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A tale of TWO Spatchcocks; Can you solve this chicken riddle?

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KiterTodd
KiterTodd Posts: 2,466
in EggHead Forum
One was epic, the other was 'meh...

Earlier in the week I made THIS Spatchcock.   We'll call it CHICKEN #1.  It was fingerlicking good.  We picked the bones clean and I contemplated leaving my day job and opening up a chicken stand.   I had apparently cracked the secret (with your help) and had made chicken as good or better than any I have had!!!  The seasonings permeated every bite, the skin was crisp and the meat was smoky and juicy.

I made one tonight, CHICKEN #2, and it was...just good.  Still very juicy.  Still nice flavor.  But didn't blow me away more than other roast chickens I've had.   Had a nice flavor from the lump but the skin wasn't crispy and it just wasn't a pick the bones clean kind of an affair.  

Most everything was the same...both 4 lbs chickens, rubbed both with Greek seasoning and oil.
Both cooked for one hour at 375ish per the naked whiz method.  Internal temps on both chickens were 160 in the breast and 180 in the thighs.

Below were the only differences that come to mind.  I welcome your opinion on what it could have been;

CHICKEN
 - Chicken #1 was Perdue.   Chicken #2 was Harris Teeter.

FRIDGE
- Chicken #1 sat in my fridge for a few days, still in it's packaging, until I had a chance to make it. 
- Chicken #2 was fresh from the store.  It still had some ice crystals in the cavity and I had to run water inside it to free up all the trimmings they stuff in there.  All the meat felt thawed when I was prepping the chicken.

PREP TIME
- I opened chicken #1 to prep, it was on the grill withing 30 minutes.
- I opened chicken #2 and prepped it 2 hours before cooking and let it sit (spatched, oiled and rubbed) in the fridge for two hours until I was ready to cook.

LUMP
- Chicken #1 was cooked on Royal Oak and I threw in some hickory wood chunks.  There were some FOGO coals left over from the weekend.
- Chicken #2 was cooked on Ozark Oak with no added wood.  There were some RO coals left over from the earlier cook.


I want to make this again...and I want Chicken #1 results!!!  :)
THANK YOU for any tips.

CHICKEN #1 (AFTER)
image

CHICKEN #1 (BEFORE)
image

CHICKEN #2 (AFTER)
image

CHICKEN #2 (BEFORE)
image
LBGE/Maryland
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Comments

  • Zmokin
    Zmokin Posts: 1,938
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    Based on the pictures, it looks like different temperatures are at play.

    Science = do A then B and you will always get C

    Art = do A then B, and sometimes you get C, sometimes you get D, sometimes you get ...
    Large BGE in a Sole' Gourmet Table
    Using the Black Cast Iron grill, Plate Setter,
     and a BBQ Guru temp controller.

    Medium BGE in custom modified off-road nest.
    Black Cast Iron grill, Plate Setter, and a Party-Q temp controller.

    Location: somewhere West of the Mason-Dixon Line
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  • EGGjlmh
    EGGjlmh Posts: 816
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    @KiterTodd I have had this problem too.  Don't know why either

    1MBGE 2006, 1LBGE 2010, 1 Mini Max, Fathers Day 2015

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  • gdenby
    gdenby Posts: 6,239
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    Off the top, my guess is that #1, tho wrapped, was pretty dry. Browned and crispy skin usually means dry skin + oils.

    As you say, #2 had ice crystals in the flesh. I suppose there was lots of water steaming out. The oil coat couldn't transfer the heat well enough to get crisping.

    I usually check towards the end of a cook. I would have flipped #2 skin side down to increase the browning.


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  • Botch
    Botch Posts: 15,468
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    You list four differences between the two cooks in your own post.  Go back to your first method!!!
     
    If I may quote Hee Haw:  
    "Doctor!  Doctor!  It hurts when I do this!"
    "Well, don't do that!"  
    :D
     
    All kidding aside, try to only change one thing per cook, if you had a really successful run the time before.  And, even if you keep everything exactly the same, there will be differences; you're cooking a (formerly) living animal, not some pink homogenous static artificial stuff at McDonald's...  
    ;)
    _____________

    Remember when teachers used to say 'You won't have a calculator everywhere you go'?  Well, we showed them.


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  • Dyal_SC
    Dyal_SC Posts: 6,052
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    Chicken 1 had wood chunks, so that's why it had more color and a smokier taste. It will also help to air dry in the fridge before adding the oil and rub. The skin will dry better that way. I imagine the oil kept the moisture from exiting the skin.

    That being said, both look great to me!
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  • KiterTodd
    KiterTodd Posts: 2,466
    edited August 2014
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    gdenby said:
    Off the top, my guess is that #1, tho wrapped, was pretty dry. Browned and crispy skin usually means dry skin + oils.

    As you say, #2 had ice crystals in the flesh. I suppose there was lots of water steaming out. The oil coat couldn't transfer the heat well enough to get crisping.

    I usually check towards the end of a cook. I would have flipped #2 skin side down to increase the browning.


    Good point.  The recipe says "no need to flip," but it's a good idea to check 45 minutes in.  If it isn't looking crisp...could be worthy of a flip.


