Improved air flow?

RLeeper · January 21

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Big-Green-Egg-IMPROVED-Lower-Fire-Grate-10-gauge-Expanded-Stainless-Steel-/271116401423?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&var=570130850285&hash=item3f1fcbfb0f Was browsing Ebay and came across this. Wondering if anyone has any experience with these? Opinions? Thanks

bud812 · January 21

You are better off with the High-Que grate.

Skiddymarker · January 21

Never seen it until now. I have a High-Q so will not be in the market for some time. If you buy one. let us know how they work.

Chubbs · January 21

+1 on High Que.

Buckdodger · January 21

bud812 said:

You are better off with the High-Que grate.

Recently got a High-Que grate,,,quicker starts and better air flow.

Chubbs · January 21

Buckdodger said:

bud812 said:

You are better off with the High-Que grate.

Recently got a High-Que grate,,,quicker starts and better air flow.

Buck, have you done a low n slow with it yet? If so, did the temp creep up on you with the high que? It happened to me this weekend and it was overnight cook and didn't use the maverick.

jlsm · January 21

Temperature doesn't creep up. I do find that I shut the vents a tad more. Can't recommend the High-Que enough, especially with the mini.

Chubbs · January 21

jlsm said:

Temperature doesn't creep up. I do find that I shut the vents a tad more. Can't recommend the High-Que enough, especially with the mini.

This weekend I did a butt overnight. 250 stabalized dome for 1 hour. Butt on. Monitored an hour until is rose back to 250. Woke up and it was 350 dome 6 hours later. Needless to say shocked. Didnt use Maverick for this cook because we already have a baby monitor next to bed... This was first overnight cook with high que. It definitely does come to temp faster--i just need to play with the vent settings and get dialed in like I was with stock grate.

BuckeyeBob · January 21

High Que for me too. Ad no temperature creep. Love mine.

RLeeper · January 21

Thanks for the responses. Looks like ill be getting the High-Que in the near future

SamFerrise · January 21

I opened up the holes in my CI plate to 3/4" and it made a big difference.

BBQ_Greg · January 21

I'm a newbie with a stock grate. However, following this discussion I did a couple of searches and found this link http://www.nakedwhiz.com/productreviews/high-que/highq.htm . It appears as though at an extruded stainless steel grate may well warp over time.

Buckdodger · January 21

Chubbs said:

bud812 said:

You are better off with the High-Que grate.

Recently got a High-Que grate,,,quicker starts and better air flow.
Buck, have you done a low n slow with it yet? If so, did the temp creep up on you with the high que? It happened to me this weekend and it was overnight cook and didn't use the maverick.

Yes I have and had no problems with temp. Closed the bottom vent to about 1/8 in.

RLeeper · January 21

I'm a newbie with a stock grate. However, following this discussion I did a couple of searches and found this link http://www.nakedwhiz.com/productreviews/high-que/highq.htm . It appears as though at an extruded stainless steel grate may well warp over time.
Thanks for the info

stlcharcoal · January 23

Those are my grates on eBay.

The problem I had with the High-Que was the High price and that it's nothing more than a stainless steel cooking grid........the grids run one direction rather than cross hatch. This allows long pieces of charcoal to fall between the grids. With mine, the cross hatch prevents that, but still allows plenty of air (and ash) through without sacrificing airflow.

I'm sure High-Que makes a good product as you all seem to enjoy yours. That's why I didn't call them out on this in my auction--let people make their own decision. But since it's been brought up here, this is why I make them the way I do.

Performance wise, I cannot say mine if mine is any better or worse.....I'm sure it's about the same at a 30% savings.

I have been running mine in three of my four BGE's, and they have performed perfectly across a broad range of temperatures (with and without a temp controller.) Before that I used the cheapy SS from Home Depot and had to replace them about every 6 months. In my XL, I use two 18.5" Weber cooking grates rotated 90 to form a crosshatch, then tack welded together. Does the job for a while, but does break down under super high temps.

