Adjustable Rig

michigan_jason · January 4

A great piece of advice to a future egghead would be to get the AR and not spend the money on the plate setter. I never use my plate setter anymore. Had I known about Tom and the CGS prior, I would not have bought half my eggcessories from the dealer. Live and learn I guess.

robnybbq · January 4

michigan_jason said:

A great piece of advice to a future egghead would be to get the AR and not spend the money on the plate setter. I never use my plate setter anymore. Had I known about Tom and the CGS prior, I would not have bought half my eggcessories from the dealer. Live and learn I guess.

INDEED! Anyone want to buy a platesetter?

SamFerrise · January 4

Hey Steve,

I know guys who cannot use a screw driver properly and they pay through the nose for everything they need fixed. I don't mind paying for products as long as they are reasonably priced. The Adjustable Rig is a good example. This is an item that is easily manufactured with common materials. The cost for a LBGE AR is $128.00. The people selling them are just plain greedy. If they charged $60-75 it would be a fair price and they would still make money. I will guarantee you that the profit on that item is almost $100.00. That kind of stuff just torques my bolts. The Egg itself is very pricey, but this is an item that cannot be easily duplicated in your garage. Refractory materials are somewhat expensive, but the casting process is simple. I am not complaining, just stating the obvious.

BillPinNC · January 4

Happy AR and spider owner, use it all the time. Wish I had purchased it before I bought the plat setter!

The Cen-Tex Smoker · January 4

SamFerrise said:

Hey Steve,

I know guys who cannot use a screw driver properly and they pay through the nose for everything they need fixed. I don't mind paying for products as long as they are reasonably priced. The Adjustable Rig is a good example. This is an item that is easily manufactured with common materials. The cost for a LBGE AR is $128.00. The people selling them are just plain greedy. If they charged $60-75 it would be a fair price and they would still make money. I will guarantee you that the profit on that item is almost $100.00. That kind of stuff just torques my bolts. The Egg itself is very pricey, but this is an item that cannot be easily duplicated in your garage. Refractory materials are somewhat expensive, but the casting process is simple. I am not complaining, just stating the obvious.

Then don't buy one. Total bush league BS to come on here and disparage someone for making a living. But then again, I guess I should consider the source.

billyray · January 4

I like Tom's stuff!!!!

Mama Roneck · January 4

"I am not complaining, just stating the obvious."

What's obvious to me is that there are plenty of people here and elsewhere that are willing to pay for the work Tom does in designing, sourcing high-quality materials, and fabricating his products. He complements that with superior service, which again, plenty of people are happy to pay a premium for (or at least, that's obvious to me, but I could be wrong).

Sam, an economist might say you derive more utility from doing things yourself (or asking your brother to do it), and that you value price over other facets of the transaction like design and service. Our great economy works on the principle that all of us make those trade-offs and decisions in all of our transactions. I assume that in stating your own "value proposition", you didn't intend to disparage Tom or other people on this forum who are happy to pay for CGS products. Is that correct?

double · January 4

It's on my wish list! Looking forward to working with Tom at some point.

The Cen-Tex Smoker · January 4

"you didn't intend to disparage Tom or other people on this forum who are happy to pay for CGS products. Is that correct?"

I believe that ship sailed when he claimed "the people selling them are just plain greedy"

Of course he meant to disparage. It's what he does.

Ragtop99 · January 4

Mama Roneck said:

Sam, an economist might say you derive more utility from doing things yourself (or asking your brother to do it), and that you value price over other facets of the transaction like design and service. Our great economy works on the principle that all of us make those trade-offs and decisions in all of our transactions. I assume that in stating your own "value proposition", you didn't intend to disparage Tom or other people on this forum who are happy to pay for CGS products. Is that correct?

Or they would suggest that if Tom were making abnormal profits, other vendors would enter the market and drive prices down. There are not a lot of barriers to entry here.

I don't have an AR, but my Woo2 is very nicely made and fits perfectly. Very clean welds. The stone that came in the combo was a nice heavy stone, nicer than what I see at discount kitchen supply places.

I certainly applaud those that can weld and make their own. There is a certain irony that this discussion was sparked by someone who complained about the price, yet apparently lacks the welding skills to do it himself.

Mighty_Quinn · January 4

The Cen-Tex Smoker said:

"you didn't intend to disparage Tom or other people on this forum who are happy to pay for CGS products. Is that correct?"

I believe that ship sailed when he claimed "the people selling them are just plain greedy"

Of course he meant to disparage. It's what he does.

your pizza sucks CT!! :))

SamFerrise · January 4

What are you smoking?

Hi54putty · January 4

Very clever Sam. When you put it that way I don't think you are an arrogant know-it-all anymore.

Thanks for clarifying.

SamFerrise · January 4

Ragtop99 said:

Mama Roneck said:

Sam, an economist might say you derive more utility from doing things yourself (or asking your brother to do it), and that you value price over other facets of the transaction like design and service. Our great economy works on the principle that all of us make those trade-offs and decisions in all of our transactions. I assume that in stating your own "value proposition", you didn't intend to disparage Tom or other people on this forum who are happy to pay for CGS products. Is that correct?

