Big Green Egg - EGGhead Forum - The Ultimate Cooking Experience...
We hope you all got to celebrate those tasty food holidays last week, we sure enjoyed them! We are even more excited about the beginning of fall, for so many reasons, but mainly for experiencing the cool, crisp air while being outside cooking up the best recipes the season has to offer. We especially love these Beer Pork Tenderloin and Ground Beef Acorn Squash recipes! Fall is upon us, and it's a great time for getting out to one of the many #EGGfests around the country - see a list here

King Arthur Flour Hamburger Roll Recipe...(pix)

Dyal_SCDyal_SC Posts: 1,776

So, @EddieK76 and @Griffin were referencing some homemade hamburger rolls in Griffin's recent burger post.  As to not to hijack Griffin's post, I thought I'd start another thread.  @jfm0830 is who got me to try this recipe.  He, Griffin, Eddie and I have been friends on another forum for years.  We haven't really discussed this topic in depth before, but I thought it might be a good topic to discuss on this forum.  Eddie and I were texting back and forth earlier today, and both came to the conclusion that the recipe in general produces a roll that is more dense (almost more heavy or "biscuit-like") than the hamburger rolls to which we are more accustomed.  This is the recipe to which I'm referring.

image

 

image

 

image

 

image

 

I'm not sure if any others on this forum have had any experience with this recipe, but I would love to know if you have.  I plan on trying it later this week with less flour.  I'll weigh it on my next attempt, instead of relying on measuring it with "cups".  Eddie and I were slightly disappointed because of the dense texture of the roll....if any of you have any recommendations regarding "weight" vs "volume", we'd love to hear it.  Thanks in advance! 

 

2014 Co-Wing King

Comments

  • I've made those a couple of times. Mine turned out like yours kind of too dense. Here's a blog on those buns. I'm going to look through that for suggestions/ideas http://www.kingarthurflour.com/blog/2011/05/16/countdown-to-summer-beautiful-burger-buns/
  • EggcelsiorEggcelsior Posts: 8,873
    Definitely give the weight option a try. Scooping a cup of flour can have a variation of 4 to 5.5 ounces depending on settling and your scooping prowess. The recipe calls for 14.75 oz of flour; this is on the light side. If you don't have a scale, try sifting the flour. This incorporates air, lightening the overall volume.

    I worked in a bakery for 2 years in college. All bread and cakes were done by weight, not volume. This is how it's done in all bakeries outside of your kitchen.
  • jfm0830jfm0830 Posts: 882
    edited March 2013
    Dyal this is going to sound like I am being defensive in a moment, but I am not. Everyone is entitled to their own tastes. That is why there are so many recipes and types of food and that is a great thing about this hobby. I have been baking those hamburger rolls for 5 or 6 years now and any time I have made them, people always say they are the best burger buns they've tried. I agree they have a different texture than commercial rolls, and to me that is a good thing. Your mileage may vary as to whether that is a good thing or not. To me the buttery and sweet flavor of the buns, PLUS their slightly denser texture all make them superior to store bought rolls.

    image

    @Eggcelsior is right on about the weight option. I took several classes at the King Arthur Four HQ in Vermont to learn baking. At first I learned how to bake specifically so I could make my own hamburger and hot dog rolls. The first class I took they had us scoop out 1 cup of KAF all-purpose flour. The "official" weight of 1 cup of their All-purpose flour is 4.25 oz per cup. Out of the 20 people in the class, 3 got it right and the rest of us were over or under by up to an ounce. The only way to be precise is to measure out the main ingredients, which is why KAF gives weights for these items in their recipes as well. The first thing I did when I got home from that class is buy a Salter Zero Tare Digital Scale. If you don't have  scale yet, buy a zero tare model where you can put a plate or bowl on the scale, zero it out and then weight your ingredient after the container has been zeroed out of the equation. Another thing that can affect the recipe is the amount of humidity in the air. This can affect the rise, which can affect the texture. I'm guessing it is a whole lot more humid in S.C. in the Winter than it is here in MA. So you also need to tweak recipes by adding a little flour or water to get the consistency of the dough right.

