Brisket a little dry

Egg_nut_in_Atlanta · May 2012

Over this Memorial Day weekend I attempted my very first brisket. I bought a whole brisket (complete with flat and point), I rubbed it with my favorite Montreal rub, wrapped it and placed it in the fridge overnight. I started my egg at 7 am and had it ready by 7:30. Tossed on some pre-soaked hickory chunks, placed the meat on the grate and cooked at a solid 225-230 temp. After about the eighth hour the meat reached an internal temp of 195. The darn thing was nearly 13 lbs and I thought there was no way it was near done at only 8 hours. I took it off at ten hours, wrapped it in a towel and placed it in a dry cooler for two hours to rest. When we brought it out, the brisket had a very nice crust, but I couldn't really get good slices. It kinda came off in chunks. It was very flavorful, but a little bit dry. Any ideas on what I can do differently next time to make it more moist?

Brownie · May 2012

That seems incredibly fast to cook 13lb at those temps. Have you calibrated your dome thermometer lately?, or do you use any type of grate thermometer? Others will soon be along to answer your brisket questions.

cazzy · May 2012

I put on a 13 pound brisket on Sunday @ 9pm. I pulled it off at 5pm the following day when the internal temp reached 200. That was even after my fire shot up to 300 the 1st few hours before it settled down at 235. Not sure how yours cooked so quickly.

smoke_monster · May 2012

That seems really fast. I did a 13lbs whole packer this weekend and it took 18 hours + a little more for the burnt ends.

The first time I cooked a brisket, it was dry and tough. I cooked that one to temperature (195 ish). I've since realized that it was dry and tough because I under cooked it - under cooking can apparently result in dry brisket. Some spots may read 195, but there are often areas that are still in the 180's in the flat. I've found that checking in several places with a fork or instant read thermometer probe for resistance is the best way to check if they are ready.

lousubcap · May 2012

@smoke_monster-Astute read on the briskets. All I can get are flats and hitting a home-run is a real crap-shoot. But the one thing that will at least get a double is to follow your advice with the good 'ol probe. It's "done when it's done" and that window is quite narrow.

Brownie · May 2012

+1 for crap shoot. My first flat was the best one I've ever made. Now it seems I'm living in the past when my flats are not as good. I'm not giving up though.
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lousubcap · May 2012

+1 for crap shoot. My first flat was the best one I've ever made. Now it seems I'm living in the past when my flats are not as good. I'm not giving up though.
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Yup-best I have ever done was May 2011-been close a few times but not there-Of course, the journey is the best part and if I can get a double (or single..) I'll take it. And keep on experimenting...:)

Egg_nut_in_Atlanta · May 2012

Thanks folks! The best part is...even when its not all according to plan...its pretty hard to screw up completely with the BGE!!!!!

dtun1 · May 2012

I've smoked about 70 briskets over the past 15 yr. Saturday, I smoked my 1st brisket on my BGE. I approached it just like all the others I've done on my gas smoker. 1 hr before putting it on, I sparyed it with olive oil & rubbed it with my custom rub. See recipe under rubs in forum. I soaked mesquite chips in water for 30 minutes. Put the chips on just before putting brisket on. Brisket was just under 12 lb. Smoked brisket at 250 with fat side up. I just put a drip pan under grill. On my old gas smoker I would have had water in the pan but not on the BGE. I smoked the brisket until it reached 170 which took 10 hr. 170 is the temp for well done beef. Over cooking dries out the brisket no matter how slow you cook it. Internal temp is the key. This was the moistest best tasting brisket I've every made. I'm a believer in the BGF!

cazzy · May 2012

@dtun1 170? I'm curious to hear some others take on it, particularly @stike

I always hear people taking their briskest off in the 190+ range so I'm curious about your 170 strategy. Please explain more.

Outcast · May 2012

Im curious as well. I've always cooked until 195 then pulled.

Gato · May 2012

Briskets are done when they are done. IMO if you cook every brisket to a certain predetermined temp you are setting yourself up for failure. Brisket has to be cooked until fork tender and every one is different.

cazzy · May 2012

That's good advice Gato. So you don't use a thermometer? How do you determine about what time it's done if your doing fork checks? Or when to start said fork checks.

dtun1 · May 2012

Temp for well done beef is 170. Once you cook past that temp you start drying the meat out. If you pull off off at 170 the meat will continue to cook also. When I first started smoking briskets it always seem to me my briskets were dry. I first went to 185 then 180 and found 170 gave me the moistest brisket. Another key is getting there low & slow.

rtaylor · May 2012

I agree with @Gato & @dtun1 I cooked my first brisket on the BGE last weekend, and I used the same approach as dtun1 and cooked it until I could stick a fork in it and twist w/o a lot of resistance. IT ended up being about 10 hours cook with about 1.5 hours sitting in the cooler wrapped in tin foil bathing in beef broth. Everyone was impressed and loved how moist and delicious it was.

rtaylor · May 2012

Here is some pictures from that cook:

Gato · May 2012

That's good advice Gato. So you don't use a thermometer? How do you determine about what time it's done if your doing fork checks? Or when to start said fork checks.

