Ping..........Rumrunner ( butts revisited )

Chef Wil · June 2005

about the thread we had earlier about pork butts and safety issues,
its not a matter of being right or wrong in this case. Its a matter of safe food handling. Give us your take on this issue. Anyone can go through all sorts of sanitary and safe food classes, but until you wear the apron and do it for years, you have lots to learn. Your advice above and beyond mine or anyone else's would be greatly appreciated.

Bobby-Q · June 2005

Chef Wil,
I've taken the classes and I've worn the apron for many years (although not currently wearing it).[p]I have to agree with everything that you said. It amazes me sometimes that some folks will risk their friends and loved ones lives (possibly small risk, but risk that can be avoided) to save a few bucks.[p]All we can do for some people is share what we learned in classes, practiced for years and leave them to their own conclusions and decisions.[p]I know I slept fine at night by following what I knew.

Chef Wil · June 2005

Bobby-Q,
its like I said, ite neither a right or wrong issue, its an issue we all need to be reminded of at times. Thanks for your confirmation. Happt Fathers Day to ya, NO....... don't ask, you know I am pulling a 12 hr. day........hehehe

Rumrunner · June 2005

Chef Wil, I was basically agreeing with your quote from below, "...your butt may be real good and look really nice.
Yes, I could be wrong, but I could be right.
Have any young kids or people with low immune systems eating? Was it worth the savings of $25? Ask yourself the question if your unlucky butt proved I was right. I never feel good about bacteria and toxins when I am in the grey area...."[p]I've held the Florida Food Management Certificate for several years and have been involved in meat and food handling for close to 40 years. Have I ever made myself sick? No. Have I ever made any one else sick? Not to my knowledge. Have I ever had a food related sickness from other people's food handling? YES, several times, the last being prior to St.Patrick's Day at a local Hops restaurant. It was not a fun three days.[p]That being said, I like to err on the side of caution and safety, no matter how mundane the issue. A lot of good points were brought up in that thread and here are a few more that were not, unless I missed them........[p]1) Any harmful bacteria present in the raw meat juices could contaminate safely cooked food. Most people do not think about those juices.....I'm referring to partially cooked pork and chicken here (I still eat 'rare' steak and burger, as long as "I" cook it), those juices are plain nasty. [p]2) Partial cooking of food ahead of time allows bacteria to survive and multiply to the point that subsequent cooking cannot destroy them. Not sure if this was in the topic post or not, but may have been in another thread pertaining to a butt that had been cooking all nite, fire went out and would it be safe to try and cook it again. Thought and judgement needed here. [p]3)And, to beat the dead horse again and again....Bacteria multiplies rapidly between 40°F and 140°F. Keep food out of this "danger zone". [p]4) There are different types of bacteria and toxins that are present ON the surface of the meat and INTERNAL. I just prefer to be "safe".[p]While on the subject of "Safe".....lots of people don't even handle food safely BEFORE it's cooked.[p]A basic refresher on sanitation is a must if you are going to be cutting meat and poultry at home…..well, any where for that matter.[p]#1 Wash your hands, and equipment, FREQUENTLY with hot water and soap. Dry your hands with a paper towel.[p]I also like to use a instant hand sanitizer, such as Purell, before and after coming in contact with meat, poultry and vegetables. You don’t need a lot…probably a squirt in one hand about the size of a dime and rub in until your hands are dry….approximately 15-20 seconds. In as little as 15 seconds it will kill 99.99% of most common germs that can cause illness.[p]The use of latex gloves is also useful in the handling of meat, especially if you are prepping with any vegetable oil or other messy substances. Make sure to buy the gloves with NO powder. These can be purchased in quantity at a reasonable price at most membership box stores and restaurant supply houses.[p]#2 The next area of concern is CROSS CONTAMINATION in your food prep area. Proper cleaning procedures and common sense prevail here and will prevent you, your family and your guests from any unpleasant food bacteria related illnesses. I can’t stress this enough. [p]I suggest using a different cutting board, preferably made of a plastic type or Teflon material, for your three main categories of food prep. One for meats, one for poultry and one for cutting fresh vegetables. These are inexpensive and can be bought cheaply in most discount/department stores. Some people buy them color coded….red for meat, yellow for poultry and green for produce. Or, you can just label them. Make sure they are NSF approved. What ever you do, clean them properly after each use and you should not have any problems. [p]Wash in hot soapy water, making sure to loosen any meat particles stuck to the surface with a brush, and rinse in hot water. Now, make a sanitizing solution of bleach and COLD water. Hot water will kill the sanitizing benefits of bleach. I recommend using a ration of one ounce bleach per one gallon of water. Or, ½ oz per ½ gal water, etc. Rinse the board thoroughly and let air dry. Before each use, I suggest dipping a paper towel in a fresh solution of the bleach/water mix and wiping the cutting board to make sure to kill any airborne germs that may have accrued during storage. [p]Follow the same above procedure with any other equipment, or surfaces, that came in contact with the meat. Wipe your knives dry as soon as sanitizing, bleach may stain or rust certain steels.[p]Ok, I'll digress now, time to go BACK to bed [p][p][p]

Unknown · June 2005

Rumrunner,[p]Thanks for a very informative post! On cutting boards I keep hearing conflicting infrmation. Could you explain why you do not recommend wood? Also... I use spray bottles of pre-mixed Clorox "Clean-Up" to spray on preparation surfaces and cutting boards. Is that sufficient?