    image

    There is another reason that the homemade version of the rolls may seem too dense. I do believe that most commercial bakeries add either chemicals or otherwise aerate the buns to get that light texture. The cynic in me always thought they did it because more air=less ingredients=lower cost to them. Until I met you I never knew people actually liked the lighter texture. A few years ago I sent you some packages of some side split New England Style Hot Dog Rolls. I felt bad because I had to send you a commercial version so they wouldn't spoil while shipping. You loved the rolls and specifically commented on the light airy texture they had. My FIL and I had a bit of a giggle over that one, because that is not a good feature for us. We like the denser homemade version of those hotdog rolls. Most commercial hamburg or hotdog rolls do not hold up well to chili.  My FIL, who used to be a commercial baker for 8 years, spent that summer trying to achieve a homemade version of hotdog rolls similar to the ones I sent you. He never could do it. 

    So there is my 22 cents worth. Do try making the recipe by weight. I always do my recipes by weight. When I enter the recipe into my recipe software, I always add the weights of the ingredients if the original recipe doesn't provide them. Don't sweat the small stuff like 1/2 tsp of salt. If the recipe doesn't have the weights for certain items, KAF has this handy chart. 


    Jim
    BBQ Website: grillin' & smokin'

    Middlesex County, MA
    Three Large BGE's & Too Many Eggcessories to Count
  • jerrypjerryp Posts: 226
    Have you considered cake flour?
  • EggcelsiorEggcelsior Posts: 8,873
    @Dyal_SC - just to clarify, when I said "your kitchen" I was making a generalization about home vs professional baking, not you vs everyone else. I reread my comment and noticed it looks like the latter with the way I phrased it.
  • EggcelsiorEggcelsior Posts: 8,873
    jerryp said:

    Have you considered cake flour?

    Cake flour is low protein(gluten) so they might not have enough chew(imagine trying to eat a cake sandwich - it would be too "tender" and fall apart). A mixture may work though. Another option is to use potato flakes/flour or a southern AP flour. Southern wheat has a lower protein content than it's northern counterparts. This is why KAF bakes up so well in breads.
  • Dyal_SCDyal_SC Posts: 1,776
    Yeah, I figured it was the weight factor. @jfm0830, I'll give the 4.25 oz per cup a try on my next attempt. :) Thanks a lot!
    2014 Co-Wing King
  • jfm0830jfm0830 Posts: 882
    edited March 2013

    Dyal_SC said:
    Yeah, I figured it was the weight factor. @jfm0830, I'll give the 4.25 oz per cup a try on my next attempt. :) Thanks a lot!
    @Dyal , they still are going to be a somewhat denser, even measured by weight. If you haven't done so, go back to the KAF website and reprint the recipe by weight. Their recipes typically have  checkboxes for ingredients measured by Volume, Ounces or Grams. As I mentioned you should weigh all ingredients other than tiny amounts like 1/2 tsp.
    BBQ Website: grillin' & smokin'

    Middlesex County, MA
    Three Large BGE's & Too Many Eggcessories to Count
  • GriffinGriffin Posts: 6,418

    They look great, if looks count for anything. I really need to get a scale...correction...a digital scale not the dinky littly one that Mrs. G got from somewhere or other. Both for baking and sausage making.

    @jfm0830 - didn't you do some New England type hot dog buns at one time?

    Richardson, Texas

    Griffin's Grub or you can find me on Facebook

    The Supreme Potentate, Sovereign Commander and Sultan of Wings

     

  • jfm0830jfm0830 Posts: 882
    edited March 2013
    Griffin said:

    They look great, if looks count for anything. I really need to get a scale...correction...a digital scale not the dinky littly one that Mrs. G got from somewhere or other. Both for baking and sausage making.

    @jfm0830 - didn't you do some New England type hot dog buns at one time?

