Question about the ceramics?

amhobbs · December 2012

Hello all I am new on this site and will be getting a new egg soon. I have been planning everything out to get a new large egg a little after christmas and while researching everything I stumbled accross the kamado joes. My question is are the ceramics any worse in the egg or the joe as this is the only difference other than price I can find in these grills. I am not trying to down the egg by any means and I am still leaning toward getting it especially because of this site. There are things I like about both of these grills and I am still leaning toward the egg just curious if anyone knew if the ceramics were worse on one over the other. Thanks.

nolaegghead · December 2012

http://eggheadforum.com/discussion/1134804/bge-vs-kamado-joe

fishlessman · December 2012

they are both covered for life to the origional purchaser so the ceramics will be replaced with either. i would not worry about the ceramics, have no dealings with kamado joe support though a quick look actually shows more dealers in my area than egg dealers, this amazes me how fast they are growing as a few years ago there were none

BOWHUNR · December 2012

I own several eggs, but have also had the opportunity to cook on KJ's a couple of times. I found nothing wrong with them, in fact there were some things I liked more about them. What it came down to for me when I purchased my first was the fact that there is a long time, reputable BGE dealer in my area.

Mike

amhobbs · December 2012

Thank you all for all the comments I will do a little more research on it. I wasnt really worried about the ceramics breaking in the kj I was just wondering if the eggs ceramics were better or the same.

Thanks again.

Andy

nolaegghead · December 2012

From the BGE site

"Company engineers incorporated a new type of ceramics, developed by NASA for the space program, into the manufacturing process and worked tirelessly to find ways to improve the design and product, often in small, incremental steps. The result was a superior cooker that was stronger, more durable and provided better heat insulation than anything else on the market, a distinction the Big Green Egg holds today."

Eggcelsior · December 2012

nolaegghead said:

From the BGE site

"Company engineers incorporated a new type of ceramics, developed by NASA for the space program, into the manufacturing process and worked tirelessly to find ways to improve the design and product, often in small, incremental steps. The result was a superior cooker that was stronger, more durable and provided better heat insulation than anything else on the market, a distinction the Big Green Egg holds today."

Well, if it is good enough for those eggheads, it is good enough for me.

nolaegghead · December 2012

The big green egg is the only kamado cooker that will survive orbital reentry without disintegration. The handle, unfortunately, will not survive the heat.

Duganboy · December 2012

This is sorta like going into a Chevy dealership and asking the salesman, if he likes a Chevy or a Ford the best. :D

FanOfFanboys · December 2012

One thing of note in the post by Nola in the excerpt is how BGE works to find small ways to improve. I posted a thread just last week about it. I bought my egg in March. Last Sat I looked at new eggs to kill time and in just that short period of 8 months there were 4 small but noticeable and nice improvements. And for me that's a good thing; a company with largest market share selling a product with rabid fan base and very little room for improvement yet they do anyway. And no diff in cost from March to now. The one warranty issue I had, gasket, I had a new gasket for free at my house within a week of emailing BGE HQ. KJ may also be as good, I dunno. But I know how good BGE is.

amhobbs · December 2012

Just playing devils advocate but has bge not known about their gasket problem for years now and still have not fixed it? Also it seems like the improvements they are making were already standard on the kj. Thanks and again Im not trying to bash the egg I am just trying to make an informed decision since I will be spending so much money on it.

HDmstng · December 2012

competition is always good!

amhobbs said:

Just playing devils advocate but has bge not known about their gasket problem for years now and still have not fixed it? Also it seems like the improvements they are making were already standard on the kj. Thanks and again Im not trying to bash the egg I am just trying to make an informed decision since I will be spending so much money on it.

amhobbs · December 2012

Thanks for all the comments you all have been a great help

Eggcelsior · December 2012

amhobbs said:

Just playing devils advocate but has bge not known about their gasket problem for years now and still have not fixed it? Also it seems like the improvements they are making were already standard on the kj. Thanks and again Im not trying to bash the egg I am just trying to make an informed decision since I will be spending so much money on it.

BGE now ships the high-heat Nomex gasket as standard on new eggs. Started earlier this year.

I would presume that the reason features are "standard on the KJ" that are "improvements" on the egg relate to the fact that the KJ founders were BGE owners that were looking for ways to improve the egg and decided to start a new company. Good for them. They "improved" the egg by creating a higher dome, larger handle, nest and side-tables made out of more resilient materials(304 SS and bamboo). They also paint theirs red. You could also look at the Primo or Grill Dome for "high end Kamodo-style" cookers. They all have a similar $800-900 price point.

