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Mustard vs EVOO as base for Brisket

friscoag
friscoag Posts: 97
edited June 2012 in EggHead Forum

I attempted a search but didn't find much.  Has there been a debate on which is better to use as a base or if a base is needed at all?

Opinions?

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Comments

  • BYS1981
    BYS1981 Posts: 2,533
    I haven't seen EVOO vs mustard, but I have seen mustard + spice rub vs. Spice rub. Cen-tex did a brisket half with mustard half without, and found no noticable difference of taste. It is around here somewhere; you might have to go thru his pasts posts to find it.
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  • tazcrash
    tazcrash Posts: 1,852
    +1 seen CTS's post. 
    I would think that EVOO will not dry out enough to make a nice bark.

    Bx - > NJ ->TX!!! 
    All to get cheaper brisket! 
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  • lousubcap
    lousubcap Posts: 32,314
    BYS1981 is correct in the results of the C-T experiment.  That said, I prefer to use the mustard as I think it aids in binding the rub to the meat.  I have not conducted an experiment to verify but visually it appears to help more adhere.  So, as with most things here-my opinion and we all know what those are worth...regardess, you may want to run your own test and see what you prefer.
    Louisville; Rolling smoke in the neighbourhood. # 38 for the win.  Life is too short for light/lite beer!  Seems I'm livin in a transitional period.
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  • travisstrick
    travisstrick Posts: 5,002
    I've done both. I prefer neither. Less mess without and the base is no value added.
    Be careful, man! I've got a beverage here.
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  • GA_Dawgs
    GA_Dawgs Posts: 273
    I prefer to do only the rub on the brisket.  As others who have a lot more experience than me will probably mention, people use mustard since it is water based and evaporates while the EVOO will not evaporate. Don't know if the oil not evaporating will make any difference in the end product, just seems to be the prevailing thought for not using it. 
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  • The Cen-Tex Smoker
    The Cen-Tex Smoker Posts: 22,958
    Mustard will not hurt but EVOO will. Mustard is water based so it evaps away and leaves only the rub. At low and slow temps olive oil will neither evap or burn off (which you would never want anyway). It emulsifies the rub and makes it very hard for it to stick. It can slide off or just stay mushy, but either way, it's much harder to get good bark with oil.

    Use mustard if you want. I don't as I did the great mustard debate thread and noticed no diff. As Travis says. less mess so I don't do it.


    Keepin' It Weird in The ATX FBTX
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  • The Cen-Tex Smoker
    The Cen-Tex Smoker Posts: 22,958
    Here is the cook I did with 50/50 mustard and non.


    Also, Worcestershire is another good option for a binder if you think you need one.

     
    Keepin' It Weird in The ATX FBTX
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  • tazcrash
    tazcrash Posts: 1,852
    +1 seen CTS's post. 
    I would think that EVOO will not dry out enough to make a nice bark.

    At low and slow temps olive oil will neither evap or burn off (which you would never want anyway). It emulsifies the rub and makes it very hard for it to stick. It can slide off or just stay mushy, but either way, it's much harder to get good bark with oil.

    Yes.... \:D/
    Bx - > NJ ->TX!!! 
    All to get cheaper brisket! 
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  • Newportlocal
    Newportlocal Posts: 474
    Here is the cook I did with 50/50 mustard and non.

    http://eggheadforum.com/discussion/1138684/the-great-mustard-debate/p1

    Also, Worcestershire is another good option for a binder if you think you need one.

     


    I want to try the Worcestershire that's what Moe Cason uses just saw that on BBQ pit masters.
    Just learning about what not to add that will burn like olive oil, and adding things with sugar late in the cook,etc.
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  • The Cen-Tex Smoker
    The Cen-Tex Smoker Posts: 22,958
    Here is the cook I did with 50/50 mustard and non.

    http://eggheadforum.com/discussion/1138684/the-great-mustard-debate/p1

    Also, Worcestershire is another good option for a binder if you think you need one.

     


    I want to try the Worcestershire that's what Moe Cason uses just saw that on BBQ pit masters.
    Just learning about what not to add that will burn like olive oil, and adding things with sugar late in the cook,etc.
    Olive oil shouldn't burn at those temps but it's not something you want on low and slow BBQ. It's a jouney. You'l screw your share up (god knows I have)  but once you figure it out, it's a blast.