    @Griffin - Make that a ZERO TARE digital scale. Like I said with a zero tare scale you can put your container on the scale, zero out it's weight with the push of a button and start weighing the ingredient. You can also do cumulative weights. Put a big bowl on the scale, zero it out, measure ingredient 1, zero out the scale, add ingredient 2, zero out the scale etc. I don't do this very often because if you go over it can be a problem extracting the overage. I use them sometimes for burgers too. Measure out the total batch of meat, divide that number by x patties and then weigh out the individual patties. Once again by having a zero tare scale, you can do the weighing on a plate or bowl and zero it out of the equation. Then you don't have to keep cleaning the scale, just throw the container in the DW.

    RE: N.E. Style hot dog rolls, I still do make them all the time whenever I have the time. While I bake more now, the whole reason I got into baking was so I could "roll my own".
    BBQ Website: grillin' & smokin'

    Middlesex County, MA
    Three Large BGE's & Too Many Eggcessories to Count
  • GriffinGriffin Posts: 6,418
    I got you on the zero tare option. I work in a lab and couldn't imagine a scale that didn't have a tare function.

    Richardson, Texas

    Griffin's Grub or you can find me on Facebook

    The Supreme Potentate, Sovereign Commander and Sultan of Wings

     

  • Z_EggineerZ_Eggineer Posts: 537
    Dyal_SC said:

    So, @EddieK76 and @Griffin were referencing some homemade hamburger rolls in Griffin's recent burger post.  As to not to hijack Griffin's post, I thought I'd start another thread.  @jfm0830 is who got me to try this recipe.  He, Griffin, Eddie and I have been friends on another forum for years.  We haven't really discussed this topic in depth before, but I thought it might be a good topic to discuss on this forum.  Eddie and I were texting back and forth earlier today, and both came to the conclusion that the recipe in general produces a roll that is more dense (almost more heavy or "biscuit-like") than the hamburger rolls to which we are more accustomed.  This is the recipe to which I'm referring.

    image

     

    image

     

    image

     

    image

     

    I'm not sure if any others on this forum have had any experience with this recipe, but I would love to know if you have.  I plan on trying it later this week with less flour.  I'll weigh it on my next attempt, instead of relying on measuring it with "cups".  Eddie and I were slightly disappointed because of the dense texture of the roll....if any of you have any recommendations regarding "weight" vs "volume", we'd love to hear it.  Thanks in advance! 

     

    OMG, we just made these this weekend too after King Arthur's got recommended to me by fellow eggheads and it was on sale (used/warehouse) on Amazon.com.  We loved them and used WEIGHT.  You can get decent digital scales for $10 and are good for coffee measuring too. 
  • Z_EggineerZ_Eggineer Posts: 537
    jfm0830 said:
    Dyal this is going to sound like I am being defensive in a moment, but I am not. Everyone is entitled to their own tastes. That is why there are so many recipes and types of food and that is a great thing about this hobby. I have been baking those hamburger rolls for 5 or 6 years now and any time I have made them, people always say they are the best burger buns they've tried. I agree they have a different texture than commercial rolls, and to me that is a good thing. Your mileage may vary as to whether that is a good thing or not. To me the buttery and sweet flavor of the buns, PLUS their slightly denser texture all make them superior to store bought rolls.

    image

    @Eggcelsior is right on about the weight option. I took several classes at the King Arthur Four HQ in Vermont to learn baking. At first I learned how to bake specifically so I could make my own hamburger and hot dog rolls. The first class I took they had us scoop out 1 cup of KAF all-purpose flour. The "official" weight of 1 cup of their All-purpose flour is 4.25 oz per cup. Out of the 20 people in the class, 3 got it right and the rest of us were over or under by up to an ounce. The only way to be precise is to measure out the main ingredients, which is why KAF gives weights for these items in their recipes as well. The first thing I did when I got home from that class is buy a Salter Zero Tare Digital Scale. If you don't have  scale yet, buy a zero tare model where you can put a plate or bowl on the scale, zero it out and then weight your ingredient after the container has been zeroed out of the equation. Another thing that can affect the recipe is the amount of humidity in the air. This can affect the rise, which can affect the texture. I'm guessing it is a whole lot more humid in S.C. in the Winter than it is here in MA. So you also need to tweak recipes by adding a little flour or water to get the consistency of the dough right.