SWVABeanCounter · December 2012

You want to make sure you have a local dealer with a good reputation. That's what sold me on BGE. I've had a few minor problems that were handled immediately, no questions asked. And yes, mine has the new Nomex gasket on it.

Stargaze · December 2012

I read a review on Amazon I think where the guy said you had to approach the Kamado Joe with asbestos underwear due to the high external heat LOL

If getting an egg is going to break your bank, then get the Kamado. If you're just wanting to save cash, I'd stick with the egg....ultimately, it's the better product.

Skiddymarker · December 2012

The Kamado Joe, 2008-2009 first year model I think, is an excellent cooker. My neighbour moved in with one and I was able to use it for the three years he lived beside me. I have not seen any of the later models, but can only assume it has improved.

SS hardware, very well built, nice nest, cooked great. I did not notice it to be any hotter than my 2012 egg when under fire.

In early 2012, my neighbour moved, I lost my access to a smoker, so had to look at buying my own. The reason I bought an egg was I could not find a KJ dealer in the area, although there are lots of them now.

In Canada,a LBGE is about $1100, just for the egg, the equivalent KJ with nest side tables and setter is $1000.

amhobbs · December 2012

I received a response from kj and they said they tested the ceramics and this was the result

For our test, a KJ ClassicJoe and a BGE Large were heated to 400°F for

>2.5 hours using the same amount of charcoal under the same ambient

>temperature and humidity. Six identical external areas of each grill

>were read with an infrared laser thermometer. The result was a

>difference of 0°-7°F in each area. Essentially, both ceramic grills

>have the same thermal retention.

Other than the ceramics which are basically the same I think the kj has the egg beat again not bashing it.

Skiddymarker · December 2012

@amhobbs, the only other factors might be where you live and if you choose to buy American. It is my understanding the Primo's are made in the USA, BGEs are made in Mexico and USA, the KJ is made in China. To me, quality of the KJ is not a question (based on the 3-4 year old model) lots of great products come out of China, like Apple.

Regardless of the cooker, the set-ups are about the same. BGE like many "cult kool-aid drinking" products often demand a premium price based on name and reputation, not performance. I do not think you can go wrong with any of the choices available to you and I'm sure you will be welcomed by most of us here to share your experience.

FlashkaBob · December 2012

So then why don't you just go ahead and buy the KJ? It sounds like you have done your research and you have made the decision in your own mind. Look around the internet at comparison reports. Almost all other manufacturers compare themselves to the BGE. All the BBQ sites that discuss charcoal cooking talk about the BIG GREEN EGG. They rarely mention KJ or Primo or Grill Dome. Why do you suppose that is? Does that not tell you something about the reputation of the BIG GREEN EGG? Like they say, "Imitation is the highest form of flattery." Personally when I go out and spend my hard earned money, I am looking for best in class. I am not looking for a knock-off

nolaegghead · December 2012

@FlashkaBob - quoting skiddy here from earlier in this thread - this is why: "The reason I bought an egg was I could not find a KJ dealer in the area, although there are lots of them now. "

nolaegghead · December 2012

To be fair, the Kamados have been around for thousands of years. BGE didn't invent it, there's a good article on the history that I can't find.

"Japanese kamados were made by 2 families that made pottery, Kanuraki & Kacoa. Kamados were sold to the US military that were stationed in Japan in the 60's & 70's. Thousands were brought into the states. Many
servicemen made a side business of bringing kamados back for resale in
the states."

dlk7 · December 2012

amhobbs said:

I received a response from kj and they said they tested the ceramics and this was the result

For our test, a KJ ClassicJoe and a BGE Large were heated to 400°F for

>2.5 hours using the same amount of charcoal under the same ambient

>temperature and humidity. Six identical external areas of each grill

>were read with an infrared laser thermometer. The result was a

>difference of 0°-7°F in each area. Essentially, both ceramic grills

>have the same thermal retention.

Other than the ceramics which are basically the same I think the kj has the egg beat again not bashing it.

Interesting that the KJ ceramics are almost twice as thick but have the same thermal retention. Are the KJ ceramics more porous? The KJ big joe weighs 32 pounds more than the BGE XL. I'm guessing most of the extra weight is in the ceramics.

