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Permatex Ultra Copper Still Best Gasket?

TedWTedW Posts: 16
edited November -1 in EggHead Forum
Hi all. Like many others my gasket fried. BGE is great with sending Nomex out, but i'm looking for the best possible gasket process. From reading old posts here, it seems that many are very happy with the Permatex Ultra Copper only as a gasket. No Rutland, no Nomex, no Cotronics.

Just checking to see if that's still the case with the general consensus.

I realize that many run their grills bareback with no gasket. I'm sure they work but I'm not interested in that. I want a gasket.

Thanks!

Comments

  • ranger rayranger ray Posts: 812
    i'm the guy who "invented" it.... my red silicone( rtv) has been on for seven years.... no problems....( i'm not in the clique).... when ( if? ) it wears out .... i'll go to copper....a waste of and extra buck? probably? and worth it.... the red color doesn't go well with green.... maybe permatex will make some green goop if we ask nicely?.... lol......... i'm sure it will work out fine for you!.... ranger ray......
  • TedWTedW Posts: 16
    Hey Ranger. I've seen your name on some previous threads. Thanks for bringing this technique to us.

    This is what I've put together as my approach. This is about verbatim what forum member kjed posted last fall. Thanks kjed!

    Seems like the best approach so far is to put a thick bead of the Copper on the lip of the cleaned base, with voids at 3, 6, and 9 o'clock. Place saran wrap over the bead, place some small wooden dowels ( 1/4") in the voids, close the lid, and wait 24 hours.

    Then take more Permatex, fill in the voids where the dowels were, place saran wrap over them, close the lid, and wait another 24 hours.

    A small cut(s) can be made in the seal for probe wires.

    Use warm tubes. Plastic nozzle off.

    Either remove the bottom band or tape the area off so cleanup is easier.

    The whole process is easier of the entire unit is at room temp. I suppose it will flow better when warm before it starts to stiffen up.

    Sounds like I'll need 4-5 tubes for a thicker gasket on my Large Egg. One fellow used 4 tubes on a medium Egg. Another guy used 2.5 tubes on his Large but I like the idea of a thicker gasket.
  • ChubbyChubby Posts: 2,790
    I still can't believe there are folks who use this type of material on something where they cook with open flame, and nearly direct exposure to fumes and or contact with food.

    :blink:

    Ever taken a gander at the chemicals in these products? Yikes!!

    :huh:

    Say what you will, but:

    If your gasket is applied correctly...and the bands are adjuisted properly, more times than not your gasket....(even the felt) will last many years.

    Yes...there have been and will continue to be exceptions!!!

    Evans
  • fishlessmanfishlessman Posts: 15,968
    its never been a case with the general consensus that silicone made a great gasket. it works and i would bet it only works for those that dont go really hight temp, felt will work for those as well. will it cook at 1200 for extended cooks, i cook at those temps, i dont think so :laugh: i run no gaskets because thats the only thing that works. sticky back rutlands fail at 900, yes they fail before i get to temp. rutland cement fails if its old when its applied, when it gets wet for a week or two, probably lasts longer than most. my last egg i removed the felt the day i openened the box, why wait :laugh: :laugh:
  • stikestike Posts: 15,597
    Silicone is common in cooking. Parchment paper isn't really parchment paper. It's paper and silicone. Many utensils and baking vessels are silicone too.

    I don't use them, but many do. Many folks who are petrified of aluminum will cook with silicone. Go figure.

    I'll reiterate the opinion I have which never seems to get an answer: that anyone concerned about fumes really shouldn't purchase a vessel that spews lethal amounts of carbon monoxide every time you fire it.

    I have no idea how the silicone fumes from his gasket would be worse to inhale than CO it is comingled with . Forest, meet trees.

    ...and that's ignoring the formaldehyde and carcinogens from the lump

    We tend to ignore the dangerous stuff we are overly familiar with and focus on the less dangerous stuff we are unfamiliar with

    Most people are comfortable driving a mile to get a gallon of milk. That's ridiculously more dangerous than flying to Australia
    ed egli avea del cul fatto trombetta -Dante
  • Little StevenLittle Steven Posts: 26,177
    Where the hell are you?

    Steve 

    Caledon, ON

     

  • stikestike Posts: 15,597
    Was here.
    e81a547f.jpg
    Now not.
    Back in the land of pasty flesh.
    ed egli avea del cul fatto trombetta -Dante
  • ChubbyChubby Posts: 2,790
    If your point it that life is about choices, and some are better than others...I agree!

    If you're saying there is very little we do that doesn't carry some risk...inheirant or not...I absolutely agree!

    If you're saying that bacause I choose to walk across the street to get a gallon of milk...(therefore accepting the risk) that..,
    that is reason to then go ahead and add to that risk by doing it blindfolded...
    then I dont'agree!

    As my Debate Coach used to say..." I'll accept you premise...since it's yours...just not the logic that gets you there"!!

    Be safe out there Stike...glad you made it home from the land of palm trees and blue water!

