Cen-Tex ! Sous Vide Chicken Rocks !!!!

The Cen-Tex Smoker · June 2012

Vac seal a marshmallow in a foodsaver bag, and one in a canister. The bag will crush it, the canister will cause the other to balloon. Both will be under vacuum.

And both from the power of the same vacuum applied differently

There's a reason the foodsaver has a juice tray. Because when using the bag, you will draw from the meat

(Not sure what the oil post has to do with it)

(Not sure what the oil post has to do with it)

He was buttering you up before disagreeing with you :))

stike · June 2012

i figured.

i'm not disagreeing with anyone. i'm just talking simple physics.
:))

Newportlocal · June 2012

Vac seal a marshmallow in a foodsaver bag, and one in a canister. The bag will crush it, the canister will cause the other to balloon. Both will be under vacuum.

And both from the power of the same vacuum applied differently

There's a reason the foodsaver has a juice tray. Because when using the bag, you will draw from the meat

(Not sure what the oil post has to do with it)

Oil comment was just saying thanks in regards to the helping me improve my vegetable oil paper towel technique and taking the time for your post. In regards to the vacuum issue. Yes a bag will crush an object like a marshmallow,scallop,fish at high vacuum percentage vs a hard sided container like a foodsaver. However, both containers given the same vacuum percentage will successfully infuse,pickle,or marinate as they are both under the same vacuum. In regards to a juice tray I think that is just a food saver vs chamber vacuum sealer issue. Never read of people with good chamber sealers having the above mentioned issue with proper technique.

Newportlocal · June 2012

Lol Cen-Tex you caught me :D

Newportlocal · June 2012

i figured.

i'm not disagreeing with anyone. i'm just talking simple physics.
:))

FYI I am not doing this to be disagreeable either. I find this topic fascinating in regards to cooking. I took physics, organic chemistry, etc. but this is modernist cuisine Nathan Myrvold territory here who by the way did competition BBQ at the world level. I hope to get the book soon. I am very open to learning on this subject.

stike · June 2012

they aren't under the same vacuum in the way you think. not trying to be a pain in your particular backside, but a practical experiment will show you this.

if you are trying to get marinade INTO something, a foodsaver bag (nonstructural) will not create the same type of vacuum as a canister. as you remove air from around the meat in a bag, the bag collapses. the atmosphere will continue to crush whatever is inside the bag until the foodsaver shuts off. the atmosphere will crush it like a wet sponge, and rather than water getting into the sponge, it will be squeezed out.

additionally, you can't fill the bag with marinade to begin with, because it will all get sucked out.\

but in a canister, the sides cannot collapse and squeeze the object inside it. that object then experience less pressure, and would expand.

this is a sous vide post, and i didn't mean to get it OT. but if you check any industry white paper re: marinading, you'll see that the people to whom it makes the most difference, vacuum marination in tumblers or canisters makes virtually no difference. 1% more liquid is retained, with no improvement in flavor, tenderizing, etc.

Newportlocal · June 2012

they aren't under the same vacuum in the way you think. not trying to be a pain in your particular backside, but a practical experiment will show you this.

if you are trying to get marinade INTO something, a foodsaver bag (nonstructural) will not create the same type of vacuum as a canister. as you remove air from around the meat in a bag, the bag collapses. the atmosphere will continue to crush whatever is inside the bag until the foodsaver shuts off. the atmosphere will crush it like a wet sponge, and rather than water getting into the sponge, it will be squeezed out.

additionally, you can't fill the bag with marinade to begin with, because it will all get sucked out.\

but in a canister, the sides cannot collapse and squeeze the object inside it. that object then experience less pressure, and would expand.

this is a sous vide post, and i didn't mean to get it OT. but if you check any industry white paper re: marinading, you'll see that the people to whom it makes the most difference, vacuum marination in tumblers or canisters makes virtually no difference. 1% more liquid is retained, with no improvement in flavor, tenderizing, etc.

I read about those vacuum tumblers and it appeared they were quite a joke. No offense inteneded to anyone in regards to that comment. I still stand behind the statement that a good vacuum chamber will not suck the marinade out. On a cheap vacuum machine this will be an issue hence you need to put the marinade in ice cube form, but with a good vacuum chamber sealer this isn't necessary. Chamber vacuums can seal a bag of liquids without issue.
Example #1

Example #2 with vegetable oil : ) starts at 8:20 on the video so you don't have to watch the whole thing.

Newportlocal · June 2012

Also, to ease your mind. We aren't off topic. Sous vide is about vacuum,circulators,temp. Controlled water baths. :D

stike · June 2012

...just to be clear, i was talking about the standard foodsaver bags. to the point where i can now type "foodsaver bag" without looking at the keyboard.

and even putting an icecube in them won't do jack. as it melts, it won't be forced in

people wanna vac-marinade, that's fantastic. just can't find any evidence that it's anything other than a great idea. people in the business of selling them will have all sorts of great evidence, but any time spent looking at the studies done by those who would use these commercially, to improve the product and facilitate marinading, agree it doesn't work.

sounds great, and sells meat (my cousin owned a meat shop, and they pimped 'vacuum marinated meat' all the time), and sells machines. but it just isn't how stuff works.

frank318 · June 2012

Just ordered a flavorseal sous vide. They are in Avon, Ohio. It will be shipped today. Any comments about the flavorseal brand? I' m thinking of getting the vacmaster 112, to use with it. Can't wait to do some chicken breast.

