what would fish sauce do to this

smokesniffer · February 2012

Gearing Up for next week. Planning on some tenderloin steaks and lobster. We have always enjoyed just using olive oil and salt and pepper on the steak prior to grilling. A while back, some of you introduced me to "Dwell in the Shell" Lobster. It was amazing. Loved the flavour of both meats Wanting to do it again. What would fish sauce taste like on both meats. These cuts of meat aren't cheap so don't know if I should experiment or not. It is a surprise for Valentine's Day. Don't want to make a mistake. Would the fish sauce heighten the taste? Or should I just leave well enough alone?

TIA

gamera06 · February 2012

As from Vietnamese descent I can't tell you that fish sauce won't be good. In the lobster you can put some cilantro, garlic and lemongrass to marinate in the fish sauce, and then inject in the shell.

smokesniffer · February 2012

Unfortunately, I don't have anything to inject with,,,, yet. Still need to acquire some more accessories.

Village Idiot · February 2012

I love to use fish sauce, but I've always put it in something that will be mixed, like hamburger meat, sauces, etc. I've never injected it into a meat. I'd be a little afraid to do that.

Little Steven · February 2012

SS,

Think you answere your own question with "Loved the flavour of both meats". I tried fish sauce in a lobster bisque I made once and threw the whole batch out.

deepsouth · February 2012

ust throwing out the name "red boat" fish sauce here.

KingRover · February 2012

@deepsouth

I was thinking about ordering some Red Boat, but was balking at the shipping cost (I'm used to free shipping on Amazon.) You think its it worth the extra $$ over 3 Crabs or Thai Kitchen?

deepsouth · February 2012

oh. hell. yes.

my opinion of course, but i've heard from others more expert on fish sauce than me that said they'd pour out their 3 crabs.

KingRover · February 2012

Haha, thats just the push I need then. Thanks.

Village Idiot · February 2012

I've not made a study of fish sauce, but Grace Young says in her book "Stir Frying To the Sky's Edge" (pg. 36) that Viet Huong Three Crabs fish sauce is her favorite brand. I bought some $20 for 3 oz. Italian colatura (same thing) and couldn't tell the difference from 3 Crabs.

If anyone wants to throw out their Three Crabs, I'll certainly take it.

BTW, Grace Young's two books "Breath Of A Wok" and "Stir Frying To The Sky's Edge" are both best sellers and perhaps the most popular Asian cookbooks on the market today.

KingRover · February 2012

I think a taste test is in order.

On Amazon, Three Crabs can be had for $16.15, with free shipping (Amazon Prime), for a 24 oz, 710 mL. Red Boat 500 mL ran $16.95, although price per bottle is cheaper if you order more than 1. I like that Red Boat doesn't contain anything except anchovies and salt, but dollar for dollar, Three Crabs may be the better everyday value. There may very well be room for both in my kitchen, not unlike olive oils, vinegars, wines, etc.

Also, Red Boat is relatively new, right? Not sure when the Grace Young recommendation is from.

Village Idiot · February 2012

Taste test of Fish Sauce ???? lol. Actually, you don't want to taste the fish sauce. You want to savor the umami released by it. If you just take a swig of it, you'll probably puke.

I'm sure both brands are good, so whatever is easier to get should be fine. Stir Frying To The Sky's Edge was published in 2010.

KingRover · February 2012

Oh its been done! http://www.cooksillustrated.com/tastetests/overview.asp?docid=9878

"Tasters had the option of tasting the fish sauce straight up (which few could stomach) "

People do it with olive oil. I don't think I could do that, but I think will try a couple of drops of the fish sauce in its purest form to see if I can even notice a difference.

stike · February 2012

the umami is the fish sauce, it's just so concentrated, you don't want it straight. whatever it's thinned in picks up the flavor.

romans used to thin it down with water or wine and drink it straight. used it in everything.

i think every ancient culture had some version of it, but i can't imagine how they ever tried it the first time

you could even make your own (i don't think anyone does just saying), but if you don't like to see how sausages are made, you can be sure the fish sauce would be twenty times worse :(

lea and perrins worcestershire is a version of fish sauce. i wouldn't try that straight either, but it's good in burgers and meatloaf, etc.

deepsouth · February 2012

i hope i'm not breaking any forum rules, but here is a pretty intensive thread about fish sauce and red boat in particular and on of the contributors owns "red boat".

http://www.bbq-brethren.com/forum/showthread.php?t=110546&highlight=red+boat

deepsouth · February 2012

this is a quote from him....

"Red is the first authentic Vietnamese fish sauce to make it to these shores since the 1970s when the Vietnam war resulted in a trade embargo causing the Chinese and Thais to start making highly processed fish sauce to fill the gap. All fish sauces in the States today with exception of Thai Kitchen, are made with third and fourth pressing of anchovies with water, MSG, hydrolyzed wheat proteins and sugar added for flavor.

To make Red Boat we use an artisanal process that is 200 years old. We work with local fisherman in Phu Quoc Island Vietnam. Wild caught anchovies caught at specific times of year are salted with local sea salt minutes after leaving the waters off the island. We then place them in 10 foot high hand made tropical wood barrels that hold 14,000 lbs of fish, and slow ferment them at ambient tropical temperatures and humidity for 12-16 months. We then do barrel tastings, open the tap on the best barrels, blend, filter and bottle. It is extra-virgin, with Zero water, additives, sugar, or preservatives. Red Boat has more than double the naturally fermented protein content of the processed versions and it shows in umami levels. If you have ever heard of umami, or savoriness, this stuff is off the charts in it! "

stike · February 2012

they don't need to add MSG because it's already jammed full of it. hahaha

nothing bad about msg. i bet most of the folks who say they have an issue with it consume it often without knowing it

more msg, please!

deepsouth · February 2012

i've never had a problem with msg. is there such a thing as naturally occuring versus artifically added?