    ;)
  • TedWTedW Posts: 16
    Thread took a bit of an odd twist methinks...
  • MusicMan78MusicMan78 Posts: 182
    I put an Ultra Copper gasket on my mini because I go nuclear with it on a regular basis and it is holding up well so far. My large still has the original felt because she is mostly used for slow and low.
  • EggscriberEggscriber Posts: 275
    Hi,
    I used the Permatex gasket material as per Ranger Ray, and it works great! Just do it!
  • ChubbyChubby Posts: 2,790
    No offense to the folks who have used Permatex...but since you're relatively new here...I'd just say...you believe this is a good choice for use as a gasket... based on what?

    I am not a scientist.., (to be sure)..., but does any of this give you pause?

    http://www.permatex.com/documents/msds/01_USA-English/81878.pdf

    ...at least for a minute?

    I'd love to see a reply from the company to a querry asking them about their recomendations for it's use around food.., on your Egg..,
    at the temps you're going to subject it to while also exposing it to direct flame and moisture.

    :unsure:

    I'm no Polly Ana...and to be sure this is my opinion...and just that! But It sure seems wise to at least to do some more extensive reaserch,
    and get your info from those who really know the product.., and it's properties.

    As Fish said above...I think it's more accurate to say that there is not a consenus on this...(certianly not on the product's safety used as it's being reccomended here)!!

    Will it work...?? sure...for some it will..,(and does) work just fine! (So do the other Gaskets for that matter)
    If they have no safety questions or concerns with the Permatex, that's all good too!! I'm just saying "they" believe it's ok...,(and have no problem recommending it to you).., based on what??

    You're a big boy I'm sure!! I do not intend that you sub my judgement for yours!! (most folks who've known me here forever would tell you that's a "for schitt" idea :woohoo: ...lol!!!)

    I'm simply asserting that maybe more checking is in order! Seems prudent to be safe...where you and yours are concerned.

    Signed...Pollyana ;)

    PS...Welcome aboard.., and Congrats on your Egg!
  • HossHoss Posts: 14,587
    ;) No gasket=NO GASKET PROBLEMS! :laugh:
  • HossHoss Posts: 14,587
    IF, and I DO MEAN IF, I were to consider using a useless gasket,(HIGHLY UNLIKELY), it would be the permatex copper on the bottom ONLY! :) I understand people have different thoughts on things and I respect that.I hope you find the solution you are looking for and post many cooks and pics on this forum.Welcome to the Magical Kingdom. :)
  • 70chevelle70chevelle Posts: 278
    What type of glue is used for the stock and Rutland gasket?
  • 70chevelle70chevelle Posts: 278
    What type of glue is used for the stock and Rutland gasket?
  • TedWTedW Posts: 16
    Thank you for all of your replies. I came to this gasket conclusion after quite a bit of reading on several forums. After 2 weeks my original BGE gasket fried and created a leak by the hinge. Knowing that factory supplied parts can often be replaced by a higher performance part, I went Googling.

    Many people feel great about having no gasket. That’s fine, but there is value in having the unit sealed. In my opinion. So I’m not interested in running bareback at this time.

    Many people replaced their units with Nomex and are happy. Others fried Nomex also and quickly. So Nomex seems to be a better solution that stock gasket, but not the highest temp rated goal that I have.

    Others still went with the Rutland or Cotronics gaskets. Glued down with a gasket maker product from Permatex. There were some concerns about the Rutland and the fiberglass. I have no information as to the real hazard that may or may not exist with the fiberglass particles.

    Obviously any Permatex used to secure the Rutland will be exposed to the same air and heat and the Rutland will not shield your food from anything coming out of the Permatex.

    Clearly any fiberous gasket material might cause some person some concern. I would have gone with a Rutland + Permatex solution, except there are a lot of people that created a gasket only out of the Permatex gasket maker. No fiberous gasket. Hmmm…

    [li]Permatex + Rutland works “OK”[/li]
    [li]but Rutland may have some fiber hazard[/li]
    [li]and omitting Rutland leaves just the Permatex[/li]
    [li]And a surprising number of people like just Permatex[/li]

    Seems like a logical conclusion to simply eliminate the fiber portion of the solution and go all Permatex.

    Then the question opens up about which Permatex. Go with the Red that is food service compliant, or the Copper that is 50 degrees F. higher rated. I looked at the MSDS sheet for both and they both look frightening. I’ll be calling their technical services department tomorrow. I want to know if any of the hazards extend beyond the curing period. I want to know if the Copper is not food compliant because of a particular included ingredient OR if Permatex simply didn’t want to pay UL Labs $50k for a fire test and chemical analysis of the Copper when they already had an approved Red.