Newportlocal · June 2012

Just ordered a flavorseal sous vide. They are in Avon, Ohio. It will be shipped today. Any comments about the flavorseal brand? I' m thinking of getting the vacmaster 112, to use with it. Can't wait to do some chicken breast.

In regards to a flavorseal sous vide. I looked it up it looks good. I don't see any data on temperature variance because it is so new. It appears to be a great water bath similar to a sous vide supreme. It looks really nice and should be a lot of fun. In regards to a vacuum chamber sealer from my extensive research the vacmaster vp112 is very highly liked, pulls a good vacuum, and is half the weight of other similar models. From fisherman to chefs on egullet people really like them. It is the cheapest for a good chamber sealer.

NightwingXP · June 2012

I am just gonna use my beer cooler!
:D

Newportlocal · June 2012

I am just gonna use my beer cooler!
:D

Yep, glad I could help. :D

The Cen-Tex Smoker · June 2012

Still lurking. Just don't have anything to add.

NightwingXP · June 2012

I am just gonna use my beer cooler!
:D

Yep, glad I could help. :D

Really appreciate that Newport! Been dreaming up ideas all day today!
:D

Village Idiot · June 2012

Whenever you all want to get back into the art and cooking with Sous Vide, I'm here to jump in. I'm not into the physics of the process. The propeller heads tend to take these threads over. Sorry, Cen-Tex.

The Cen-Tex Smoker · June 2012

Whenever you all want to get back into the art and cooking with Sous Vide, I'm here to jump in. I'm not into the physics of the process. The propeller heads tend to take these threads over. Sorry, Cen-Tex.

I actually don't mind. I'll just jump back in when I have something to add. I usually pick something up from this stuff so I just sit back and read.

Newportlocal · June 2012

Whenever you all want to get back into the art and cooking with Sous Vide, I'm here to jump in. I'm not into the physics of the process. The propeller heads tend to take these threads over. Sorry, Cen-Tex.

Don't think Cent-Tex minded
Anything you want to say about sous vide I hope you do. Lots of people including myself want the comments.
Insults aren't necessary and I believe this has stayed on a discussion level.

Village Idiot · June 2012

Sorry. When I originated the thread, I had a different direction in mind. Sorry I tried to bring it back to it's original purpose. I'll stay out of this.

Newportlocal · June 2012

Sorry.

Me too if I in any way offended.

Village Idiot · June 2012

I need to reevaluate this forum for my purposes.

Newportlocal · June 2012

I need to reevaluate this forum for my purposes.

Sorry. When I originated the thread, I had a different direction in mind. Sorry I tried to bring it back to it's original purpose. I'll stay out of this.

Unsure what was original purpose certainly was not trying to derail your thread, and I think it was and will be useful to people.

The Cen-Tex Smoker · June 2012

I just started a sous vide tech thread so we can move this back to more of a cooking thread as Gary intended. I think problem solved? I'm down with both and intend to contribute to both. although I have more to contribute to the cooking thread, I have more to learn from the other.

All good?

stike · June 2012

to the extent that i wantonly offended anyone who is easily offended by mentioning something that was OT even though it's more semi-OT, and possibly actually on-topic (despite apologizing for having done so), i'm sorry.

we already lost one vaunted member this week, punishing us with his absence, please dear god let's not lose any other easily offended people who don't (for some reason) themselves worry about offending others.

i also will be re-evaluating the forum for my purposes. but guess what? i'm betting no one really gives a rat's *ss what 'my purposes' are. nor should they.

as an example, i'm no longer an active member in THE official Justin Bieber forum. i can't stand the place anymore. it used to be ALL ABOUT JUSTIN BIEBER. now, it's all tweens and pedos in there, so i stay away, even though i am a huge Justin Bieber fan. I love the topic, but the people there aren't purists, they're not highly invested in the art and wonderment of all things Bieber, like I am. they post LOL-cats memes all the time. i want 100% Bieber. I don't want some clown posting pics of his eco-friendly rain barrel set-up in the main forum. I want nothing but Bieber. and if i start a thread about how he combs his hair, i really don't need some know-it-all-punk coming in talking about Justin's shoes.

funny thing is, in the 'old crappy-BGE-forum style' (classic view') you (the global 'you', not a specific 'you') could entirely avoid all side-bar discussions, because you can clearly see who is talking to who. and you could avoid 'that clown and his sidebar argument/discussion' (that clown being me, or any of the other people you can't stand). you could skip the tete-a-tete about whether vacuums work.

but in the 'flat view' here which is touted as so much better, you can only have one thread. you are forced to wade through musings which stray from the 'art' of sous vide (or Justin Bieber's hair, in my case).

sorry. but if you can't take a little digression, then i shall fall on my sword in supplication. i had no idea talking about vacuums in a thread about using vacuums to cook would be so egregious.

lighten up, francis

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Cen-Tex ! Sous Vide Chicken Rocks !!!!

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