If you're interested in getting one, email me directly and I'll ship it for free. Thanks.

caliking · January 23

I thought about getting the High Que grate after reading about them, but then decided SJ charcoal grates were a similar and cheaper option. Will likely not last as long as the High Que, and I may need 2 of them rotated at 90° to prevent charcoal from falling through. Each grate is ~$10 delivered to my door, so I figured it is worth a shot.

stlcharcoal · January 23

I looked at these too, but the diameter is 14.5", right? In the large, the fire grate is only 10". That 14.5" raised the grate height in the bottom of the firebox ABOVE the side vent holes. Plus, with it sitting so much higher, you could not put as much charcoal in the firebox. Cut a 14.5" circle out of a pizza box, drop it in your fire box, and make sure you're comfortable with that height before ordering.

The same method in the XL with the 18.5" Weber grill grate works fantasic since it's stock cast iron fire grate is 17.25". Like you said, doesn't last as long, but my XL is the least used of my BGE family. I use my medium the most.......never would have though that.

SamFerrise · January 23

stlcharcoal said:

Those are my grates on eBay.
The problem I had with the High-Que was the High price and that it's nothing more than a stainless steel cooking grid........the grids run one direction rather than cross hatch. This allows long pieces of charcoal to fall between the grids. With mine, the cross hatch prevents that, but still allows plenty of air (and ash) through without sacrificing airflow.
I'm sure High-Que makes a good product as you all seem to enjoy yours. That's why I didn't call them out on this in my auction--let people make their own decision. But since it's been brought up here, this is why I make them the way I do.
Performance wise, I cannot say mine if mine is any better or worse.....I'm sure it's about the same at a 30% savings.
I have been running mine in three of my four BGE's, and they have performed perfectly across a broad range of temperatures (with and without a temp controller.) Before that I used the cheapy SS from Home Depot and had to replace them about every 6 months. In my XL, I use two 18.5" Weber cooking grates rotated 90 to form a crosshatch, then tack welded together. Does the job for a while, but does break down under super high temps.
If you're interested in getting one, email me directly and I'll ship it for free. Thanks.

I agree 100%. We are all trying to stretch our bucks as far as we can. I make most of my accessories so I can save my cash for grilling meat. Good luck!

RLeeper · January 23

Thanks for the input stlcharcoal all info is greatly appreciated and I may take you up on that free shipping offer. Do you have any pics of your grids after they have been used?

caliking · January 24

Actually, the charcoal grate for the Weber Smokey Joe Silver or Gold is about 10" diameter and is hardier than the cooking grid, which is about 14.5" in diameter. So it is similar to the High Que grate, just slightly bigger.

Using the 14.5" cooking grid might even be useful. If the holes of the firebox are under the coals you may get more heat. Plus a larger surface area of charcoal would be exposed to air possibly? You are right to point out that you would be cooking with less charcoal though, so I don't know how much of a difference that would make.

stlcharcoal · January 24

RLeeper said:

Thanks for the input stlcharcoal all info is greatly appreciated and I may take you up on that free shipping offer. Do you have any pics of your grids after they have been used?

Here ya go!

http://i263.photobucket.com/albums/ii158/allanteman/IMAG0322.jpg

http://i263.photobucket.com/albums/ii158/allanteman/IMAG0319.jpg

I just pulled this one out of my Large, it's about two years old. Lots of ash and residue on it. I'm not going to polish it back up for the sake of advertsing--this is what it looks like. The Large is my go to Egg for pizzas and other high temp cooks (I use the XL for low & slow and the Med for everything in between--the Mini will be my urn.) So, I would figure this things has probably seen 100+ cooks about 1000F and plenty more below that.

It does have a slight about of deformity as you can see from the pic......maybe 2mm from the center to the edge?? But that's it settling into the fire box since my cuts are never perfect circles--especially as early on as this one. I've gotten better with plasma since then.

In reference to the warpped one on the Naked Whiz's site mentioned previously in this thread......that is CHEAP, flimsy, low-grade stainless steel. Look at the pic, it looks like chicken wire. It got so hot that the weight of the charcoal caused it to sag down into the ash pit. My guess is that's about 18-gauge. When I first got my Medium Egg, I made fire grates out of this material since the ceramic one was junk. They would last about 3-4 months depending on how many 1000F+ I did, then I would throw them away. Then I found 10-gauge which is almost 3x a thick as 18-gauge. If you can bend it by hand, it's definitely going to bend at 1000F with 5-10 lbs of charcoal sitting on it.

stlcharcoal · January 24

caliking said:

Actually, the charcoal grate for the Weber Smokey Joe Silver or Gold is about 10" diameter and is hardier than the cooking grid, which is about 14.5" in diameter. So it is similar to the High Que grate, just slightly bigger. Using the 14.5" cooking grid might even be useful. If the holes of the firebox are under the coals you may get more heat. Plus a larger surface area of charcoal would be exposed to air possibly? You are right to point out that you would be cooking with less charcoal though, so I don't know how much of a difference that would make.

