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OT, SV not BGE Somebody please tell me what happened

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td66snrf
td66snrf Posts: 1,822
edited November 2014 in EggHead Forum
I sous vide some boneless short ribs for about 72 hrs. One package turned to mush. I was afraid to open it. That one package unlike the rest at the end of the cook had, I hate to use the term ballooned, but had air in the package and was no longer vacuumed sealed, it was still sealed, I squeezed it hard underwater and it did not leak. It was if something inside had started to grow, off gassing something and growing. Like I said earlier it had turned the meat to mush. I refused to open it and threw it directly in the garbage.  I served the rest for my FIL bday celebration with a red wine with mushroom reduction and the rest were a huge success. Will someone out there please give me some insight so I can avoid this happening again. Thanks. Tim     
XLBGE, LBGE, MBGE, SMALL, MINI, 2 Kubs, Fire Magic Gasser
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Comments

  • 4Runner
    4Runner Posts: 2,948
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    No clue. Hope someone will chime in. I did beef short ribs for about the same time and less as well and in both cases didn't up like you described.
    Joe - I'm a reformed gasser-holic aka 4Runner Columbia, SC Wonderful BGE Resource Site: http://www.nakedwhiz.com/ceramicfaq.htm and http://www.nibblemethis.com/  and http://playingwithfireandsmoke.blogspot.com/2006/02/recipes.html
    What am I drinking now?   Woodford....neat
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  • td66snrf
    td66snrf Posts: 1,822
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    @nolaegghead You're the scientific side of cooking expert. Your opinion please. Thanks, TD
    XLBGE, LBGE, MBGE, SMALL, MINI, 2 Kubs, Fire Magic Gasser
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  • caliking
    caliking Posts: 18,731
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    To clarify, when you found the mushy package, it had air in it, but the seal was intact? Maybe some air was left in it when you were sealing the bags prior to cooking? Were the bags weighted down I the bath, fully submerged?

    #1 LBGE December 2012 • #2 SBGE February  2013 • #3 Mini May 2013
    A happy BGE family in Houston, TX.
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  • Zmokin
    Zmokin Posts: 1,938
    edited November 2014
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    The FDA recommends food never being allowed to be between 40 & 140 for more than 4 hours.  Based on this, I don't think it can ever be safe to SV something for 72 hours unless it is over 140 degrees the entire time.  I'm guessing you were smart in not even opening that bag as I bet it would have smelled like dead rotting flesh.
    Large BGE in a Sole' Gourmet Table
    Using the Black Cast Iron grill, Plate Setter,
     and a BBQ Guru temp controller.

    Medium BGE in custom modified off-road nest.
    Black Cast Iron grill, Plate Setter, and a Party-Q temp controller.

    Location: somewhere West of the Mason-Dixon Line
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  • caliking
    caliking Posts: 18,731
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    @Zmokin - FDA recs don't necessarily apply to sous vide cooking.

    Try this:

    http://www.seriouseats.com/2010/04/sous-vide-basics-low-temperature-chicken.html


    #1 LBGE December 2012 • #2 SBGE February  2013 • #3 Mini May 2013
    A happy BGE family in Houston, TX.
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  • DMW
    DMW Posts: 13,832
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    @Zmokin
    The 40* - 140* is over simplified. You can kill the bugs at temps lower than 140* IF the temperature is controlled and maintained.


    They/Them
    Morgantown, PA

    XL BGE - S BGE - KJ Jr - HB Legacy - BS Pizza Oven - 30" Firepit - King Kooker Fryer -  PR72T - WSJ - BS 17" Griddle - XXL BGE  - BS SS36" Griddle - 2 Burner Gasser - Pellet Smoker
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  • Skiddymarker
    Skiddymarker Posts: 8,522
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    What temp was the water bath? I've never gone longer than 36 hours at 140ºF for any boneless short ribs - your's were boneless right? 
    Delta B.C. - Whiskey and steak, because no good story ever started with someone having a salad!
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  • td66snrf
    td66snrf Posts: 1,822
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    caliking  To clarify The bag was vacuumed sealed when I put them in and yes the bag in question was definitely still sealed but it had expanded. The bags were submerged but not weighted down. You may have just pointed out my problem.