Village Idiot · February 2012

Chinese Restaurant Syndrome.

Not my wife, she will blow up like a balloon if she eats it. Often, when she has a bad reaction after eating out, we will call the restaurant and ask if they use MSG in their food. Invariably, they say YES.

stike · February 2012

just saying....msg IS in fish sauce, naturally. monosodium glutamate is naturally occuring, and it's the resaon fish sauce does what it does. not trying to start anything. just saying, MSG occurs naturally. in great amounts. and that no legit study has ever turned up a connection.

to paraphrase john lennon. all we are saying... is give msg a chance.:)

deepsouth · February 2012

Phu quoc is boring.

wonderful addition to the thread!

Village Idiot · February 2012

just saying....msg IS in fish sauce, naturally. monosodium glutamate is naturally occuring, and it's the resaon fish sauce does what it does. not trying to start anything. just saying, MSG occurs naturally. in great amounts. and that no legit study has ever turned up a connection.

to paraphrase john lennon. all we are saying... is give msg a chance.:)

Very interesting point, Stike. My wife is allergic to shellfish ... she can eat some shrimp, a little crab, and no lobster. Fish is no problem with her. But, I have put fish sauce in her food for over a year (admittedly, small amounts) without a reaction. So, if MSG is fish sauce, I would think she'd have a reaction to it. Very complicated.

stike · February 2012

VI.

yeah. the fish in fish sauce is the source for the proteins and salts and all which become the fish sauce, but the sauce isn't supposed to (as you know) taste like fish.

it's more about the hard to name savory taste it adds (thankfully, we now have a name for it in 'umami').

glutamate is a commonly occurring thing. it's in anchovies, cheese, etc.

again, not to start trouble (either with you, or between you and your wife), you might be surprised to know (as i was) that there has never been a truly double-blind test which established any connection between MSG and any symptoms reported by those complaining of an issue.

i don't mention that when i meet someone who says they are allergic to msg. i nod politely. hahahaha

Little Steven · February 2012

There are two main glutimates that contribute to high levels of "umami". Some seaweeds and fish and shellfish are very high. People tend to toss the term around like it applies only to fish sauce but tomatoes, onions, most meats and specifically veal are very high as well. Charcouterie, and cheese rank also

Village Idiot · February 2012

Stike,

I am extremely interested in your post, and I thank you for it.!!! I would love not to have to worry about MSG in something I cook, but I've always been afraid to try it. For instance, there is a spice used in Chilean empanadas (which we both love) that calls for Goya .... (something), but the package says it has MSG in it. So, I've used paprika in it's place for all these years.

Because of your post, I am going to start an experiment (without my wife's knowledge). If she gets sick, I'll blame it on the dogs like we do everything else.

:))

Thanks again.

stike · February 2012

That's only a single blind test, but better than nothin! :))

Flamethrower · February 2012

Just keep the Benydril or an Epi pen ,Just in case

Village Idiot · February 2012

VI.

again, not to start trouble (either with you, or between you and your wife), you might be surprised to know (as i was) that there has never been a truly double-blind test which established any connection between MSG and any symptoms reported by those complaining of an issue.

i don't mention that when i meet someone who says they are allergic to msg. i nod politely. hahahaha

Also, not wanting to start trouble, but to learn as much as I can about this, my wife (Ph.D. Nurse Researcher) says you cannot have a double blind randomized test because it would be unethical, just like the Tuskeegee Syphilis Experiment.

stike · February 2012

what was unethical about the Tuskegee experiment was giving them syphilis. not that it was a double blind. in a double blind, you KNOW you may or may not get something. but neither you nor the patient know if you did.

when double blind becomes unethical is when a treatment exists which can help the patient, but that patient is given a placebo in order to study the efficacy of the newer treatment being tested. letting someone get worse (when they can be helped by existing meds), just so that you can test new treatments, is unethica.

giving them an illness (as Tuskegee) is unethical.

but a test where both the patient and person conducting the test know that either a treatment or placebo will be given, but that neither person will know which is which, is not unethical.

single-blind is when the doctor knows what the patient is getting but the patient doesn't. double blind is when the doctor (or whomever is administering the treatment) does not know, and neither does the patient. but in all cases, it is unethical to administer something like syphilis to an unsuspecting patient.

double blind tests are not inherently unethical, and single blind is no more ethical.
yours would have been unethical for not telling your wife.

at any rate, looks like you caved and went to the wife anyway hahaha

it astounds me how many threads on these forums revolve around what a man's wife will or won't do.
:) pink pork, aging beef, etc.

Village Idiot · February 2012

I might have explained it wrong to her. At any rate, this is giving me a headache .... or maybe it was the Chinese food I ate last night. :))

FxLynch · February 2012

There are many Thai dishes that I add straight MSG (Aji No Moto) to, since thats how I was taught to cook it. On the bag, it says "umami super seasoning". I've done this for 16yrs and no one has complained yet.

I do always chuckle to myself when I see labels "bragging" about how the product is "MSG Free!!" while I'm purposely adding it into mine.

Not saying it's good, or bad, just adding my experience.

I did see a news show a long time ago where people in a restaurant were asked if they were allergic to MSG, and I don't remember the exact layout but I know they either told them their food had it, and it didn't or vice versa. The people were shocked, and some embarrassed to find it might have been a perceived reaction vs reality.

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