    My guess (speculation) is that the Copper is fine or at least equal to the Red. The hazards are during cure and a heating after cure to purge remaining unreacted components and solvents will render either the Red or Copper essentially (equally) inert. That’s my guess. We’ll see.
  • stikestike Posts: 15,597
    the MSDS for most things, including water, looks frightening.

    for the vast majority of all people, when it comes to assessing risk, they do it poorly. understating the real dangers and overstating the lesser ones. that includes me, by the way.

    but i'll say again, anyone thinking that fumes from anything in the egg, (and this includes using radioactive waste as a fuel source), are going to kill you before anything already in the egg does (charcoal), is just either lookin the other way, or not reading the MSDS on the products they DO choose to use.

    my permatex doesn't burn, because it is not exposed to the direct heat capable of causing it to burn. if it DID burn, however, the fumes are only minor irritants, and not at all hazardous (that info is in the MSDS which was waved around in abject horror, btw). it's a low fire hazard, low health hazrd, even if actually burning (which it doesn't do in the egg)

    for what it's worth, because the MSDS sheet seems to be a favorite form of 'evidence' around here, the MSDS for FOOD-GRADE silicone gives it a HIGHER flammability rating, and the SAME health rating (also, if ignited). this of course will be dismissed by some, but it is the truth.

    we had a respected guy here find hs food grade silicone cookware melting and burning. he did the normal [prudent thing. he didn't eat the food, and put out the fire. because it is MORE flammable than the permatex (it is), should he have not used it in the egg?

    in the end, you should do what you think is best for YOU. i wouldn't trust the guy (me) who is telling you that your parachute is packed. neither would i trust the guy telling you not to get in the plane at all. if you wanna jump, jump. but pack your own parachute.
    ed egli avea del cul fatto trombetta -Dante
  • stikestike Posts: 15,597
    i am saying thatsome folks warning about one thing tend to overlook the REAL issues at hand, especially whenm they conflict with their position.

    warning about hypothetical fumes from something in the egg is illogical if you never warn about the fumes we know are actually there.

    if someone can explain to me how a person can be harmed by inhaling the fumes from burning permatex (that's accepting the flawed logic that it will actually burn in a gasket situation), while somehow avoiding the fumes of carbon monoxide and formaldehyde from the charcoal itself, i will acknowledge that your debate coach did well

    oerhaps it's the fumes landing on the food/ well, there's formaldehyde in wood smoke too, among many other things. so people clearly either aren't worried about that, or they don't know about it.

    anyway, i think our friend appears smart enough to figure out his own answer... i suppose i coulda just shut up about it in the first place.

    as fr getting back safely. i'm back safely from florida because i took a plane. it's much safer than driving.

    my S.I.L. won't get into a plane, but will drive to Florida.

    that logic is flawed, and baseless.

    even though you could debate it with her, it wouldn't mean she were correct, even if she 'won' the debate.

    as you must know, any good debater should be able to switch mid-stream and debate his opponent's position with equal fervor. if not, he's a poor debater, and not informed enough on the subject.

    i never took debate.

    i debated taking it, though :)
    ed egli avea del cul fatto trombetta -Dante
  • TedWTedW Posts: 16
    I agree and think the risk is maybe being overstated without all the facts. This is common, regardless of the topic. Debate something with limited data.

    I will get more data tomorrow, and maybe settle some of this.
  • TedWTedW Posts: 16
    OK. Just spoke with tech services at Permatex. The Copper is essentially as inert as the Red. After curing, neither will produce any off-gassing, etc. No reason to go to the Red regarding health concerns.

    So I'm going Copper
  • fishlessmanfishlessman Posts: 15,968
    when you say fried are you meaning it got gooey and fell off, or just charred. if its just black and charred its a good thing, reset the dome so it sits better, it will cook for years that way until it all gets charred and flakes off, its really fine that way.
  • TedWTedW Posts: 16
    Fried, as in degraded to the point where smoke billows out the back. The unit is currently unsealed
  • fishlessmanfishlessman Posts: 15,968
    i would loosen the dome and reseat it better, may still smoke a little but that really isnt much of a problem. there may be alot of life in that gasket, charring and shrinking is what you would want instead of how most of the new gaskets fail. i reset the dome several times over three or 4 years before the gasket was really gone, i wouldnt even think to change it unless your experiencing other problems like its always sticking, or dripping off, or you cant contol the heat anymore etc.
  • TedWTedW Posts: 16
    Understood. I appreciate the help. I'm Permatex gasket bound, however
  • Sorry if this posts twice, I lost internet connection.
    Have you ever been standing there with a blazing fire going for some pizzas when your gasket decides it has had too much.... I can assure you that your "super safe food grade felt gaskets" are not so health friendly during a meltdown/burnup while you have food cookin. You show me the data that shows its ok to eat food cooked on smoking felt gaskets, and then maybe I will subscribe to your theory.
  • Sorry if this posts twice, I lost internet connection.
    Have you ever been standing there with a blazing fire going for some pizzas when your gasket decides it has had too much.... I can assure you that your "super safe food grade felt gaskets" are not so health friendly during a meltdown/burnup while you have food cookin. You show me the data that shows its ok to eat food cooked on smoking felt gaskets, and then maybe I will subscribe to your theory.
  • asfishasfish Posts: 25

    I would like to do this to my XL as like others here pizza cooks finished my gasket off.  One question do you just put the Permatex seal on the bottom lip of the egg? Or on the top as well?

    Getting this stuff in the UK is a nightmare, found one place online that wanted £20 ($32) per tube!

    Bought 12 of them on Amazon US for $46 and shipped them to our US office, will have them sent to the UK via Internal Fedax

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