FlashkaBob · December 2012

I suppose if I was lookking for knock off products, I could go out and find a pair of LEVI STROWSE jeans as well. They just aren't the same as the LEVIS STRAUSS brand but someone will buy them.

nolaegghead · December 2012

If it's twice as thick and only weighs 15% more, it's probably much less dense. That's not necessarily related to porosity. A block of aluminum weights much less than a block of uranium, both being non-porous.

They make concrete with fly ash that's less dense, but they also make porous (air entrapped) concrete that's also less dense. You do want some porosity - but not too much (freezing water alert).

There. I just spewed a bunch of confusing science. I feel better already.

Eggcelsior · December 2012

amhobbs said:

I received a response from kj and they said they tested the ceramics and this was the result

For our test, a KJ ClassicJoe and a BGE Large were heated to 400°F for

>2.5 hours using the same amount of charcoal under the same ambient

>temperature and humidity. Six identical external areas of each grill

>were read with an infrared laser thermometer. The result was a

>difference of 0°-7°F in each area. Essentially, both ceramic grills

>have the same thermal retention.

Other than the ceramics which are basically the same I think the kj has the egg beat again not bashing it.

It seems that KJ has the better upfront value with the fact that it comes with accessories for around $100 less starting out. I would say that beyond that, the egg clearly has the KJ beat on the back-end with the larger dealer network, larger forum(official and unofficial), and higher market saturation so more aftermarket pieces available. This is of course due to the 30+ year existence of BGE vs. 3+ years of KJ.

I would think that the similar sizing will allow for interchanging of accessories and you will always be welcome on our forum. Ancedotally, I have seen many warranty claims easily satisfied by BGE so I think that all BGE owners can say that the mothership stands by their warranty. Time will tell with KJ, but I would expect that what they say is what will happen, since they are trying to compete in a growing market. Of course, market forces will dictate all of these things.

FlashkaBob · December 2012

Don't get me wrong. I am all for competition however when you copy a product right down to the dimples on the surface and just change the colour , they weren't at all into innovation but rather into stealing market share from the people that came up with the idea in the first place. That kind of crap bugs the hell out of me. I came up with an idea to raise funds for our barbershop group a few years ago. I sold advertising in our upcoming show program to the local merchants. After doing this for 2 years, someone else decided to use my idea for their community group. They couldn't come up with their own ideas? That ended that form of fundraising. The merchants did not want to support it any longer.

Browninggold · December 2012

Well my evil twin brothers head ways twice as much as my head and we both look alike and same size...I guess my noggin' is more porous. Come to think about it I don't retain too much either :)

amhobbs · December 2012

dlk7 said:

amhobbs said:

I received a response from kj and they said they tested the ceramics and this was the result

For our test, a KJ ClassicJoe and a BGE Large were heated to 400°F for

>2.5 hours using the same amount of charcoal under the same ambient

>temperature and humidity. Six identical external areas of each grill

>were read with an infrared laser thermometer. The result was a

>difference of 0°-7°F in each area. Essentially, both ceramic grills

>have the same thermal retention.

Other than the ceramics which are basically the same I think the kj has the egg beat again not bashing it.
Interesting that the KJ ceramics are almost twice as thick but have the same thermal retention. Are the KJ ceramics more porous? The KJ big joe weighs 32 pounds more than the BGE XL. I'm guessing most of the extra weight is in the ceramics.

The 32 extra pounds cam from them making it actuall dimensionsal unlike the egg who just made the cooking size larger the big joe is the same as the classic joe just bigger.

amhobbs · December 2012

FlashkaBob said:

Don't get me wrong. I am all for competition however when you copy a product right down to the dimples on the surface and just change the colour , they weren't at all into innovation but rather into stealing market share from the people that came up with the idea in the first place. That kind of crap bugs the hell out of me. I came up with an idea to raise funds for our barbershop group a few years ago. I sold advertising in our upcoming show program to the local merchants. After doing this for 2 years, someone else decided to use my idea for their community group. They couldn't come up with their own ideas? That ended that form of fundraising. The merchants did not want to support it any longer.

Hinged grate, Locking cap, Better gasket, More versatile heat deflector. These are the changes and they have plenty of innovation look at the pro joe.

nolaegghead · December 2012

I hate when people copy designs. http://www.google.com/patents?id=DnpzAAAAEBAJ&pg=PA1&source=gbs_selected_pages&cad=2#v=onepage&q&f=false

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