Or they would suggest that if Tom were making abnormal profits, other vendors would enter the market and drive prices down. There are not a lot of barriers to entry here.

I don't have an AR, but my Woo2 is very nicely made and fits perfectly. Very clean welds. The stone that came in the combo was a nice heavy stone, nicer than what I see at discount kitchen supply places.

I certainly applaud those that can weld and make their own. There is a certain irony that this discussion was sparked by someone who complained about the price, yet apparently lacks the welding skills to do it himself.

I don't lack the welding skills CT, I just don't have a welder. I learned to weld 42 years ago and just because I know how things are made and what they cost doesn't make me a bad guy. There are many capable people on the forum and I am just expressing an opinion. If that is disparaging then I am lost. Greed is killing our way of life in this country. Saying someone is greedy is not at all out of line. You can disagree without trashing my opinion, wait, maybe your opinion carries more weight. Maybe if people don't agree with you it upsets you. Sorry for stepping on your toes, it was not intentional. Sometimes my ego gets out front and I may offend somebody without realizing it, however, my resume is impressive as are my skills. I hope you are not too offended by this reply. If you are, I apologize in advance. Smoke a butt and relax.

Ragtop99 · January 4

Sam, you did not step on my toes. Whether you lack the tools or the skill, the project is not a DIY, and the irony of your comments is the same. Had your brother made the post, there would be no irony.

As for the economics, I do stand by that. Have some training there. ;)

Mama Roneck · January 5

Um, I guess I stand corrected.

“What is a cynic? A man who knows the price of everything and the value of nothing.”

Oscar Wilde

OziEgg · January 5

SamFerrise said:
Hey Steve,

I know guys who cannot use a screw driver properly and they pay through the nose for everything they need fixed. I don't mind paying for products as long as they are reasonably priced. The Adjustable Rig is a good example. This is an item that is easily manufactured with common materials. The cost for a LBGE AR is $128.00. The people selling them are just plain greedy. If they charged $60-75 it would be a fair price and they would still make money. I will guarantee you that the profit on that item is almost $100.00. That kind of stuff just torques my bolts. The Egg itself is very pricey, but this is an item that cannot be easily duplicated in your garage. Refractory materials are somewhat expensive, but the casting process is simple. I am not complaining, just stating the obvious.

I think that $128 is very reasonable for the enjoyment I will get - and I will be paying many times that for shipping.

James MB · January 5

Royal Coachman I have a woo ring for my Med here in the UK. I had an email dialogue with them over a spider for the med too. I wouldn't be without the ability to go raised direct. For me this is enough and cost effective despite shipping to the UK. price per utilised cook is probably in pennies after about four years! If I had a large I would like the Woo / Spider combo but would wonder about the additional possibilities (and complexities) of the AR - these products didn't happen by accident, they have been desired, designed and refined by enthusiasts! Talk to them, they are amazingly open and helpful. Wouldn't be without my (med) woo!

Ragtop99 · January 5

Mama Roneck said:

Um, I guess I stand corrected.

Not sure if that was directed to me or not, but the concept of utility in choices is valid and I did not mean to imply that was wrong. Just offering an alternative explanation that might apply when someone is suggesting that prices are sky high relative to the cost/risk.

The Cen-Tex Smoker · January 5

“What is a cynic? A man who knows the price of everything and the value of nothing.” Oscar Wilde......................................... perfectly said

BigWader · January 5

I just ordered the motherload today from Tom. (AR - B&R combo + spider + extender + sliding D grate). All paid & shipping to Canada (which was the part that stung for me).

Wife questioned the total spend and yes I could have achieved raised grate/multiple layer cooks with about 8 bricks and an aftermarket grill but I watched the you tube videos of the grates in action and cooking way more food than I could fit and I immediately felt the asking price was worth it.

I also pointed out to my wife that the entire CGS operation is in USA, with US workers which in my book counts for something too. Nice to get something while supporting more than a Walmart employees salary in the process.

Mama Roneck · January 5

"Not sure if that was directed to me or not..."

Sorry, that was directed elsewhere in the thread. I need to learn how to use this board! Your point is absolutely correct and I'm sure that Tom, better than anyone, is well aware of the market clearing price for his contraptions. And I'm also reasonably certain his pricing strategy does not involve undercutting DIYers. An occasional sale would be nice though ;-)

ccpoulin1 · January 5

This thread makes me laugh! I run a pretty sizeable car and truck dealership parts department. We keep the doors open by making a profit and taking care of our customers. If you have the inventory and knowledge, and try to not allow a customer to buy something they don't need, you will succeed every time. Price is not the #1 driver for most people, it is normally 3rd on the list of a customers purchasing decisions. I have seen customers drive 50 miles away for a $3.00 savings because price was their #1purchasing decision, never considering what their time and effort are worth (and fuel they had to use).

If you are in a position to rip off somebody elses design because you have nothing to do and want or need to save a few bucks, go ahead. For me, my time is more valuable than to mess with that kind of stuff. I prefer to spend my time here being amused, or learning about somebodies great cook, or at work making money!

