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Did my first brisket last night... I need help

TTBannonTTBannon Posts: 14
edited August 2012 in EggHead Forum

Few observations...

1. Not near the bark I wanted. I think I pulled it too soon at 175 and rested for 3 hours. I crutched it in beer/worsch sauce mixture and it really made it too juicy on the outside.

2. Good smoke ring, but not good enough. I need thicker smoke, but when I was smoking at 225 for hours, the viewable smoke was not there. I know there is clear smoke and that is the majority of the impact, but when I was at 260-270 the smoke was billowing.

3. My rub- i used the same rub I do for pork and I really think the overwhelming flavor from the rub dominated the meat flavor. I want a meat flavor plain and simple.

I need help

Your cooking time and temp?

Do you crutch?

What simple rub do you use to achieve great bark?

Which wood chips do you prefer for brisket?

imageimage

Comments

  • travisstricktravisstrick Posts: 4,568
    A few things:

    Cook at a higher temp. Maybe 300 dome.

    Tenderness is the true test but I wouldn't pull until 190-205 internal temp.

    The smoke ring is formed during the first part of your cook. I think it stops when the meat reaches 140. Regardless, if you put the meat in right our of the fridge, you should have better results.

    I like mesquite or hickory for brisket.
    Be careful, man! I've got a beverage here.
  • SMITTYtheSMOKERSMITTYtheSMOKER Posts: 2,085
    edited August 2012

    Go hotter, say 270/285 for good measure.

    Switch to Dizzy Pig "Raising the Steaks" rub, creates a nice black bark.

    Foil after 4 hours, pull off Egg when you get around 200 internal and tender.

    We use Oak lump with 2 chunks of hickory in the cooker.

    Never been a fan of burnt drippings in the pan below, we cook with moisture in the pan throughout the cook.  Try beef broth and water.

     

    -SMITTY     

    from SANTA CLARA, CA

  • TTBannonTTBannon Posts: 14

    I like the beef broth idea.

    Do you guys inject?

    Also, when you wrap in foil, do you put liquid in the foil?

  • travisstricktravisstrick Posts: 4,568
    No foil unless you want to keep the bark from getting darker. No injecting for me. Hopefully one of these guys will post a link to my attempt at brisket instruction. Im on a iPhone right meow.

    If you wait until this weekend, I'm doing another brisket with full post write up. Lots of pics.
    Be careful, man! I've got a beverage here.
  • Hillbilly-HightechHillbilly-Hightech Posts: 966
    edited August 2012
    Here's some things I've learned in my "Egg-sperience":

    1.)  I believe "bark" comes from a combination of the chemical reactions of the proteins in the meat w/ the cooking process, and the smoke (although, I think you can get a type of bark from cooking the meat in your oven as well, though not nearly as good).  It also results from the caramelizing of the sugars in the rub/sauce, etc.  Something which has a lot of sugar in it will help develop a more pronounced bark than something with no sugar in it.  It's basically the starting process of "burning" the meat (there's a fine line between a good bark & overly cooked, dried out, scorched meat). 

    With that being said, I'm not a fan of foiling, as this defeats the purpose of trying to create the bark.  Foiling will "re-moisturize" the meat (i.e., basically "steaming" it) and will soften the bark.  If you must foil, do it after several hours into the cook.  That way the rub, smoke, etc have had time to "set up" and do its thing, which is to create the chemical reactions, and to caramelize the sugars. 

    2.)  The smoke "ring" has been deliberated & debated as not really adding any "flavor" and just being a cosmetic thing, because it's been said that smoke doesn't penetrate the meat, it just gets applied to the surface. 

    I'm not gonna debate whether the smoke ring is or is not anything more than a cosmetic "bragging rights" type of thing, but if you want a more pronounced or "thicker" smoke ring, you need to keep the internal temp of the meat to less than 140 for as long as you can.  Probably the best way to do this is to keep the meat in the fridge till you're ready to put it on the Egg, then to keep the dome temp of the Egg to a "low & slow" temp (~250-300). 

    You also need "smoke" and the only way to get that is to add things that smoke (ie, chips or chunks).  Add in your chips or chunks all mixed in throughout your lump (up & down, side to side, etc).  Don't put them all at the top or all in one grouping.  That way you maximize the chances of the pieces of burning lump contacting the wood. 

    So, between the temp, the rub, and the smoke, that way, the meat starts out colder, and gets to 140 a lot longer than cooking it at a higher dome temp, and more smoke gets applied for a longer time. 

