 500* until the smoke is clear and the lump, top to bottom is red.


    just my opinion as I haven't had a bad smoke problem, but you are wasting a lot of lump and time going to 500 and waiting to come back down. In fact, choking it down may be causing some of your smoke.
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  • Mikee
    Mikee Posts: 892
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    I have no tests to back up my opinion. Whether the lump is on the bottom and never ignited or poured on the top, its the same thing. Did you ever add new lump on top of an existing burn? Did it give off the white nasty smoke?

    My opinion is to get most of the lump in the fire box hot enough to burn off the nasties before cooking. Seems others are satisfied with only getting a portion of the lump to burn of VOC's.

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  • rtt121
    rtt121 Posts: 653
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    @Mikee

    you answered my question.  It's your own logic.
    Medium, and XL eggs in Galloway NJ.  Just outside of Atlantic City.  
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  • UncleFred
    UncleFred Posts: 458
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    dldawes1 said:
    As a firefighter for 17 years,  fire burns toward the fuel. If you light it on bottom, it burns up, if you light it on top, it burns downward.
    Heat, fire, fuel, oxygen, are all separate but necessary components for a fire to exist and continue.
    A Pyro expert!  Now we're getting somewhere!  So, in your experience (to bring it full circle to my original picture) will a house burn up/down any faster if the fire is started in the basement or the attic or no difference at all?
    San Diego, CA - Where I've mastered Curmudgeon..working on Recluse.
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  • rtt121
    rtt121 Posts: 653
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    The horizon is flat.  The earth must be flat.
    Medium, and XL eggs in Galloway NJ.  Just outside of Atlantic City.  
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  • Mikee
    Mikee Posts: 892
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    rtt121 said:
    @Mikee

    you answered my question.  It's your own logic.
    Is that all you have! I applied logic and you come back with a wimpy reply.
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  • rtt121
    rtt121 Posts: 653
    edited December 2014
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    Mikee said:
    rtt121 said:
    @Mikee

    you answered my question.  It's your own logic.
    Is that all you have! I applied logic and you come back with a wimpy reply.
    The internet is a place I use to learn information. There is much more for me to learn than to teach.  With that said.. I have BS filter.

    Logic is all well and good.  But it should lead to hypothesis and then experiments.. and then successes and/or failures.

    You skipped a bunch of steps and then posted it not as opinion but as fact.

    And as @Jeremiah said.  Your wasting lump.
    Medium, and XL eggs in Galloway NJ.  Just outside of Atlantic City.  
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  • Eggcelsior
    Eggcelsior Posts: 14,414
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    UncleFred said:


    Skiddymarker said:

    On the top, closer to the front. Fire will follow air down through the lump pile, finding smoke wood on the way if you have distributed throughout the lump. 

    OK but..

    Fred19Flintstone said:

    To answer your question, I torch from above except once when my dome was stuck. 

    Heat rises...

    image

    Heat doesn't rise. It just diffuses from areas of higher concentration to lower.

    Hot air, however, is less dense than cold air so it will move up as long as colder air is there to replace it.
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  • Mikee
    Mikee Posts: 892
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    Where does the VOC's go when the lump never gets burnt off?

    I no longer believe in Santa Claus or the BBQ VOC Ferry.

    I just applied a lot of common sense. The VOC's are there. Burn them of immediately, or they'll burn off slowly during the cook.

    What happens to them if not burnt off initially? I guess they just disappear?

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  • rtt121
    rtt121 Posts: 653
    edited December 2014
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    Unfortunately I am not hear to say you are wrong and I am correct. I do not know for sure. 

    In reality I follow @Fred19Flintsone and just smell and watch the smoke. But I am also one that likes to know the science.

    If you read @DMW 's link to @Stike 's post he expaines a draft can dissipate VOC's.  He backs this up with no proof either though.
    Medium, and XL eggs in Galloway NJ.  Just outside of Atlantic City.  
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  • UncleFred
    UncleFred Posts: 458
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    As initiator of this thread do I have any responsibility as hall monitor?

    image
    As an intellectual exercise this discussion (and the referenced one about VOC's from 2012) have been really interesting and informative.  I'm not sure that we've reached any definitive conclusions yet.  But we might. If we don't devolve into sniping. Remember... opposing points of view are a necessary part in avoiding "groupthink"

    I now return you to your regularly scheduled programing...

    San Diego, CA - Where I've mastered Curmudgeon..working on Recluse.
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  • Mikee
    Mikee Posts: 892
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    On a low and slow the white smoke is not visible because it's slow.

    I'll try to explain it the way. Let's say there is a pound of VOC's in the lump that is in the fire box.

    One person fires up his egg and gets it hot and burns off 90% by getting it up to temp. The second person fires up his egg and backs it down before the lump on the bottom burns off the VOC's; only 40% of VOCs are burnt off.

    Person one will still have 10% of the VOC's burn off for the whole cook. The second person will have 60% burn off during the cook.

    The choice is to burn it off before you cook or allow it to be absorbed into your cook.

    I know which camp I'm in. Get rid of most of it before I start to cook.


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  • DMW
    DMW Posts: 13,832
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    @Mikee
    You are assuming you need flame (hot coals) to evacuate the VOCs.

    If VOCs are truly volatile, perhaps they will dissipate when in the presence of hot flowing air? Say when there is one area of lump burning hot during warmup?

