Quick food safety question

BuckeyeBob · November 2012

Was away from the Egg at my Mother in Law's on Friday and we planned on making pork tenderloin for dinner so put them Inthe marinade. Our plans changed and we ended up not eating it that night. However since it was already marinaded, we decided to cook to about Rare (approx. 120) on their Weber and then bring home after sitting in the fridge wrapped in foil. Plan was to reheat and finish cooking on the Egg but got to thinking about it and wanted to make sure we didn't make a mistake from a food safety perspective. Thanks in advance.

Fred19Flintstone · November 2012

Sounds like the definition of "leftovers" to me, but I'm no expert. Of course, I could be leading you awry as revenge after my Wolverines got beat.

cazzy · November 2012

I think you're good...but hopefully some pork experts chime in.

gdenby · November 2012

Generally not a good idea to cook part way. The food's natural resistance to contamination is wiped away, but the temperature is not great enough to kill contaminants. The standard food safety recommendation is that cooked food not be between 40F - 140F for more than 2 hours. If the meat only went to 120, it was not cooked. How fast was it chilled down?

You can reheat, but it may not be too good to eat. The re-heat will kill off anything, and destroy most, but not all toxins, if they are there. The nasties eat the same things that make the food taste good, so they might be cooked away, but some of the flavor is gone.

It always grieves me to pitch something, but "if in doubt, pitch it out" is really good advice.

The Cen-Tex Smoker · November 2012

You are good. 100% safe.

The Cen-Tex Smoker · November 2012

Did not mean to hit the disagree button....Even though I don't agree :).

The Cen-Tex Smoker · November 2012

When we got our food safety certification for our restaurant, we were taught that for commercial food standards the acceptable time out of the safe zone was 4 hours. Commercial standards are much more strict than home use standards because there are so many more avenues for contamination at a restaurant. So assuming 4 hours is the number, it would then take many more hours for contaminates to grow and spread toxins in any meaningful amount. Assuming you cooled your food down and your drive was not like 12 hours or something with the meat on the seat of the car, you are totally fine to eat it. i would without hesitation.

BuckeyeBob · November 2012

Thanks everyone. Meat was wrapped in foil and then cooled for about 30 minutes then placed in the cooler. Drive was 5 hours. Feel like I am probably okay here. And Fred, my Buckeyes kept giving you chances to take the game away from us. Fun game though. I got to go with my 15 year old. Great day!

harrisbuck · November 2012

Call me crazy but I would not risk it. If you're not sure, get rid of it.

On the flip side, Go Bucks!!!!

MJQ8 · November 2012

I agree with harrisbuck. If in doubt, throw it out. At the end of the day, throwing away food and food sickness both leave you with the same feeling. The cost of a trip to the ER however is far MORE EXPENSIVE than the cost of any meat.

The Cen-Tex Smoker · November 2012

Not trying to stir the pot here but suggesting anybody is going to the ER from a few bites of pork loin that was left out of the fridge for a few hours is just not at all accurate. It just spreads fear and misinformation when all the information on what is safe and what is not is readily available for anyone to read. You are correct that everyone should be comfortable with what they eat and if you don't know, you should throw it out. But it's easy to know with a few minutes of time invested.

Food does not turn toxic in a matter of hours.And when it goes bad....it smells horrible unless it is botulism which is odorless and deadly but has to have an oxygen free environment (canned, cryo vac'd etc) to flourish. Normal food does not kill people or send people to the hospital unless it is rancid. Don't eat rancid food.

PSHome · November 2012

Agree with C-T. Use the old sniffer to test the pork. And don't worry about eating something that is a little questionable...we
all need our systems cleaned out occasionally.

MJQ8 · November 2012

Cen-Tex, love ya brother as you are respected and known to dish out great advice but this is one area I disagree..not saying you are wrong but I just disagree .I never rolled the dice in my restaurant nor home for many reasons. Call me scared or weak or whatever but to me it's just not worth the risk or inconvienence. Too much at stake. (man...did I really just say that? my bad!)

nolaegghead · November 2012

Food cooked under 131F needs to be quickly refrigerated or served under 4 hours, in general. Cen-Tex knows his stuff.

