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what brand of knives...

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Comments

  • LitLit Posts: 3,493
     
    Their not really waves its the burr of the knife you are trying to get to srand up straight again. The round rods place all the pressure in a small area where you are trying to get the blade to stand up. All that pressure makes it bend over so you are doing what they call chasing the burr (bending it to one side from the pressure then back to the other and so forth due to the pressure all being in the small area provided from the honing rod. The stone helps spread the pressure over a larger surface so you actually get the burr to stand up). Stones are great for sharpening at 500/1000 grit but they sell 6000 grit stones that feel smooth to the touch but are great for honing.
    ahhhhh, interesting to know about "chasing the burr" - that makes perfect logical sense - and that's good to know. 

    BTW, just to make sure I understand what you use - you're saying you use a fine grit stone rather than a steel? 

    And what exactly does a barber's strop do? 

    Finally, can you list what is the proper / preferred method & tools? 

    (sorry for all the questions - but 1 of the Xmas presents was an 8-piece Shun Ken Onion set, so I gotta know)!!!


    :D
    I use a King brand 1000/6000 grit stone. Maybe twice a year I use the 1000 grit side and once or twice a month the 6000 grit side (really depends on use and only takes a couple passes on the stone). I got this from kramerknives.com for $50. I didn't get a holder or anything I just wet a hand towel and fold it in half and sit the stone on it on the counter so it doesn't slip. I also recommend a gold stone to clean your stone for the couple bucks it costs. I got a leather strop from highland hardware for like $15 and it just finishes off the blade and really smooths it out. Basically its polishing your blade.
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  • If you are really into sharpening, check out the tormek system. It's a slow speed water bath wheel with a leather strop wheel on the other side. I've seen them at woodshows, but I just can't afford one yet. It does planer knives, kitchen knives, scissors, chisels, etc. I do have the Grizzly version, but it's not as good.
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  • gdenbygdenby Posts: 4,399
    To take the thread a little farther afield...

    As I was working towards a better knife, and trying to improve the edge on the knives I had, I got an Edge Pro Apex, and about a 20x magnifying visor so I could inspect what was happening when I sharpened. Working each side, I can usually remove the wire burr. Then a little stropping will polish the edge.

    I bought a whole bunch of knives at 2nd hand stores, and worked on them till they could at least slice paper, and some, shave hair. I had one blade that could shave, but would only cut 3 slices of pork loin before dulling. I have a pretty good 40+ yr old Sabatier/Hoffritz. I tried taking the edge to 14 degrees per side. It just won't hold it. So I take it to 18, and its pretty good.

    I've got a Hattori and a Kikuichi, as well as an unusual 6" from Spyderco. They are wonderful to use, but its hard to keep that unbelievable sharpness.
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  • Y'all should check out cartercutlery.com.  Hand made knives here in the states in the traditional Japanese process.  Great videos (check out YouTube) and sharpening supplies.  His techniques produce exceptionally sharp edges, he calls them scary sharp.  I have his videos and the 1000 and 6000 grit stones and no hair on my left hand or arm LOL.  He has some low end handled knives priced about the same as Henkels last time I checked. 

    Another option for carbon knives are the Old Hickory brand.  No dishwasher, need to be hand washed and oiled but will give you and incredibly sharp edge easily.
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  • stikestike Posts: 15,597
    Before you wander into the esoterica of japanese shuns and sharpening systems and damascus and carbo steel etc etc just spend 80 bucks on a decent middle of the road german stainless forged knife. Why? Because it is not cheap, but not expensive. You can learn to sharpen it without screwing it up. Because you really don't "need" any knife beyond an 8" chef's knife.

    And then, if/when you have outgrown it, you can drop a few hundred on a (fake) damascus or shun (very few are actually damascus to the core), buy a sharpening system, and put your name on Kramer's waiting list

    But til then, a decent forged knife will perform better than anythijg you have used before

    Gotta walk before you run. I find the recommendations for higher end stuff a bit like telling someone they should get a Mercedes for their first real car.
    ed egli avea del cul fatto trombetta -Dante
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  • Wise words, Stike.  You are exactly right.

