The Benefits of a Water Pan, Convincing a Fellow BBQer

Canary · January 2012

My brother is a fairly seasoned BBQer. He has the Weber smoker and considers himself somewhat of a purist. He has "doubts" about the BGE because there isn't a water pan. He also appears to believe that a vessel as versatile as the BGE probably can't do any one thing - e.g. smoking - well because it was designed to do many things well but not any one thing great.

He's coming around but I have yet to smoke anything so I can't point to a success just yet. And that will take some time as I am a smoking newbie.

He's interested in an XL. But he's just not there yet.

So, what about the water pan claim? Nothing to it?

bluegrasstiger · January 2012

I can't comment on the comparison to a Weber, but I do use a drip pan filled with liquid...water, apple juice, wine, etc...when doing low and slow cooks. I know that it keeps the moisture high in the egg because the pan is simmering/boiling when I'm cooking at 235 grate temp.

Sounds like it's time for a head-to-head cookoff.

Canary · January 2012

Sounds like it's time for a head-to-head cookoff.

He'll "smoke" me.

Also have read that because water boils at 212 degrees, a water pan can be good to stabilize long cooks in the 225 to 250 range. Is this true?

bluegrasstiger · January 2012

I can't answer that...have to leave that to the experts to answer.

fishlessman · January 2012

i used to use the wsm and the kettle grill, the egg is much easier to use and produces pretty much the same results. with the wsm your losing more heat so the heat flow is actually higher across the meat, the higher heat flow means a dryer product so water is needed to be added to offset that. in the egg the heat flow is way down, less drying with the better heat retention. you can really crank an egg way down and bbq raised grid direct even in very cold weather, you wouldnt want to do that in a WSM. most go inderect as its just plain easier, and if you want you can add a water pan, oh the joys of cleaning a water pan

stike · January 2012

Water in a cooking environment does NOTHING to keep meat moist. Not at all

In a BGE or other charcoal grill, you may want something to block the direct radiant heat of the lump, and/or to act as a heat sink, helping keep temps somewhat stable

A waterpan can do this, but so can a platesetter or bricks or even a pan of sand

I use no water. But some do in order to keep drippings from burning, or for the heat sink. A platesetter works for me, but even a barrier of a shallow pan or tinfoil liner can block the direct heat

I hate to burst bubbles, but a moist cooking environment wont keep meat moist. And flavored liquids in it won't add flavor tothe meat in any noticeable amount.

Lot of myths in barbecue. The water pan is one of them

stilllaughing · January 2012

And to add to what Stike said, if have a pan of boiling liquid below your meat you are also steaming it.

ChokeOnSmoke · January 2012

I used a WSM as your brother does for around 8 years before I purchased my XL almost 2 years ago now. I can tell you that probably 1/2 the guys that use the WSM put sand in their water pans and then cover them with foil to avoid the mess. The water pan (water or sand) is simply an indirect method, not meant to put moisture into the environment. The WSM and the EGG both make excellent food. The main reason I switched to the EGG is that I do 75% of my BBQ in the dead of winter and the EGG handles the cold weather much better than the thin metal WSM did but also more versatile in baking, grilling, etc.

fishlessman · January 2012

well in the old days, thats how it was done, i put water in my water pan in my water smoker

)water smokers are a pain, they dont like cold, they are messy, hated cleaning up, you pretty much just cook on an egg, there isnt really any cleanup, and the egg gets used tons more during the year

Hokie_Smoker · January 2012

I approach it from a "very scientific" approach. Charleston, SC (hot & humid) feels a lot hotter to me at 100 than Phoenix (hot & dry) at 100. So I think adding a drip pan with water in it will make the meat feel that it is being cooked in Charleston instead of Phoenix. Probably just keeps the drippings from burning, but I remain a man of "science".

stilllaughing · January 2012

I would think a "man of science" knows that meat is dead and therefore "feels" nothing. LOL

stike · January 2012

The reason it feels hotter to you when it is humid is because you sweat to cool yourself, and you can't do that as well when it is humid

I admire a man of science too. But it is always good to know the science though

Water baths are good for holding temps around, say a custard or pate, to lower temps in a somewhat hotter oven (heat sink idea), but they dont keep the food moist.

To trot this gem out again: try cooking a breast of chicken in boiling water. Pull it out when the internal is 160 and compare it to grilled chicken at 160. Both moist. Now boil the chicken til it is 205. It will be dry, just as the grilled breast at 205 would be.

Surrounded by water, in a 100% 'moist' environment, that water did nothing to preserve moisture.

In fact, since water transfers heat so efficiently, your chicken breast boiled in water would get drier actually much quicker than if you roasted it at similar temps. Crazy, huh? Boil at 212, or roast at 212. The boiled meat will be drier and overcooked sooner if you cooked both for an equal time

You can still dry out meat in a supposedly moist environment. Only overcooking dries meat. Salt? Nope. High grill temps? Nope.what makes for dry meat is t a cook not paying attention and overcooking

Lit · January 2012

I just use a water pan to catch the drippings so they don't burn. I use the drippings for the base for my sauce after I reduce it and freeze it to get the fat off the top.

stilllaughing · January 2012

In my commercial smokers (3 Ole Hickory CTO's) I use water in the bottom of the cooking chamber, as recommended by the factory for evening out the heat reasons not moisture. Many large cookers have "hot" or "cool" spots The moisture in there helps keep the temps more consistant throughout. But with the design and make-up of the bge it's not needed.

Hokie_Smoker · January 2012

I would think a "man of science" knows that meat is dead and therefore "feels" nothing. LOL

Next you'll be saying that talking to the meat doesn't do anything either.