That's cool, I didn't realize there was a lower grate on those. I only saw the cooking grids for sale.

Getting the grate higher up in the fire box is not going to result in higher temps. The intake is the exact same size. More charcoal = higher temps. Case in point, a Large will get MUCH hotter than a Medium. Fill your firebox halfway, you won't get about 600-700F. Fill it all the way up and you'll have flames shooting through the top and the needle pegged. The key is lighting it from the bottom since the flames and heat will rise and get hotter and hotter. It will go from the bottom down too, it just take longer.

The XL has a very shallow fire box, similar if you were to put that 14.5" grate inside the Large. It gets hot spots and drives me crazy. It's much better to have that fire ball start low and centered, then grow from there. I'm not a thermodynamics major, but I do know my way around gas turbine engines which share some commonalities.

On long low & slow cooks, I can get 26+ hrs out of my Large at 225F with this grate, Pitmaster iQue 100, and my brand of charcoal. I don't open the lid once during the first 24 hrs unless the temp probes are getting near target temps ahead of time.

pgprescott · January 24

Hi-Q is like the grate in the bottom of a Weber kettle. I know that using lump on a weber kettle is a little tricky because pieces fall through as others have said. I laid a piece of expanded metal over the grate to correct this issue. It seems to me that the solution is to use a combo of both. Of course, you'll have to buy two items. Ouch.

RLeeper · January 24

Thanks for the pics. So much info to process! Sounds like I can't lose either way. My decision will be made soon. Just wish I could hear from someone who uses your product. Reviews!!

caliking · January 24

This is turning out to be a great thread. I'm new to egging, so I'm very interested in improving air flow, temperature control, optimizing charcoal use etc.

As stlcharcoal pointed out, a 14.5" grate would put the firebox holes under the charcoal, but the intake size remains the same. However, the surface area of charcoal exposed to air I think increases. I ran an experiment a few days back, since I had been thinking along those lines recently.

I made a tower out of expando, using my superior bending skills :) - 9" diameter x 10" high.

Filled it with lump, and lit it from the top with 2 Weber cubes. The bottom intake was wide open, as was the DW.

It took a little while, but after the egg had warmed up, I burped and opened the lid to let the coals get really fired up. Shortly after that, i noted this:

I let ir run at 700°F for a little while, and then closed the lower vent to bring the temp down ( still had to cook dinner). I think the tower of lump charcoal had maximal surface area exposed to air and thats how it got so hot. Any truth to this theory? I'm speculating, but it seems that it allowed for a smaller amount of lump to be used to achieve a high temperature in the egg. I would have thought I would have to fill the egg to the rim of the fire ring to get high temps?

nolaegghead · January 24

You have a fixed size intake vent. There's a fixed size exhaust vent. More air can flow under pressure versus under vacuum. That's why exhaust systems are larger bore than intake - think HVAC ducting/engines etc.

The egg is a combustion chamber, and the engine is hot air rising into the exhaust vent, drawing air into the intake damper. The amount of air being drawn in, one would think, drives the amount to combustion, and consequently the heat generated. However, the engine can draw more air in that it burns. That unburnt oxygen is bypass air.

If you configure the coals to burn the maximum amount of air, thereby minimizing the bypass air, you can get the most heat, and highest temps. The compromise is flow restriction - the more coals you expose to the air flow, the higher amount of combustion, but the more restriction to the convection engine that drives the egg.

My point is, just by loading up as designed, the egg can reach much higher temperatures than you would ever want to cook with. By spreading the coals out, you'll have less bypass air, and a more efficient environment (the bypass air just wicks away heat). So an efficient, hot egg, you have very little restriction in the air flow, but as much air as possible passing through burning lump, and the top and bottom dampers set just enough to maintain the temp you want to achieve.