    image

    There is another reason that the homemade version of the rolls may seem too dense. I do believe that most commercial bakeries add either chemicals or otherwise aerate the buns to get that light texture. The cynic in me always thought they did it because more air=less ingredients=lower cost to them. Until I met you I never knew people actually liked the lighter texture. A few years ago I sent you some packages of some side split New England Style Hot Dog Rolls. I felt bad because I had to send you a commercial version so they wouldn't spoil while shipping. You loved the rolls and specifically commented on the light airy texture they had. My FIL and I had a bit of a giggle over that one, because that is not a good feature for us. We like the denser homemade version of those hotdog rolls. Most commercial hamburg or hotdog rolls do not hold up well to chili.  My FIL, who used to be a commercial baker for 8 years, spent that summer trying to achieve a homemade version of hotdog rolls similar to the ones I sent you. He never could do it. 

    So there is my 22 cents worth. Do try making the recipe by weight. I always do my recipes by weight. When I enter the recipe into my recipe software, I always add the weights of the ingredients if the original recipe doesn't provide them. Don't sweat the small stuff like 1/2 tsp of salt. If the recipe doesn't have the weights for certain items, KAF has this handy chart. 


    Jim
    How to you get yours that awesome brown color?
  • jfm0830jfm0830 Posts: 882
    How to you get yours that awesome brown color?
    The recipe calls for an egg wash where you use 1 eggwhite. This helps hold on the seeds and gives it good color. The last time I made these, I was out of eggs and used butter and the color is nowhere near as good.
    BBQ Website: grillin' & smokin'

    Middlesex County, MA
    Three Large BGE's & Too Many Eggcessories to Count
  • I wonder if using the KAF Cake Enhancer or Vital Wheat Gluten would give it different texture. I use one or the other when baking bread. I'll give it a try next time I make hamburg or hot dog buns
  • BENTEBENTE Posts: 8,337
    i started making hamburger buns several years ago and finally gave up. i told yousaturday what i do when i want a good bun and they are always good. i would like to make my hoagie rolls better. they seem to be lacking in "lightness" also. but that is whats fun about baking finding the little tweeks that will help you out....

    happy eggin

    TB

    Anderson S.C.

    "Life is too short to be diplomatic. A man's friends shouldn't mind what he does or says- and those who are not his friends, well, the hell with them. They don't count."

    Tyrus Raymond Cobb

  • EddieK76EddieK76 Posts: 415
    I like the crunchy exterior and light interior....One of the restaurants here called "Bubs Burgers" makes his own buns and his are exactly like that....Bubs was featured on Man v. Food once before.

    But I'm gonna keep trying these out and someday I'll master it :)
  • Charlie tunaCharlie tuna Posts: 2,191
    We are kind of stuck on Chabata rolls since they freeze and stay very good.  For pulled pork we grill them inside buttered and they are hard to beat on burgers, and steak sandwiches.
  • calikingcaliking Posts: 5,309
    This is a great thread!

    I'm with @jfm0830 on this one. I like dense bread - we have practically stopped buying bread from the grocery store because of the texture, which we feel is not dense enough. Breads form other countries/cultures/cuisines are not as light as American commercial bread. I'm working on baking more bread at home in my cheapo breadmaker I bought years ago, but for now we enjoy even the packaged bread mixes a lot more than the grocery store variety. 

    #1 LBGE December 2012 • #2 SBGE February  2013 • #3 Mini May 2013
    A happy BGE family in Houston, TX.
  • Try a Zojirushi bread maker..pretty awesome I gave my 12 yo Breadman to my daughter
Sign In or Register to comment.