No brine, hope it's fine

Nature Boy · July 2000

Howdy.
Pulled a 6.5 pound bird out of the fridge, and for the first time, I am cooking an unbrined bird. I mixed up a paste with shallots, peanut oil, oyster and soy sauce, honey, ginger powder, rosemary and thyme. Oh yeah, and a little spicy mustard. Kind of a strange combo, but it is how I felt at the time. Hoping for something edible.[p]Got it all up under the skin, and am marinating for about 4 hours. I think I'll try this guy in a v-rack and small drip pan, maybe 300 dome. [p]Never thought cooking could be this fun. Even after a full year of not letting up. Cheers!
NB[p]

BluesnBBQ · July 2000

Nature Boy,[p]I'm sure it will be great. Brining helps a lot, but is not necessary (IMHO).

Gretl · July 2000

Nature Boy,
Yesterday I roasted a 6 lb bird on a poultry sitter with a small can half full of beer. I saved a can from some Rotel tomatoes with jalapenos, which is just the perfect size to fit in the poultry sitter. I didn't brine the bird, either. It was sort of a last-minute dinner decision. [p]After washing and drying the chicken, I sat it up on its little perch and slathered it all over with a dijon mustard and honey combo, then sprinkled with lots of pepper and some salt. I was in a hurry, and didn't even marinate it. I roasted it sitting in a foil-lined drip pan on a pizza stone; I put a little beer in the drip pan as well as in the can. At about 350, it only took about 1 1/2 hours. The top of the bird (its shoulders was too dark; just about black. But the meat under the skin was excellent, and the drippings made great gravy. Honestly, it was so easy it was almost embarrassing. The meat just fell off the bones! I should have kept the temp at around 300 to avoid blackening the skin, I guess. [p]Your spice combo sounds awesome. Makes me want to do another chicken. I can't believe I cooked a chicken after we saw Chicken Run, which I recommend enthusiastically! Great movie.[p]Cheers,
G.

Char-Woody · July 2000

Gretl, I'm jumping in here as its not my thread but I have done birds at much higher temperatures with out blackening the skin. I wonder if your not cooking higher temps than what you realize..Have you checked your thermometer in boiling water?
If not, yell out for proper proceedures for doing that..
Cheers..C~W[p]

Nature Boy · July 2000

Gretl,
Thanks! Yeah I have been having a similar experience with the skin getting dark in areas.[p]I would like to try breast down in a v-rack (used vertical roaster in the past...something new). I figure the breast meat being closest to the drip pan and will cook a bit slower than if it was up. I guess I'll see how it looks once I plop it on. [p]I like your mustard idea. Did you rub it all over the outside of the skin??[p]I think I will put her on at about 5 o'clock at 300, and plan on carving by 7:30. I'll let you know how the v-rack and the bizarre paste ingredients work out.[p]Cheers
NB

Cornfed · July 2000

Nature Boy,[p]"No brine, hope it's fine"[p]You are a poet, and didn't even know it![p]Cornily yours,
Cornfed

BluesnBBQ · July 2000

Char-Woody,[p]I've done some high temp chickens, and they've turned out great. I cook them at around 400-450 indirectly. I put a piza stone on the grid, a drip pan on the pizza stone, either a poultry sitter on the drip pan, or on a roasting rack (and I've tried it with the bird on a sitter, which goes on the roasting rack, over the drip pan). [p]I rub the skin with olive oil, and I've used various pastes, rubs and brines. The skin usually turns out crispy, and generally doesn't burn (maybe in a couple of places, like the tips of the wings).[p]I've posted about this before, but I can't seem to find it in the archives.

Gretl · July 2000

Char-Woody,
I think I will check the temperature gauge. The procedure is just submerging the probe end in boiling water and making sure the dial reads 212, correct?[p]And heck, it's anyone's thread after all!![p]Cheers,
G.