    I don't know, I don't have a VOC monitor, but it sounds reasonable to me.

    They/Them
    Morgantown, PA

    XL BGE - S BGE - KJ Jr - HB Legacy - BS Pizza Oven - 30" Firepit - King Kooker Fryer -  PR72T - WSJ - BS 17" Griddle - XXL BGE  - BS SS36" Griddle - 2 Burner Gasser - Pellet Smoker
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  • Eggcelsior
    Eggcelsior Posts: 14,414
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    VOCs
    Mikee said:

    Where does the VOC's go when the lump never gets burnt off?

    I no longer believe in Santa Claus or the BBQ VOC Ferry.

    I just applied a lot of common sense. The VOC's are there. Burn them of immediately, or they'll burn off slowly during the cook.

    What happens to them if not burnt off initially? I guess they just disappear?

    @mikee, VOC's really get going around 300°F which is well below the temperature that wood burns at. The vast majority of VOC's go at the beginning of the lighting of the fire as the whole fire box is moving up past 300 while the actual lit area is around 1500 degrees. Since the majority burn off quickly, it's going to be negligible the rest of the cook. You can certainly wait longer if it makes you feel better, but as far as I'm concerned, you are getting diminished returns since BTUs are getting wasted.
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  • henapple
    henapple Posts: 16,025
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    image
    Green egg, dead animal and alcohol. The "Boro".. TN 
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  • Sardonicus
    Sardonicus Posts: 1,700
    edited December 2014
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    DMW said:
    @Mikee
    You are assuming you need flame (hot coals) to evacuate the VOCs.

    If VOCs are truly volatile, perhaps they will dissipate when in the presence of hot flowing air? . . . but it sounds reasonable to me.

    Perhaps the phrase "burning off" needs to be abandoned when discussing the removal of VOCs.  If Stike, SenecatheYounger, and others are to be believed, it's as much airflow/evaporation as it is exposure to flame/heat.

    FWIW, a cursory Google search yields no definitive answer - just other forums discussing same .  :-??


    "Too bad all the people who know how to run the country are busy driving cabs and barbecuing."      - George Burns

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  • Tjcoley
    Tjcoley Posts: 3,551
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    Just mount one of these on your Egg. About half way down the page it states it removes 100% of VOC's in your home. http://www.airocide.com/airocide-air-purifier/
    __________________________________________
    It's not a science, it's an art. And it's flawed.
    - Camp Hill, PA
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  • SGH
    SGH Posts: 28,791
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    40,000+ people die a year in automobile accidents according to statistics, and yet I drive everyday. Can't find where that VOC's from lump has killed anyone. So I'm just going to keep on cooking ;) Nothing better than a rare steak with a side of VOC ;)

    Location- Just "this side" of Biloxi, Ms.

    Status- Standing by.

    The greatest barrier against all wisdom, the stronghold against knowledge itself, is the single thought, in ones mind, that they already have it all figured out. 

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  • Mikee
    Mikee Posts: 892
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    The issue is that starting the lump at one spot does very little to ensure that 'all' of the lump gets up to temperature.

    Get most lump up to temp before backing it down. Warm lump on the bottom is no different than fresh lump poured into the fire box.

    I prefer my lump to be hot and glowing; then back off once there is no white smoke.

    Does it waste some lump? Yes, but not much as it allows me to burn off the grate.

    I'll stand by my method and heat up lump. Those who like the nasty smoke to give them a flavor so be it.

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  • Eggcelsior
    Eggcelsior Posts: 14,414
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    Mikee said:

    The issue is that starting the lump at one spot does very little to ensure that 'all' of the lump gets up to temperature.

    Get most lump up to temp before backing it down. Warm lump on the bottom is no different than fresh lump poured into the fire box.

    I prefer my lump to be hot and glowing; then back off once there is no white smoke.

    Does it waste some lump? Yes, but not much as it allows me to burn off the grate.

    I'll stand by my method and heat up lump. Those who like the nasty smoke to give them a flavor so be it.

    What temperature?

    I have no "nasty smoke" so it doesn't flavor my food. Nice logical fallacy there.
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  • Sardonicus
    Sardonicus Posts: 1,700
    edited December 2014
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    Mikee said:

    The issue is . . . I'll stand by my method and heat up lump. Those who like the nasty smoke to give them a flavor so be it.


    :| Seems like your mind is made up, Mikee.  Cool.  Nothing wrong with that. :)>-

    image

    B-)


    "Too bad all the people who know how to run the country are busy driving cabs and barbecuing."      - George Burns

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  • Fred19Flintstone
    Fred19Flintstone Posts: 8,168
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    I think the point @Mikee is you are trying to convince people who have a few years of BBQ & egging experience that their method is wrong. Also you are trying to convince the same people that your method derived unscientifically is superior. Oh yeah, your credibility with your 108 post count is zilch compared to those eggheads who are "doing it wrong".
    Flint, Michigan
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  • theyolksonyou
    theyolksonyou Posts: 18,458
    edited December 2014
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    @Mikee‌ as I said on your royal oak post, if you're happy good. I don't get a taste from nasty smoke by catching temp on the way up. Have you tried catching on the way up to compare or have you always heated all your lump? I would suggest a test: catch on the way up and let it stabalize for 30 minutes or until smoke clears/smells good and compare/contrast here. I'd be interested in your findings.
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