Sous vide is a good study on food safety, since the temperatures and times are so well controlled. This is the "industry" standard guide: http://www.douglasbaldwin.com/sous-vide.html#Safety

The Cen-Tex Smoker · November 2012

MJQ8 said:

Cen-Tex, love ya brother as you are respected and known to dish out great advice but this is one area I disagree..not saying you are wrong but I just disagree .I never rolled the dice in my restaurant nor home for many reasons. Call me scared or weak or whatever but to me it's just not worth the risk or inconvienence. Too much at stake. (man...did I really just say that? my bad!)

no worries. It's totally OK to handle food in any way you are comfortable. And totally OK to disagree with anyone on things you feel strongly about. My point was really to tell people to spend a few minutes and really know what is good and bad. You are very much on the super safe side of the spectrum and that's OK. it's not backed up by any of the science but it's cool to put that flag in the sand and say "I'm taking no risk". I don't see what I do as taking any risk either but I have a very good idea of whats safe and what's not. I guess I was trying to point out that even though that's OK for you, it's not accurate to suggest to others that it is not safe to eat food that is totally safe. It spreads fear and misinformation to suggest you might go to the ER over a few bites of pork that's been out a few hours.

Good example: There are hundreds of cases of people on here whose fires have gone out overnight and had no idea how long the meat was out of the safe zone. Some people throw them out but the majority fire them up and cook them. Not one single case of one person saying they got sick. Out of hundreds, not a single post that I know of where anyone got sick.Now I would guess that you would throw yours out, which is fine, but the science does not support throwing it out. I know it's safe and I would eat it without hesitation. I've done it dozens of times when I was learning to keep my fires lit all night. Never a problem. I would never have served that commercially but I don't subscribe to the notion that food is deadly at 4 hrs and 1 minute out of the safe zone.

Also keep in mind that the guidelines are set keeping children, elderly, and sick people in mind.They are also set for commercial kitchens which have way more risk for contamination than your home kitchen (assuming you practice safe food handling procedures and have a clean kitchen).

It's like how the speed limit on a curvy road is the same for an 18 wheeler and a Ferrari. It's like the guy in the Ferrari saying it's unsafe for him to go any faster than a 200,000 lb big rig on the same road when that is obviously not accurate. You can't have one speed limit for every type of car so you set it to where everyone is safe. Same with food safety. They have to set it where everyone is safe and that is simply overkill for most healthy people.

The guidelines are great and very helpful, but they are just guidelines. I would eat a pork loin left out overnight if I knew I was going to cook it properly and it didn't show any signs of going rancid. My home kitchen is way cleaner than any commercial kitchen and I don't have 15 people handling everything. I'm much more liberal with my stuff at home than I ever was at the restaurant. I've never gotten food poisoning at home or my restaurant. I have gotten it out at other restaurants but never at home. That's because I know for a fact what's safe and what's not and i don't throw things out because it's been out 5 minutes past some arbitrary deadline.....unless it smells (and then I let it air out a little just to make sure) :))

Good chat- keep it coming.

Skiddymarker · November 2012

The Cen-Tex Smoker said:

Not trying to stir the pot here but suggesting anybody is going to the ER from a few bites of pork loin that was left out of the fridge for a few hours is just not at all accurate. It just spreads fear and misinformation when all the information on what is safe and what is not is readily available for anyone to read. You are correct that everyone should be comfortable with what they eat and if you don't know, you should throw it out. But it's easy to know with a few minutes of time invested.

Food does not turn toxic in a matter of hours.And when it goes bad....it smells horrible unless it is botulism which is odorless and deadly but has to have an oxygen free environment (canned, cryo vac'd etc) to flourish. Normal food does not kill people or send people to the hospital unless it is rancid. Don't eat rancid food.

This says it all, very well. I was astounded to learn the number of people who did not realize you can use a marinade if it is boiled for 5 to 10 minutes. It is fine to be cautious, but as CenTex says be informed.

gerhardk · November 2012

I agree it is a recipe for food poisoning. Bringing the meat through the most dangerous temperatures for bacterial growth twice without reaching a temperature that kills the bacteria is just a bad idea. The bacteria won't make you sick but you will have given them the ideal environment to produce toxins which do make you sick. The marinade may be o.k. because hopefully it was always kept at a temperature of 40º F or less keeping the bacteria in check.