    3.)  Rubs & such are sooooo subjective - that's like asking someone's opinion as to whether they like Rembrandt or Picasso & basing your artistic tastes on what someone else likes.  With that being said, for a brisket, find a rub made specifically for beef (as opposed to pork), & just try it, then adjust & experiment till you find one that you like. 

    HTH,
    Rob
    Don't get set into one form, adapt it and build your own, and let it grow, be like water. Empty your mind, be formless, shapeless — like water. Now you put water in a cup, it becomes the cup... Now water can flow or it can crash. Be water, my friend. - Bruce Lee
  • boatbumboatbum Posts: 1,273

    I think the biggest issue is the temp you pulled - 175.   Real key is the toothpick test.   You can really tell when its done - sometimes the difference between 190 and 195 is very noticable.

    For me, I keep the temp lower - I think a brisket wants to cook at 250 or lower.   A pork butt can go higher with no probs.   The only time I foil is if I need to speed up a cook that is running late.   And when I do, I know I am compromising the bark.

    Once I put the meat on, I do not open the lid until the internal meat temp ( on the maverick probe ) is 195 - then I open up and start probing with a thermopen.  When that probe is sliding in easily - and I have a consistent 195 + temp throughout the piece - its done.  Sometimes thats when I open - most often I cook a few minutes longer.  Might be 200+ plus by the time its tender.   You can really tell once it is done.

    Travis has a good point about the smoke ring - its formed early - and putting on right out of the fridge will help.

    I have quit using a water pan underneath - felt the steam and higher humidity hurt the bark.   I put a foil pan ( empty ) - sitting on a few 3/8 inch nuts - to catch the drippings and keep the platesetter relatively clean.

     

    Cookin in Texas
  • OK, I am pretty sure from a brisket "purest" standpoint, this method would be quite taboo, BUT, being only my second brisket (first was quickly turned into chili), I saw a dramatic improvement.   I followed Myron Mixon's method (almost):   

    I rubbed with coffee/brown sugar rub i got of Steven Raichlen's website and let rest overnight.   I then injected with Myron's beef injection - mostly beef broth and water.  

    Then into an aluminium pan indirect at 350 degrees (yes 350) for 3.5 hours uncovered, then 1.5 hours covered with foil.    Take it off and rest wrapped in a blanket for 3 hours.  That was it.   The texture and bark were tremendous.   I think the injection and rub combo was a bit too salty, which I will work on.   But overall - for a relatively fast brisket with great bark and nice smoke ring, I was pretty happy as was the family. 

    I used hickory and the brisket was a 7.2# Costco special.  

    Jeff

     

  • njlnjl Posts: 780
    Give this method a try.  I think it was by far, the best attempt at brisket I've done in the egg.

    http://eggheadforum.com/discussion/comment/1214752/#Comment_1214752

  • DuganboyDuganboy Posts: 1,118
    Here's some things I've learned in my "Egg-sperience":

    1.)  I believe "bark" comes from a combination of the chemical reactions of the proteins in the meat w/ the cooking process, and the smoke (although, I think you can get a type of bark from cooking the meat in your oven as well, though not nearly as good).  It also results from the caramelizing of the sugars in the rub/sauce, etc.  Something which has a lot of sugar in it will help develop a more pronounced bark than something with no sugar in it.  It's basically the starting process of "burning" the meat (there's a fine line between a good bark & overly cooked, dried out, scorched meat). 

    With that being said, I'm not a fan of foiling, as this defeats the purpose of trying to create the bark.  Foiling will "re-moisturize" the meat (i.e., basically "steaming" it) and will soften the bark.  If you must foil, do it after several hours into the cook.  That way the rub, smoke, etc have had time to "set up" and do its thing, which is to create the chemical reactions, and to caramelize the sugars. 

    2.)  The smoke "ring" has been deliberated & debated as not really adding any "flavor" and just being a cosmetic thing, because it's been said that smoke doesn't penetrate the meat, it just gets applied to the surface. 

    I'm not gonna debate whether the smoke ring is or is not anything more than a cosmetic "bragging rights" type of thing, but if you want a more pronounced or "thicker" smoke ring, you need to keep the internal temp of the meat to less than 140 for as long as you can.  Probably the best way to do this is to keep the meat in the fridge till you're ready to put it on the Egg, then to keep the dome temp of the Egg to a "low & slow" temp (~250-300). 

    You also need "smoke" and the only way to get that is to add things that smoke (ie, chips or chunks).  Add in your chips or chunks all mixed in throughout your lump (up & down, side to side, etc).  Don't put them all at the top or all in one grouping.  That way you maximize the chances of the pieces of burning lump contacting the wood. 