    Botch, thanks.   Yeah...I didn't think I was doing anything different other than trying different lump.  But after there was such a stark difference in the results..... I had to think things through a bit.


    Now I have to make at least one more for myself before serving for guests....       :D
    LBGE/Maryland
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  • KiterTodd
    KiterTodd Posts: 2,466
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    Dyal_SC said:
    Chicken 1 had wood chunks, so that's why it had more color and a smokier taste. It will also help to air dry in the fridge before adding the oil and rub. The skin will dry better that way. I imagine the oil kept the moisture from exiting the skin. That being said, both look great to me!
    Yup.  I'm sure #2 was a mixture of oil and water by the time it hit the grill.   Those couple hours in the fridge probably had condensation on the bird plus moisture trying to come out.  At a minimum...yes, I should dry it and oil/rub just before it goes on.
    LBGE/Maryland
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  • Dobie
    Dobie Posts: 3,361
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    What stands out to me are: Two different brands of bird and you let one sit oiled and rubbed for two hours prior to cook. I do mine very light with compound butter or EVOO right before it goes on. Prior to that its uncovered in the fridge as long as it can after spatchcocking and drying with a paper towel.
    Jacksonville FL
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  • Hawg Fan
    Hawg Fan Posts: 1,517
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    I agree with KiterTodd. If it doesn't look crispy and nice color like #1, I flip the bird(no pun intended) for the last few minutes of the cook. A whole chicken is very forgiving. I've cooked them to 195 in the thighs before and still tasted great.

    Any road will take you there if you don't know where you're going.

    Terry

    Rockwall, TX
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  • berndcrisp
    berndcrisp Posts: 1,166
    edited August 2014
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    RIDDLE SOLVED!!!!!
    They all cook differently. especially when we introduce variables.

    The genealogical differences and geographical location dictates the kind of feed and feeding times. This creates an inconsistent molecular structure thus, taste. Any differences in cooking time, temp, and rubs etc, only exacerbates the above mentioned birds chemical makeup and will create inconsistent results.




    Hood Stars, Wrist Crowns and Obsession Dobs!


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  • KiterTodd
    KiterTodd Posts: 2,466
    edited August 2014
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    IT IS REPEATABLE!!!!

    image

    Had guests tonight.  Needed to make two!

    Thanks to the advice in this thread, I determined that the biggest fault was probably that my 2nd cook was a bird still in the process of thawing (or just thawed) thus it had a lot of moisture and condensation that came on in the fridge after I had oiled it.

    So, I bought these two birds a couple days ahead, and I even spatched them the night before and left the in the fridge.

    Perfect results!

    Only downside (not major) is the chickens were finished before a couple of the sides.  So I loosely tented them with foil and put the in the oven (turned off) to keep them warm.   While it kept them very hot, the loose foiling still took some of the crispness out of my skin, but it was still very flavorful and edible.
    LBGE/Maryland
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  • TTC
    TTC Posts: 1,035
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    I may not be able to solve the riddle, but I'd happily eat my way through it
    XL BGE, Blackstone, Roccbox, Weber Gasser, Brown Water, Cigars --  Gallatin, TN

    2001 Mastercraft Maristar 230 VRS

    Ikon pass 

    Colorado in the winter and the Lake in the Summer
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  • PNWFoodie
    PNWFoodie Posts: 1,046
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    Those look beautiful!
    XL, JR, and more accessories than anyone would ever need near Olympia, WA
    Sandy
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  • ChillyWillis
    ChillyWillis Posts: 893
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    Nice looking birds ya got there! Glad you were able to dial in that recipe to get consistent results.

    You know what they say... Once you go spatch you never go back :D
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  • Thatgrimguy
    Thatgrimguy Posts: 4,729
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    I bet the purdue chicken was pre-brined and the Harris Teeter one wasn't.
    XL, Small, Mini & Mini Max Green Egg, Shirley Fab Trailer, 6 gal and 2.5 gal Cajun Fryers, BlueStar 60" Range, 48" Lonestar Grillz Santa Maria, Alto Shaam 1200s, Gozney Dome, Gateway 55g Drum
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  • Skiddymarker
    Skiddymarker Posts: 8,522
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    Thatgrimguy said:
    I bet the purdue chicken was pre-brined and the Harris Teeter one wasn't.
    That's what I was thinking - but they do look awesome!
    Delta B.C. - Whiskey and steak, because no good story ever started with someone having a salad!
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  • KiterTodd
    KiterTodd Posts: 2,466
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    I actually went to buy another Purdue for this cook, but they didn't have any.  So, I used a Giant "Nature's Promise" bird.

    While on the topic of chickens...when I was in Harris Teeter for that 2nd cook my choices were the store brand chicken or some organic free range chicken that was $20!  $20 for a 4 lbs chicken...what?!?!  They were all shrink wrapped in the meat case.  It isn't like a butler was standing by a felt lined pen killing and cleaning the chickens you choose. 

    Anyway, I want to experiment now with different rubs on the bird, but my family is tired of chicken after 3 cooks in a week, so I'll have to work on something else for a while.  :)
    LBGE/Maryland
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