    This thread took two forks, one for those looking for their first knife, and the other for those who are really into knives and sharpening.  I think the first time knife buyer can tell the difference, learn the pros and cons of buying a knife, but also can learn where the love for fine knives and sharpening can take them.

    It is much like firearms.  You can buy a basic Sears .30-.30 and kill a deer, or you can buy a Browning BAR Mark II and achieve the same results.  But, the difference is in the appreciation of the craftsmanship and artistry.  Again, though.  If you can't sharpen your knives, get the cheapest ones you can find and throw them away when they get dull.


    __________________________________________

    Dripping Springs, Texas.
    Just west of Austintatious

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  • stikestike Posts: 15,597
    I think sharpening is the one thing a person looking for a knife should really look into first. I know that i had no clue about sharpening, and really could have used a good intro to it.

    Good point V.I.

    I agree about artistry, too. Things can get expensive quickly. If someone appreciates their forged cheapo wusties, and takes care of them, they will certainly find themselves drooling over (and perhaps buying) something much more high end.

    I love the kramers. Can't afford them. But love them hahaha
    ed egli avea del cul fatto trombetta -Dante
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  • LitLit Posts: 3,493
    The carbon 210mm gyuto I recommended is only $60. That and a $50 stone with 1000/6000 grit.
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  • IrishDevlIrishDevl Posts: 1,390
    My three favorite knives (in order) are:
    1. Carico (professional collection - fully forged) - best knife I have ever used by far, 2. Henkel Twin Cuisine (Sandoku) and 3. My china town $15 meat clever.  Besides that I enjoy my 5 star Henkel long knife - and the collection and block are not bad.  
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  • what type of steel do I look for when purchasing a knife? Stainless? High carbon? Looking for b/day gifts for my 2 sons who btw own eggs!
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  • LukeDLukeD Posts: 3
    Anybody here use grohmann knives?
    Made in Canada they are some of the best knives in the world
    I know butchers who only use grohmann
    They make custom wood handles too
    Check them out
    http://www.grohmannknives.com/
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  • gdenbygdenby Posts: 4,399
    what type of steel do I look for when purchasing a knife? Stainless? High carbon? Looking for b/day gifts for my 2 sons who btw own eggs!
    If their knife handling background is like most folks I know, go with stainless, or at least a stain resistant steel. Carbon steel does require more care. With a life of using stainless, I must remind myself to keep a cloth on hand to wipe down carbon steel blades, and not let them sit for half an hour on the counter while I do something else. Or find that my wife has tossed one into the sink with the dishes.
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  • Little StevenLittle Steven Posts: 27,075
    Agreed! I have a couple of stainless Wustoffs that always work when my high carbons are messed up.

    Steve 

    Caledon, ON

     

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  • LitLit Posts: 3,493

    I have never seen the slightest sign of rust on any of my knives and I have high carbon. Its pretty easy just rinse it and dry it after use. I do that with all my knives not just the carbon. I guess it depends on how you are going to take care of the knives but I know my carbon knives will hold an edge much longer than any wustoff.

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  • Little StevenLittle Steven Posts: 27,075

    I have never seen the slightest sign of rust on any of my knives and I have high carbon. Its pretty easy just rinse it and dry it after use. I do that with all my knives not just the carbon. I guess it depends on how you are going to take care of the knives but I know my carbon knives will hold an edge much longer than any wustoff.

    I agree totally. Unfortunately some of us have kitchen "helpers" that have no idea about the care and feeding of high carbon knives. I have a ceramic "steel", waterstones and steels. With the Wustoffs I can generally get a decent edge back with the steel,

    Steve 

    Caledon, ON

     

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  • TUTTLE871TUTTLE871 Posts: 1,316

    You can not go wrong with the Henkel 4 Stars, they have great balance and weight to them, and my thumb can tell you they hold a great edge to them as well. But the last paid program I saw had a Ginsu cut a beer can and then a tomato.

    I would recommend going to your local kitchen accessories store and testing the knives out. Most places now will give you a potato and a butcher block and let you create your own masterpiece.

    Good Luck

    "Hold my beer and watch this S##T!"