    So, between the temp, the rub, and the smoke, that way, the meat starts out colder, and gets to 140 a lot longer than cooking it at a higher dome temp, and more smoke gets applied for a longer time. 

    3.)  Rubs & such are sooooo subjective - that's like asking someone's opinion as to whether they like Rembrandt or Picasso & basing your artistic tastes on what someone else likes.  With that being said, for a brisket, find a rub made specifically for beef (as opposed to pork), & just try it, then adjust & experiment till you find one that you like. 

    HTH,
    Rob
    Is stike back?
  • You are getting some great tips here, and having only egged 1 myself will let others give suggestions.  But yes, temp was too low to pull off the egg.  From what others have told me, make notes of what you liked that you did and what you want to change.  But, don;t be afraid to try again!! Brisket is hard to master and most likely will never perfect,  I am looking at another brisket my try #2 in a few weeks!  
  • TjcoleyTjcoley Posts: 3,174

    Duganboy said:
    Is stike back?
    Comment started with 'I believe' - that doesn't sound like Stike.  He'd be sure.
    __________________________________________
    It's not a science, it's an art. And it's flawed.
    - Camp Hill, PA
  • TjcoleyTjcoley Posts: 3,174

    Duganboy said:
    Is stike back?
    Comment started with 'I believe' - that doesn't sound like Stike.  He'd be sure.
    __________________________________________
    It's not a science, it's an art. And it's flawed.
    - Camp Hill, PA
  • Hillbilly-HightechHillbilly-Hightech Posts: 966
    edited August 2012
    Tjcoley said:

    Duganboy said:
    Is stike back?
    Comment started with 'I believe' - that doesn't sound like Stike.  He'd be sure.
    hahahahaha... that's true.  Correct, I said "I believe" because I didn't wanna spend the time & effort to research & verify every single minute point such as whether or not it was actually the "proteins" or something else which caused the bark.  I figured the "spirit" of the questions the OP asked were not necessary to get all technical & factually correct down to the last detail.  

    As far as "sounding" like Stike - he's an architect, I'm an engineer - so we both can be very wordy & detail-oriented at times.  I think the difference w/ me though is that I was born & bred a simple country-boy, so that comes out a lot in my posts as well...

    Although, my GF often gets frustrated when I'm trying to 'splain something & will say things like "don't need the details, just need the answer" ;)  
    Don't get set into one form, adapt it and build your own, and let it grow, be like water. Empty your mind, be formless, shapeless — like water. Now you put water in a cup, it becomes the cup... Now water can flow or it can crash. Be water, my friend. - Bruce Lee
  • TTBannonTTBannon Posts: 14
    Thanks very much. Keep the tips coming.

    Would love to hear some brisket rubs from you all.
  • TTBannonTTBannon Posts: 14
    Thanks very much. Keep the tips coming.

    Would love to hear some brisket rubs from you all.
  • No foil unless you want to keep the bark from getting darker. No injecting for me. Hopefully one of these guys will post a link to my attempt at brisket instruction. Im on a iPhone right meow. If you wait until this weekend, I'm doing another brisket with full post write up. Lots of pics.
    "Right meow"? Sounds like the bet from Super Troopers. Gotta love auto complete on iPhone. I'm going to follow your brisket method that is sort of a braise this weekend while watching the first weekend of college football.

    _________________________________________________________________________________________

    Johnson, Navin R... Sounds like a typical bastard.

     

    Belmont, NC

  • DuganboyDuganboy Posts: 1,118
    Tjcoley said:

    Duganboy said:
    Is stike back?
    Comment started with 'I believe' - that doesn't sound like Stike.  He'd be sure.
    hahahahaha... that's true.  Correct, I said "I believe" because I didn't wanna spend the time & effort to research & verify every single minute point such as whether or not it was actually the "proteins" or something else which caused the bark.  I figured the "spirit" of the questions the OP asked were not necessary to get all technical & factually correct down to the last detail.  

    As far as "sounding" like Stike - he's an architect, I'm an engineer - so we both can be very wordy & detail-oriented at times.  I think the difference w/ me though is that I was born & bred a simple country-boy, so that comes out a lot in my posts as well...

     Although, my GF often gets frustrated when I'm trying to 'splain something & will say things like "don't need the details, just need the answer" ;)  
    Great response by your girlfriend.  I quit reading the long, long posts as soon as I get my answer.  I just want to drive the car, I don't care how the piston works!!! B-)
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