Mary · July 2000

Nature Boy,
I've yet to try brining because it makes the meat salty and I don't much like the current fad of salty meat.[p]Breast down birds is the way to go. All the juices go into the breast meat instead of the back - makes it yummy. I always do birds like this after seeing a recomendation from some star chef a few years ago. Just put breast side up for the last 1/2 hour to brown the top. Your marinade sounds great.[p]Mary

Nature Boy · July 2000

BluesnBBQ,
Great points. The skin usually darkens for me where you describe, and also where the bird is close to the wall of the dome. My vertical roaster is really tall, and often the bird gets close to the sides of the dome. We'll see how it does with a different setup in the vrack.[p]I usually cook the birds in the 400 range, but want to see how it does at 300. We don't eat the skin, so don't really care if it is crispy. [p]Gettin close to ignition time![p]Here birdy birdy.
NB

Mary · July 2000

BluesnBBQ,
This is basically Barbara Kafka's recommnedation about roasting. She insists roasting should be done at about 500F in her roasting book.[p]Mary

Gretl · July 2000

Nature Boy,
Yep; I used equal amounts of mustard and honey and just massaged the little birdie until it was thoroughly covered with the stuff. As I said, the gravy was delicious! If I wasn't so rushed, I'm sure I would have become more extravagent with the ingredients. Your mix sounds awesome. But then again, sometimes I'm happy with something as simple as honey and mustard, or even plain old olive oil and salt and pepper. [p]Hey, wait a minute!.The garlic/olive oil bird I did a week or so ago didn't get too dark; I think it just might be the honey. Anything sweet seems to darken very quickly. Just my observation. Well, well. I'll just have to experiment some more![p]Cheers,
G.

Zip · July 2000

Gretl,[p]Yes, the honey will cause you problems with higher heat. A much smaller ammount of honey/mustard/spice rub can be rubbed under the skin with good results. Then coat the skin with oil and salt for a nice brown color. Just go easy on the rub under the skin, it can be overpowering, especially on the breast.[p]Z

Nature Boy · July 2000

Zip,
Makes a bunch of sense that the honey would burn on the skin. As far as the spices being overpowering on the breast, I don't have to worry there! My wife loves heavily marinated "flavored meat" and will shy away from any meat that is not heavily flavored. I didn't use any garlic in this mix at least![p]Thanks
NB

Nature Boy · July 2000

Mary,
I disagree on the saltiness of the brining. I have had great luck with 1/2 cup kosher salt and a cup of sugar in the mix (along with other goodies). No more than 12 hours.
Only once it was salty...I used a whole cup of salt and brined 24 hours. Is salty meat a fad??[p]Breast down it is. Is it difficult to flip the bird to finish breast up??[p]Thanks
NB

BluesnBBQ · July 2000

Mary,[p]A few months ago The Washington Post had an article about high temp roasting (in the oven). That's where I got the idea to try it in the Egg.

Zip · July 2000

Nature Boy,[p]I'm curious about salty meat fad myself. I will have to agree with NB about the saltiness. I too have had one turkey breast that was salty, but that was because it had been injected prior to me brining. I won't do that again. I can say that what is salty to one is not enough for others, kind of like smoke flavor in meat. [p]Z

JJ · July 2000

Nature Boy,
It is still fun after 22 yrs of cooking on an EGG. You got 21 yrs more to go and you will still be having fun.

Nature Boy · July 2000

JJ,
I can picture it! I am ready.
The chicken was awesome. A juicy bit of heaven.
Egg On.
NB

JJ · July 2000

Nature Boy,
Knew you would like it without the brine. I have always followed the KISS method of doing things. BTW I am still learning and enjoying it.

Mary · July 2000

Nature Boy,
Not really hard to turn over with a couple of meat forks and if you have it on a V rack. Getting it brown on top is mostly for looks.[p]saltiness is a personal taste thing and I like quite a bit less salt than most people do, especially in meat or poultry. sometimes a light soy sauce marinade is too salty for me.[p]Mary

Nature Boy · July 2000

Mary,
Yeah saltiness definitely is a taste thing. My wife seems to think everything is too salty lately. I used to have less tolerance than her. Go figure.[p]I guess I just found out killer chicken can be made without brining. The breast meat was dripping when I carved it. Yum.[p]Have a good one.
NB

Gretl · July 2000

Nature Boy,
I'm glad your bird was awesome. That Egg has a magical way of roasting poultry. And everything else, too! I think that except for SOME desserts, my indoor oven could be retired!
Cheers,
Gretl

Anthony Up North · July 2000

Gretl,[p]Yep you're right. Honey, molassees, or anything with much sugar in will carmalize (turn dark brown like candy) when exposed to high heat. [p]I had the same experience. The wife, has a teaches food chemistry, immediately knew what was wrong. [p]Reducing the honey and adding olive oil to your marinade should solve the problem.[p]Anthony

No brine, hope it's fine

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