Gerhard

Skiddymarker · November 2012

gerhardk said:

I agree it is a recipe for food poisoning. Bringing the meat through the most dangerous temperatures for bacterial growth twice without reaching a temperature that kills the bacteria is just a bad idea. The bacteria won't make you sick but you will have given them the ideal environment to produce toxins which do make you sick. The marinade may be o.k. because hopefully it was always kept at a temperature of 40º F or less keeping the bacteria in check.

Gerhard

Yes. The fridge is <40F.

MJQ8 · November 2012

Cen-Tex,

Thanks for sharing your point of view and examples. Being only two months into the BGE game, my experience is limited. Definitly some points to reconsider here. When I do begin to attempt these overnight cooks, I will certainly keep these points in mind. In fact, I have saved this discussion in a folder on my desktop for future reference. I also plan to contact you to learn how to keep my fire from going out;)

The Cen-Tex Smoker · November 2012

MJQ8 said:

Cen-Tex,
Thanks for sharing your point of view and examples. Being only two months into the BGE game, my experience is limited. Definitly some points to reconsider here. When I do begin to attempt these overnight cooks, I will certainly keep these points in mind. In fact, I have saved this discussion in a folder on my desktop for future reference. I also plan to contact you to learn how to keep my fire from going out;)

I'm all in. Please don't take what I say at face value. dig in and make sure it's right for you.

MJQ8 · November 2012

10-4-MJQ8

hondabbq · November 2012

Have any of you that are in favor of throwing it out ever been to a large banquet that served chicken beef or pork for the main entree?

If yes, then how do you think the chef seared all the proteins at the last minute serving 200+ people? I have served hundreds of banquets that require searing of meats prior to serving. It is the only way to do it. Sear off the meats and return to the fridge. It has been done the day before the function and the day of (depending of time constraints) without fail.

Meat doesnt rot from the inside out. It spoils on the outside first. If you sear meat your bacteria is killed. The only exception to this is ground meat, where the bacteria from the plant is mixed all in the ground product and it is contaminated on all fronts.

You are fine to reheat and eat it.

gerhardk · November 2012

hondabbq said:

Have any of you that are in favor of throwing it out ever been to a large banquet that served chicken beef or pork for the main entree?

If yes, then how do you think the chef seared all the proteins at the last minute serving 200+ people? I have served hundreds of banquets that require searing of meats prior to serving. It is the only way to do it. Sear off the meats and return to the fridge. It has been done the day before the function and the day of (depending of time constraints) without fail.
Meat doesnt rot from the inside out. It spoils on the outside first. If you sear meat your bacteria is killed. The only exception to this is ground meat, where the bacteria from the plant is mixed all in the ground product and it is contaminated on all fronts.

You are fine to reheat and eat it.

Don't believe he seared anything, just a nice slow rise to 120º followed by a drop to 40º or so and then back up to 140º the next day, for $10 I would toss it. Also would not be so sure about meat rotting only from the outside in, we live in the days of mechanically tenderized meat and separate pieces of meat glued to form one piece of meat. What once was true for bacteria being generally on the surface of the meat no longer holds true. One of the reasons I pay a little more and buy from a butcher I trust.

Gerhard

td66snrf · November 2012

Cen-Tex you the man!

BuckeyeBob · November 2012

Funny, with all e wonderful cooks I post, this one got by far the most comments. I decided ultimately to toss it. Thanks again for all the discussion.

BuckheadEgghead · November 2012

The Cen-Tex Smoker · December 2012

BuckeyeBob said:

Funny, with all e wonderful cooks I post, this one got by far the most comments. I decided ultimately to toss it. Thanks again for all the discussion.

Ha! This one always gets everyone fired up. It comes up all the time. It's really not worth it to risk getting sick if you aren't sure but I like to stir the pot with the germaphobes. I'll probably die face down in a gutter from Mexican street tacos but I'm sticking to my guns. I like to think of the germaphobes like howard hughes or michael jackson sleeping in hyperbaric chambers with super long fingernails but they are probably all very nice and normal people. Actually my 13 year old is a total germaphobe so I love them dearly :))

troutgeek · December 2012

Bourbon!

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