    Keepin' It Weird in The ATX FBTX
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  • The Cen-Tex Smoker
    The Cen-Tex Smoker Posts: 22,958
    As I sit here pondering (god help us all), I have a thought. Stike has been pontificating on the fact that smoke rings only form up to 140 degrees since the days of the old forum. He says putting a cold brisket on the egg will result in more time below 140 and therefore a deeper smoke ring. I don't normally have super deep smoke rings because I don't normally put cold meat on the egg.

    What does this have to do with binders, you must be asking yourselves? Well, the reason I don't use binders is because I let my brisket sit out as I get the egg ready. As the meat sits on the counter, it sweats. The sweat holds the rub in place and even makes a thick paste out of it. No binder needed. HOWEVER, if you were to put the rub on cold meat right out of the fridge, it would not stick as well. My new theory is, use a binder on very cold meat, put it back in the fridge until you are ready to put it on the egg and you should have a deeper smoke ring (if that's important to you).

    Just a thought.

    Sounds like CenTex has a project for this weekend.

    We"ll keep you posted


    Keepin' It Weird in The ATX FBTX
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  • The Cen-Tex Smoker
    The Cen-Tex Smoker Posts: 22,958
    I will say that there is plenty of moisture on a brisket right out of the cryo to hold the rub but I'm going to try something new this weekend anyway. Off to score a brisket
    Keepin' It Weird in The ATX FBTX
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  • Newportlocal
    Newportlocal Posts: 474
    Here is the cook I did with 50/50 mustard and non.

    http://eggheadforum.com/discussion/1138684/the-great-mustard-debate/p1

    Also, Worcestershire is another good option for a binder if you think you need one.

     


    I want to try the Worcestershire that's what Moe Cason uses just saw that on BBQ pit masters.
    Just learning about what not to add that will burn like olive oil, and adding things with sugar late in the cook,etc.
    Olive oil shouldn't burn at those temps but it's not something you want on low and slow BBQ. It's a jouney. You'l screw your share up (god knows I have)  but once you figure it out, it's a blast.




    Thanks to me the whole thing is a blast. I like the journey and the screw ups.The best recipes I have slowly adjusted getting them better and better. I have learned in life the more open and teachable I am at something the better I get.
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  • The Cen-Tex Smoker
    The Cen-Tex Smoker Posts: 22,958
    Here is the cook I did with 50/50 mustard and non.

    http://eggheadforum.com/discussion/1138684/the-great-mustard-debate/p1

    Also, Worcestershire is another good option for a binder if you think you need one.

     


    I want to try the Worcestershire that's what Moe Cason uses just saw that on BBQ pit masters.
    Just learning about what not to add that will burn like olive oil, and adding things with sugar late in the cook,etc.
    Olive oil shouldn't burn at those temps but it's not something you want on low and slow BBQ. It's a jouney. You'l screw your share up (god knows I have)  but once you figure it out, it's a blast.




    Thanks to me the whole thing is a blast. I like the journey and the screw ups.The best recipes I have slowly adjusted getting them better and better. I have learned in life the more open and teachable I am at something the better I get.
    Took me a while, but that's where II am too. 
    Keepin' It Weird in The ATX FBTX
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  • lousubcap
    lousubcap Posts: 32,314
    @ C-T 1:10PM-I will ride that theory as I usually (95+% of the time) prep the low&slow hunk of meat the day before the journey starts.  And it goes straight from the fridge to the BGE.  I have been paying attention to the smoke ring and 140*F deal for a few years but have not found the energy to run a side-by side test and measure.  Besides, so what...it's all visual.
    Louisville; Rolling smoke in the neighbourhood. # 38 for the win.  Life is too short for light/lite beer!  Seems I'm livin in a transitional period.
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  • The Cen-Tex Smoker
    The Cen-Tex Smoker Posts: 22,958
    @ C-T 1:10PM-I will ride that theory as I usually (95+% of the time) prep the low&slow hunk of meat the day before the journey starts.  And it goes straight from the fridge to the BGE.  I have been paying attention to the smoke ring and 140*F deal for a few years but have not found the energy to run a side-by side test and measure.  Besides, so what...it's all visual.
    It is all visual. Im not doing a side by side. I'll take pics and then do one the old way and compare.