I also have proved "scientifically" that the lump starts better if the perfect amounts of Maker's Mark & ginger ale are present in my Dixie cup. Not my rules, those of the universe.

stilllaughing · January 2012

Maker's Mark & a dixie cup? C'mon Hokie_smoker. Show some class!

Flamethrower · January 2012

Time to fill the Red Solo Cup and cook

stike · January 2012

if the universe had any rules, one of them would be to send out a bolt of lighting when someone mixes whiskey/bourbon/scotch with ginger ale.

Canary · January 2012

if the universe had any rules, one of them would be to send out a bolt of lighting when someone mixes whiskey/bourbon/scotch with ginger ale.

Good posting.

stevesails · January 2012

And you can't put tonic in sapphire

stike · January 2012

^^and especially not into a good gin, either.

)

Baysidebob · January 2012

I gave away my Smokey Mountain after using the BGE. The purpose of water is a heat sink that never goes above 212 degrees, just add more water when needed. The sand trick doesn't do this. Once the sand is hot, it's hot. The problem with water is no crispy poultry skin. And the fat drips into water instead of burning up and adding that complex flavor. It's also a mess to clean. The BGE is far more"pure" bar-b-q. Of course the BGE is also far more expensive.

Theophan · January 2012

if the universe had any rules, one of them would be to send out a bolt of lighting when someone mixes whiskey/bourbon/scotch with ginger ale.

Many years ago a friend insisted that Wild Turkey and coca-cola (!) was her favorite drink, and it sounded like absolute heresy to me. At her insistence, I tried it... and was ashamed of myself to have to admit that it was actually pretty good (though I didn't repeat the test)! And when I learned just a few years ago that the Beatles (I was a devoted, almost religious follower in the '60s and '70s) drank rum and scotch and coke :-O I had to try it, and was again sort of ashamed of myself to have to admit that it was actually pretty good, and I have no doubt that when I was younger and liked sweeter drinks, I probably would have loved it.

I usually drink whisky, whether Scotch, Irish or Bourbon, neat or with a little water, occasionally Scotch and soda, but I will admit that I also enjoy "Rye and Ginger" (rye, or sometimes bourbon, and ginger ale).

And I disagree about the Sapphire -- I find its botanicals too sweet for me to want very often, and I stick with Tanqueray, but I've had Sapphire both in martinis and gin and tonic and, though I prefer Tanqueray, I think Sapphire's a nice change either way, and if all I have is Sapphire, I'd probably lean more toward gin and tonic than a martini. The sweetness of the tonic goes well with the sweetness of Sapphire. I like Sapphire martinis, but not often.

Theo

stike · January 2012

i don't disagree that it tastes good. i just find it a waste of good stuff. chocolate frosting tastes good, but i wouldn't add it to scotch either hahaha

Botch · January 2012

The purpose of water is a heat sink that never goes above 212 degrees, just add more water when needed. The sand trick doesn't do this.

Exactly. I've never used a WSM but used a $50 cheapo electric water smoker for many years. There was no rheostat on the power cord, just straight 110VDC into the heating coil. As long as there was water in the pan the whole cooker stayed at the correct temperature, but as soon as the pan dried up the temp would skyrocket.

Now, the science guy in me is wondering something else. Remember that scientific experiment posted here awhile back, about the moisture in the meat causing the "stall" in a low-n-slow cook of a big piece of meat? (the evaporation of the moisture in the meat cooled it, and it wasn't until the moisture was gone that the meat began again to rise in temperature; wish I could remember the name of the thread to repost it here...).

Well, if the meat is sitting in 100% humidity, there can be no surface evaporation and hence, no "stall" (I'm willing to bet this is the magic of braising). We can't create a perfect, 100%-humid environment inside the Egg, but we sure as heck can make it more humid, causing the meat to heat quicker just as the South Carolina vs. Tucson example given above. And adding a water pan is arguably easier than removing a large hot slab of meat to wrap it in foil (as someone tried with success) to finish cooking it.

Hmm, need to figure out an experiment to test this one out. :-$

gdenby · January 2012

2 things 2 move the thread waa-ay to the edge of the OP.

Couple of days ago, I mused about how a hot humid Egg interior might cook faster. A bit more research indicated otherwise. Tho' the higher humidity means the air in the Egg is holding lots of heat, the water vapor doesn't have as high a thermal conductivity as dry "air." Lots of humidity in an oven means the food heats up slower.

A search on "combi oven" will show that cooking at 100% humidity reduces product shrinkage. I infer that a lot of water remains in the meat mass. That is not to say that the meat has not dried out. I suppose that cooking at 100% humidity leaves lots of water near the protein. But the protein has still denatured. Despite the moisture, what gets chewed will be gummy.

lousubcap · January 2012

Having read the above, here's a link to the stall article mentioned-

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/craig-goldwyn/physicist-cracks-bbq-mystery_b_987719.html?icid=maing-grid10 don't pretend to have a dog in this fight but always looking for the promised land!

3littleribs · January 2012

The reason it feels hotter to you when it is humid is because you sweat to cool yourself, and you can't do that as well when it is humid

You sweat just as well when its humid. You sweat to regulate body temperature - by that sweat evaporating off of your skin thus cooling the body(evaporative cooling). This works great and is very efficent in a low humid environment like in the western states. Here in the south where the humidity can be very high (90-95%) theres so much moisture in the air the sweat does not evaporate as well and stays on your skin thus you dont have the same cooling effect. Thats why it feels hotter in a more wet than dry environment and weather services use a heat index that factors in humidity.

stevesails · January 2012

Heat index? I know is wind chill in Michigan

3littleribs · January 2012

Feeling for ya, suppose to be a high of 79 here tommorow and sunny.

The Benefits of a Water Pan, Convincing a Fellow BBQer

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