I do use a thermometer, but I usually do not check until at least 185°

Gato · May 2012

@dtun1 are you wrapping your briskets in foil for any length of time when pulling at 170°? Just curious..

dtun1 · May 2012

This is the brisket I smoked Saturday,

Gato · May 2012

Looks good..

dtun1 · May 2012

When it reached 170, I closed off the egg & let it set for 30 minutes. I then pulled it off & let it rest for 30 minutes uncovered before cutting. If I need to keep it for an extended time I will wrap in foil & a towel then put it in a cooler.

cazzy · May 2012

While I have very very limited brisket experience, I've been under the impression that brisket (as pull pork) isn't like cooking conventional beef. I realize that 170 is well done beef but I didn't think it applied in this scenario.

You say past that it begins to dry out but I pulled mine at 200 and it was very moist...even after 3 hours rest. I think this kind of goes along the lines of what @Gato said how not one brisket cook is the same.

I also thought there was collagen break down in the high temps which makes the meat tender. I'm sure someone can break down the exact scientific process but your strategy goes away from what I thought was brisket conventional wisdom.

cazzy · May 2012

Very eager to hear more takes on this.

stike · May 2012

170 is well done for a roast (or steak, which is nothing more than a thin bit of a roast), but underdone for a brisket (or any barbecue meat).

Why?

Well. A roast is a fine cut, and barely needs any cooking at all. We cook it just as little as we can stand because it is ALREADY tender. Cook it to give it color and flavor, firm it up, and so that it isn't truly raw. But damn near raw

So why take a brisket (or ribs, or butt) way beyond that? Easiest way to answer that is to cook one to the same temp you'd call a roast done. It'll suck. Tough and likely dry

Wtf?

A brisket or butt or ribs are NOT fine cuts. They do all the work. Ribs move constantly, the legs carrying the animal around.

What to do?
Take them to 195 or so, and slowly, if possible

If you flinch, and take them off at 170, they'll be dry and tough, just like an overcooked roast

But tease them along to 195, and the tough connective collagen will break down. The meat can no longer hold itself together, and the collagen will have literally been converted to gelatin. That gelatin makes the meat feel moist, disguising the fact that it really is dry, most of the water ('moisture') having been driven away back in the slow climb from 150-190. You ARE cooking it until it is dry. But thankfully the very thing that makes it tough (collagen) will convert to Jell-o (i'm not lying), and actually re-wet the meat, replacing the lost water with slippery gelatin. And since this Collagen is what made it tough, its being gone means it'll fall apart. Tender and if not 'moist' by roast standards, certainly succulent and soft, slippery.

You are not cooking a roast, so ignore roasting techniques. Just as this is not a lobster, you would not steam it for fifteen minutes for the first pound, and two minutes a pound thereafter

cazzy · May 2012

@stike

Your knowledge about meat is beyond impressive bro. Thanks for the lesson!!

stike · May 2012

All i do is repeat crap i learned on the forum, and by doing. nothing new here

My day job is to take all sorts of stuff other people have already figured out, and to try to describe it as simply as i can. Rarely works, but still fun.

Rolling Egg · May 2012

170 is well done for a roast (or steak, which is nothing more than a thin bit of a roast), but underdone for a brisket (or any barbecue meat). Why? Well. A roast is a fine cut, and barely needs any cooking at all. We cook it just as little as we can stand because it is ALREADY tender. Cook it to give it color and flavor, firm it up, and so that it isn't truly raw. But damn near raw So why take a brisket (or ribs, or butt) way beyond that? Easiest way to answer that is to cook one to the same temp you'd call a roast done. It'll suck. Tough and likely dry Wtf? A brisket or butt or ribs are NOT fine cuts. They do all the work. Ribs move constantly, the legs carrying the animal around. What to do? Take them to 195 or so, and slowly, if possible If you flinch, and take them off at 170, they'll be dry and tough, just like an overcooked roast But tease them along to 195, and the tough connective collagen will break down. The meat can no longer hold itself together, and the collagen will have literally been converted to gelatin. That gelatin makes the meat feel moist, disguising the fact that it really is dry, most of the water ('moisture') having been driven away back in the slow climb from 150-190. You ARE cooking it until it is dry. But thankfully the very thing that makes it tough (collagen) will convert to Jell-o (i'm not lying), and actually re-wet the meat, replacing the lost water with slippery gelatin. And since this Collagen is what made it tough, its being gone means it'll fall apart. Tender and if not 'moist' by roast standards, certainly succulent and soft, slippery. You are not cooking a roast, so ignore roasting techniques. Just as this is not a lobster, you would not steam it for fifteen minutes for the first pound, and two minutes a pound thereafter

Yea. What he said!

dtun1 · May 2012

dtun1 · May 2012

When I posted my response on the dry brisket I thought it was simple response which has worked for me for years. I did not want to start a debate. The fact is I know how I cook my briskets & the results. Saturday when I sliced my brisket, It was so juicy that it dripped off the counter top & the dog got a treat. Also you can cut it with a fork. I've learned to cook a brisket over years of trial & error. I know it works. Using the BGE just made it better.

1 last thing, I only check the temp in 1 location & that is the thickest part of the brisket.

This is my final word on the subject.

cazzy · May 2012

Obviously, there are multiple ways to skin a cat dtun so you're not being called out. Your approach isn't typical, which is the only reason why there is conversation about it. It's all good

BYS1981 · May 2012

I took a corned beef brisket off at 170 degrees few months ago.. friend and wife said they liked it, but I thought it was tough (and salty, but my fault). Stike is the reason why I figured out why the meat was tough, lol. Thanks for taking time to reiteriate what goes on with the briskets, shoulders, ribs etc.

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