Have a great day everybody!

tjv · January 5

SamFerrise said:

This is an item that is easily manufactured with common materials. The cost for a LBGE AR is $128.00. I will guarantee you that the profit on that item is almost $100.00.

Sam, please tell me what is backing this guarantee, cause I want to collect. As I said in an earlier post, you do not value your brother's time and energy when he made you the copycat spider.

Here is what you have in the $128 AR Combo you referred to:

Adj. Rig:
- 4 laser cut brackets from 3/16 stainless material. Remember, I have to buy the full sheet of stainless from the laser cutter, even though I don't get a full sheet in brackets. Need to leave space between brackets to minimize warping of the sheet when cutting. scrap stainless is approx. 25% of full retail when recycled.
- fabricate 1/4 stainless wire - 1 full ring w butt weld, 1 partial ring, 1 straight leg, 2 "U" shape crossbars.
- 28 Tig welds
- to make the Rig presentable, the rig is passivated to remove the free carbon on the welds. Passivating also improves weld durability. Then the welds are hand buffed with a rotary wheel to remove the heat stain.

Spider:
- fabricate 1/4 stainless wire - 1 full ring with butt weld. 3 or 5 hook legs
- Tig welding the legs to the ring requires 6 or 10 Tig welds, Tig top side, flip over to tig bottom side
- Again, like the Rig, the Spider is passivated and the welds cleaned to make it presentable.

Wire Grid:
- We call for EPQ, electro-polish quality stainless wire for a smoother wire surface. EPQ is much better than a mill or 2b finish for cleaning (brushing) the grid clean between cooks. EPQ cost more too.
- Roll the outer ring(s) with butt weld on 16.5 round grid
- Cut the crossbars, these need to run past the outer ring to have wire to weld.
- Resistance weld the crosswires
- Trim the crosswires back to the outer ring
- Buff the crosswires to minimize their sharp edges
- Electropolish the grid to it's shiny finish

Ok, now let's talk about shipping. Most wire fabricators do work with sheet goods, so the brackets are laser cut and shipped to the Rig fabricator. Once the Rig fabricator makes the Rigs, he ships them out to the passivator. When the passivator is done, he ships them back to the Rig fabricator. Rig Fabricator boxes them up and ships to me. Same with the Spider and grids - fabricator to finisher, finisher back to fabricator, boxed and shipped to me. Finishers do not ship final products to customers. It cost approximately 3 to 4 times more to ship a Rig than it does a Spider or grid. Rigs ship LTL Class 250. Same for Woos.

Now how about equipment: The equipment used is not your typical DIY class stuff. I can tell you from personal experience, wire tooling for a wire bender can be wire diameter specific and runs approx. $3000. Change or add a wire size, you just dropped 3 grand so you can run the wire on the wire bender. You won't find a reliable 3D wire bender for less than $100K. I know, I've looked.

Don't forget about having to stock and store all this stuff. Also, there are other costs like web site fees, utilities, getting and keeping all the stupid stuff ya think ya never need until ya need it. Oh, and to process a payment, the credit processing company takes 2 to 3% off the top of every order, including the shipping.

We take pride in supporting USA based manufacturers. Items fabricated for us are all Made in the USA. The typical accessories (woks, pans hand tools) that we buy wholesale are more than likely foreign made. Terri is particular on what boxes get the USA sticker; she is kinda proud that way.

So tell me Sam, what's your guarantee.

tom

travisstrick · January 5

Tom, you may have to explain all that to Sam but to the rest of us, you are a first class guy who sells very valuable stuff to us eggheads.

I'm sure I speak for most of us. Thanks for doing what you do.

SteveWPBFL · January 5

Touche'!!!!

RU Eggsperienced · January 5

I have two Lg Eggs and use them for almost everything...Generally I cook things on the top level, but do all sorts of stuff with it for indirect cooks... Get the oblong stone and you can put it on the bottom level then a drip pan then whatever you are cooking on the top..you can take the whole thing out of the egg without making a mess. Great for transferring cooks to platters or even taking ribs off for wrapping in foil (if you do that). Anyway I could go on for an hour.. just get it. you will not be disappointed!!

Griffin · January 5

I have no idea how to make the kinds of things Tom makes. I'm sure it would be possible to duplicate, but I couldn't do as good a job and my time is more important. No, I'd rather but a quality product from a quality guy. Thanks Tom for all you do. Keep up the good work.

Fred19Flintstone · January 6

@tjv - I'm a new CGS customer. About 8 weeks ago, I bought the small woo and 2 10" pizza stones. It's a pleasure cooking with them! For Christmas, Wilma gave me the credit card and I bought the large AR Oval Combo and spider. I love cooking with them, too! The quality of the metal work and the stones are top notch and worth what I paid!

I think any complaints (very few I'm sure) can be chalked up to the old saw "You can't please everyone all the time." If CGS sold solid gold rigs for $20, somebody would still complain. Don't worry about it Tom and keep doing what you're good at!

Mattman3969 · January 6

I am new to the forum. Can someone provide a link or # for CGS?

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“What is a cynic? A man who knows the price of everything and the value of nothing.”