    Just for fun


    Keepin' It Weird in The ATX FBTX
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  • boatbum
    boatbum Posts: 1,273

    Can't sit this one out .... hahahahah

    Mustard is used for bark creation - improving your bark.   Mustard has no impact on taste - the half and half thread only discussed taste.

    ok ... back to being quiet again...   ( sorry Cen-Tex, couldn't resist.

    I agree - EEVO is a changer - would change the outcome.

    Cookin in Texas
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  • The Cen-Tex Smoker
    The Cen-Tex Smoker Posts: 22,958

    Can't sit this one out .... hahahahah

    Mustard is used for bark creation - improving your bark.   Mustard has no impact on taste - the half and half thread only discussed taste.

    ok ... back to being quiet again...   ( sorry Cen-Tex, couldn't resist.

    I agree - EEVO is a changer - would change the outcome.

    Nice profile pic boat bum! Too funny


    Keepin' It Weird in The ATX FBTX
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  • The Cen-Tex Smoker
    The Cen-Tex Smoker Posts: 22,958

    Can't sit this one out .... hahahahah

    Mustard is used for bark creation - improving your bark.   Mustard has no impact on taste - the half and half thread only discussed taste.

    ok ... back to being quiet again...   ( sorry Cen-Tex, couldn't resist.

    I agree - EEVO is a changer - would change the outcome.

    Nice profile pic boat bum! Too funny


    And I bet you $20 I can get as good of bark with no mustard as you can with!


    Keepin' It Weird in The ATX FBTX
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  • The Cen-Tex Smoker
    The Cen-Tex Smoker Posts: 22,958

    Can't sit this one out .... hahahahah

    Mustard is used for bark creation - improving your bark.   Mustard has no impact on taste - the half and half thread only discussed taste.

    ok ... back to being quiet again...   ( sorry Cen-Tex, couldn't resist.

    I agree - EEVO is a changer - would change the outcome.

    No- The half and half discussed bark and taste. I knew it wasn't going to taste. I've done it dozens of times.There was no difference in the bark. Both super crusty




    Keepin' It Weird in The ATX FBTX
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  • The Cen-Tex Smoker
    The Cen-Tex Smoker Posts: 22,958

    Can't sit this one out .... hahahahah

    Mustard is used for bark creation - improving your bark.   Mustard has no impact on taste - the half and half thread only discussed taste.

    ok ... back to being quiet again...   ( sorry Cen-Tex, couldn't resist.

    I agree - EEVO is a changer - would change the outcome.

    No- The half and half discussed bark and taste. I knew it wasn't going to taste. I've done it dozens of times.There was no difference in the bark. Both super crusty




    Here are the results of the great mustard debated:

    OK- Results are IN. After 18+ hours on the pit and 10 of that in the stall................according to 4 people (3 of whom did not know the criteria of the test and me).........no difference at all. The non-fat cap side had such thick crust it was actually too much. The fat cap side was freaking perfect. The crust was still very firm but not too firm. There were parts of the crust on the non fat cap side that you could not even cut through. Once rested a little it softened up perfectly but I wanted to see it right off the pit to get a true picture of what each method produced. There was zero mustard taste, the rub did not stick better to the mustard side, and the crust was no firmer or softer on the mustard side. You literally could tell no difference. For a select brisket that was a full week past it's sell date, it was pretty good. 
    Keepin' It Weird in The ATX FBTX
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  • Newportlocal
    Newportlocal Posts: 474
    Great experiment
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  • BYS1981
    BYS1981 Posts: 2,533
    I have a meat journal (one for each type of meat) to document times, rubs, temps, etc. I recommend it.
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  • Newportlocal
    Newportlocal Posts: 474
    I have a meat journal (one for each type of meat) to document times, rubs, temps, etc. I recommend it.


    Thanks. Sounds like good advice.
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  • Duganboy
    Duganboy Posts: 1,118
    I'm in the Worsty camp.  I use the brisket rub from texasbbqrub.com and that is what they recommend.  Worsty first then the rub until it makes a paste and sticks to the brisket.
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