Rumrunner · June 2005

BR, wood is a very porous material and will harbor dangerous bacteria. Some wood cutting boards, usually the more expensive ones, are easier to clean and maintain. You cannot use any thing 'made' out of wood in approved and inspected food prep establishments. Years ago, I thought my wooden block was clean....a supervisor came in a took a 'swab test'.......WOW, that opened my eyes! I haven't used a wooden block or cutting board since Just my personal preference here. The 'teflon/plastic' cutting boards are such so much easier to clean, AND they are non-porous.[p]
As far as your Clorox "Clean Up"......I could not find any where on the label that said you could use it on "Food Preparation" surfaces. If it were me, I would rinse WELL with HOT, HOT water after using it to make sure I got all the residue off.........
Here are the uses
http://store.darisimall.com/628172.html

Unknown · June 2005

Rumrunner,[p]Below is what I found on the link you provided:[p]Removes stains and disinfects! Removes tough stains, grease and dirt.
Kills 99.9% of bacteria - Eschericia coli 0157:H7, Salmonella choleraesuis, Staphylococcus aureus, Streptococcus Pyogenes - in 30 seconds.
Deodorizes and has a clean, fresh scent.
Use throughout kitchen and bathroom.
Where to Use: Clorox Clean-Up Cleaner with Bleach spray disinfects, removes stains and cleans hard, nonporous surfaces such as sinks, counters, refrigerators, appliances, fiberglass and tubs. Prolonged contact with metal, old porcelain or worn plastic laminate may cause discoloration. Contains no phosphorus.

Clay Q · June 2005

Chef Wil,
Thank you and thanks to our friend Rumrunner. This forum is great. About 6 months ago I started using the bleach solution in a spray bottle for my prep and clean up. I am also using disposable cutting board sheets when handling meats. Since learning about the 40-140 degrees danger zone, I have been mindful about that.
Without your information shared on this forum- I would NOT be handling and cooking my food in a safe manner. [p]Just wanted to let you know that appreciate your guidance and help. Thanks and happy Fathers Day.
Clay

QBabe · June 2005

BR,[p]I think the operative phrase is in that information is "hard, nonpourous surfaces", which wood is NOT.[p]I agree with Rum. I got rid of all of my wood cutting boards and replaced them with the non-pourous teflon ones. Better safe than sorry.[p]Tonia
:~)

Chef Wil · June 2005

Rumrunner,
I didn't mean to take your whole day on this...........LOL
Very Well Put, thanks !!!
This should be bookmarked and placed on a safety sheet for the new Forum, whatya think WMK ???

Bobby-Q · June 2005

Rumrunner,
I agree with everything you posted, well put. Their was a study done in 2003 (I wish I could remember who did it) that showed that wood cutting boards are actually more effective at killing bacteria and preventing the spread of bacteria than anything else on the market. Health departments are letting establishments use them again for meat cutting.[p]It has to do with the way the wood actually dehydrates the bacteria and the PH of the wood, and also with the way the wood "heals" it's skin. The study used 2 whole chickens on a plastic board and on a wood board. The chickens were seperated into quarters, the skin was removed, the breasts were deboned and cut into strips. Then the chicken was removed and the boards were wiped with a wet cloth to just clean, not sanitize the boards. They returned in 1 hour to check the bacteria levels and discovered a significant loss in the bacteria count on the wood board and growth from the plastic board. They ran the plastic board through a chemical dishwasher with a 180° rinse and left the wooden one to air dry for the same amount of time. They both were tested again and the bacteria levels found were at insignificant levels close to 0 on both of the boards.[p]The test was repeated over a hundred times with various wooden board configurations and the results were consistent. [p]I mainly remmebered this study because a) I like wooden cutting boards very much and have used them my whole life, except for in commercial kitchens, and b) This study was done at the request of a plastic cutting board manufacturer.[p]Just something else to chew on.

Unknown · June 2005

Bobby-Q,[p]I read the same report. Hmmm!

Clay Q · June 2005

Chef Wil,
I agree. A link to safe food handling and cooking would be a great asset for our new site.

Ping..........Rumrunner ( butts revisited )

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