    Skiddymarker The ribs were choice boneless from Costco, probably about 1.5 lbs each. I cooked them at 130 deg.

    Thanks for your help and input.

    XLBGE, LBGE, MBGE, SMALL, MINI, 2 Kubs, Fire Magic Gasser
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  • caliking
    caliking Posts: 18,731
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    The bags should always be completely submerged, with all air removed. A floating bag will have different parts of it at different temps.  I use the rack that came with my Sous Vide Supreme demi or a heavyish ceramic plate bowl to keep things underwater. Also,  as much air as possible needs to be sucked out, or else you may get a floater.

    With the FoodSaver, I have had 2 bags fail in the past (one in the freezer, one in the SV). Now, I wait about 30secs for the seal to set before placing the bag in the freezer or SV bath.


    #1 LBGE December 2012 • #2 SBGE February  2013 • #3 Mini May 2013
    A happy BGE family in Houston, TX.
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  • td66snrf
    td66snrf Posts: 1,822
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    caliking I too use a foodsaver. The bag did not fail but I did fail to keep the bag fully submerged. I made the assumption that as long as the meat was submerged I was good to go. Thanks again for taking time out of your day to solve my dilemma. Tim D
    XLBGE, LBGE, MBGE, SMALL, MINI, 2 Kubs, Fire Magic Gasser
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  • DMW
    DMW Posts: 13,832
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    FWIW, I find toaster oven size racks to be very useful for keeping stuff in place in a water bath.
    They/Them
    Morgantown, PA

    XL BGE - S BGE - KJ Jr - HB Legacy - BS Pizza Oven - 30" Firepit - King Kooker Fryer -  PR72T - WSJ - BS 17" Griddle - XXL BGE  - BS SS36" Griddle - 2 Burner Gasser - Pellet Smoker
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  • rtt121
    rtt121 Posts: 653
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    Good thread.  I am still interested in what happened.  Would have loved a gross mush picture.... not saying it didnt happen or anything.
    Medium, and XL eggs in Galloway NJ.  Just outside of Atlantic City.  
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  • Canugghead
    Canugghead Posts: 11,527
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    Did a quick google and find this interesting post below.  Were the short ribs already deboned? perhaps it was contaminated because deboning (though not as bad as grinding) could introduce baddies, compound that with floating bag and the baddies just went rampant?

    canuckland
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  • Chef Charles
    Chef Charles Posts: 871
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    I find that I get floaters when I sous vide vegetables.  I saw a tip on the net to use a wire steamer basket to keep the bags submerged and it works quite well.

    Tom

    Charles is a mischevious feline who always has something cooking

    Twin lbge's .. grew up in the sun parlor of Canada but now egging in the nation's capital

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  • Zmokin
    Zmokin Posts: 1,938
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    DMW said:
    @Zmokin
    The 40* - 140* is over simplified. You can kill the bugs at temps lower than 140* IF the temperature is controlled and maintained.


    Learn something new everyday, but reading the other link someone else provided, at 125 you are a breeding ground for bacteria.  With temperature gauge tolerances, I understand the guideline for 131F minimum and with tendency for caution, I think if I ever was to get an SV, I would set my personal minimum to 135, but I seriously doubt I will ever buy an SV.  I think the dudes results show he was growing death in that bag.  sounds like improper submersion had his one bag in the danger zone temperature wise.
    Large BGE in a Sole' Gourmet Table
    Using the Black Cast Iron grill, Plate Setter,
     and a BBQ Guru temp controller.

    Medium BGE in custom modified off-road nest.
    Black Cast Iron grill, Plate Setter, and a Party-Q temp controller.

    Location: somewhere West of the Mason-Dixon Line
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  • DMW
    DMW Posts: 13,832
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    @Zmokin‌
    Yes, I wouldn't do an extended SV at 125*. When I did 72 hour shorts ribs, I was at 138*. BTW, they were amazing.
    They/Them
    Morgantown, PA

    XL BGE - S BGE - KJ Jr - HB Legacy - BS Pizza Oven - 30" Firepit - King Kooker Fryer -  PR72T - WSJ - BS 17" Griddle - XXL BGE  - BS SS36" Griddle - 2 Burner Gasser - Pellet Smoker
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