I read of reports of people saying they installed a high-que grate and they're burning more lump than before, etc. You're changing the dynamics and letting more bypass air through the egg, making it less efficient, the BTU content of the lump doesn't change if you change the dynamics of the bypass air.

Anyway, that's my theory.

Aviator · January 24

NOLA, my buddy, its 2:30 am and am just back from work. Done for the day and have a day off.

So, reading the above... read it again....!

Maybe, will read it again in the morning.

Jokes aside, I think you have or tried to sum it up rather well. As many have said before, its all about the jet stream. The ancient blacksmiths with their mud and coal lil furnace, with leather bellows could melt iron with just a fist full of coal. :) Imagine that. Efficient themo-dynamics !!! Get this BMW, I said this first.

One does not need the high que, and you have made your point. Now, Sam Ferrise may have a point in drilling the original grate to a bigger bore, to not allow restriction with ash build up. Easily accomplished and I am going to do a single blind (on single malt) study tomorrow. Sam, you with me? That might make it double blind. He He!

Fred19Flintstone · January 24

For me, the High Que grate is about ashes. Using the OEM grate, mine would clog on occasion which requires using a wiggle rod to clear the clogged grate and resume normal cooking. The High-Que grate eliminates that problem. So for me, it's more of a convenience thing. Also, when I set my Egg at a certain temp, I know it will be hovering at around the same temp hours later. No need to babysit with a wiggle rod near by. So it's also a consistency thing. I like the High Que grate. I hope I wasn't too obvious.

caliking · January 24

Nola- plausible theory. And you make a good point re: bypass air. Thanks.

Aviator- what are the criterion to join the study group? I can supervise the pouring and the imbibing while you guys do the drilling. There's a bottle of Oban 18 that's been feeling lonely in my liquor cabinet...

jfm0830 · January 24

My comments are specific to the Hi-Que grate versus the stock BGE grate. Since getting the Hi-Que grate I've had no problems with long warm-up times from a clogged grate like I used to with the stock grate. I am able to quickly achieve high temperatures and have no problem getting and maintaining 225 at the other end of the spectrum. I end up cleaning out the bottom chamber less than I had to with the stock grate. While I'm sure I do lose some more lump to the larger openings, it doesn't seem to be significant in my experience.

Some people think the price is too high. I certainly can't tell other people what to think. For me $29 was short money, particularly considering this device has made the biggest performance improvement on my Egg of anything I have bought for it. For me time is money. It takes less time to warm up, I spend less time cleaning it and those two items result in more time which can be spent doing other things. This includes earning more money so I can afford more great Eggessories like this. When I got my second Egg, as soon as I finished ordering it I placed an order for a second High-Que grate.

stlcharcoal · January 24

nolaegghead said:

You have a fixed size intake vent. There's a fixed size exhaust vent. More air can flow under pressure versus under vacuum. That's why exhaust systems are larger bore than intake - think HVAC ducting/engines etc.

My point is, just by loading up as designed, the egg can reach much higher temperatures than you would ever want to cook with. By spreading the coals out, you'll have less bypass air, and a more efficient environment (the bypass air just wicks away heat). So an efficient, hot egg, you have very little restriction in the air flow, but as much air as possible passing through burning lump, and the top and bottom dampers set just enough to maintain the temp you want to achieve.

I think you're correct about this, but that's *if* the lower cast iron grate is not clogged with ash or restricted. If you have a big flat chunk of charcoal sitting on that lower grate blocking most the holes, there will will be no combustion O2, nor bypass O2.

If you have the time and the right charcoal, you can build a fire from the bottom up that will allow all the air you need to pass through the lower grate holes. But for those of us that want to pour half a bag on top of the half burned charcoal from last night, then just shovel out the ashes, the factory cast iron on doesn't cut it. The ash gets so compacted on top of it, you can't even tell there are holes underneath it.

A High-Que or an expanded stainless steel grate gives you more flexibility (to be lazy) and not clean out the bottom of the firebox after every cook. It let's the ash fall through......any remaining that plugs up a portion of it, doesn't affect performance.

Ultimately, you are giving the lower draft door total control of the air intake vs. the possibility of the cast iron grate dampening (i.e. "the restrictor plate").

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