    LARGE BGE DALLAS TX.

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  • I have Henkels 5-star and Wusthof Classic and I prefer my Whusthof 8" Wide by far of any of my other knives. It is best to buy them one by one as you see fit because then you can mix-n-match and buy only knives that you will actually use. I'll probably get some Shun next.
    LBGE, Weber OTG w/ Rotisserie, Weber Genesis S-330, Chargriller Duo, AR-15, AK-47
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  • Shun Premier is outstanding.  Damascus steel with a 17° edge.  It doesn't get better than that.
    __________________________________________

    Dripping Springs, Texas.
    Just west of Austintatious

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  • LitLit Posts: 3,493
    I want the premier 8" chef really bad.
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  • mwraulstmwraulst Posts: 131

    For kitchen knives i would go for shun or global, both are incredible for home use. For steak knives i would go with laguiole.

    Its just that simple.

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  • billyraybillyray Posts: 1,120
    I like my Shun Classic knives, nice weight and comfortable handles. I also use my Forschner knives with rosewood handles a lot,( 10" cimeter, 8" steak and 6" curved boning)  I've had these for over 45 years, from my meat cutting days and they are as functional today as they were back then.
    Felton, Ca. 2-LBGE, 1-Small and waiting on a mini
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  • Mwraulst.  Thanks for the info.  I'm looking for steak knives.  Shuns are very expensive and the Laguiole looks good.  From the picture, they don't appear to be serrated.  I don't want a serrated knife.

    I have been afraid of French knives because brand names are not protected, and imitators abound, using the same brand name.  

    The Laguiole knives I liked have a BEE designation.  Do you know if that is the "real thing"?

    __________________________________________

    Dripping Springs, Texas.
    Just west of Austintatious

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  • stikestike Posts: 15,597
    edited January 2012
    i would buy one knife, and ride that for a while before you decide what levels of esoterica you personally need to reach.

    a simple well balanced german forged knife is going to be an excellent starter.  after that, you can go further afield if you want.  like cars, guns, and other things which people collect, you should determine what your needs are first, then expand on it if you want.  if some of the terms you hear make no sense right now, all the better reason to not rush out and buy 'pretty'.

    fwiw, a lot of the (in fact, i think all) of the gorgeous damascus baldes are nothing more than a thin veneer of damascus.  they aren';t getting any of the benefit of what damascus steel is actually FOR.  f you want a true damascus, a blend of flexibility and hardness, you would need to really pay much more than what the affordable ones cost.

    an 80 dollar chef's knife from any of the typical makers will suit most people.  they have been fine tuned to cover just about every issue a user might want.  they roll well (rounded profile to the blade), they tend to be well balanced (full tang with a bolster at the handle end), and, for someone starting out, they can be sharpened easily and kept in good shape without much fuss.

    after you outgrow it, and decide you prefer single-bevel or 'x-' degree bevel, or some specific hardness, you'll then know exactly what YOU want. 

    buy a daily driver, not bottom of the market, and learn how to handle it on the straightaway, and on curves, and whether you like understeer.  THEN step up to what YOU consider top of the line if you want.

    there's a practical side and a personal side to these sort of things.  if you are unfamiliar, probably best to start simple, and cover the practical.  a henckels/wustof type forged full tang bolstered knife with a forgiving double bevel, which you can sharpen pretty easily, is a good start for a lot of people looking to step up from the 89-bucks-for-10-knives-chicago-cutlery-set-hey-got-for-their-first-apartment
    :)
    ed egli avea del cul fatto trombetta -Dante
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  • gdenbygdenby Posts: 4,399
    fwiw, a lot of the (in fact, i think all) of the gorgeous damascus baldes are nothing more than a thin veneer of damascus.  they aren';t getting any of the benefit of what damascus steel is actually FOR.  f you want a true damascus, a blend of flexibility and hardness, you would need to really pay much more than what the affordable ones cost.
    Yes,most of the "damascus" is just a protective cladding of softer metal over a hard core. If you have the $$$$, and the time to wait for a real damascus blade, here's a nice one:

    http://www.devinthomas.com/images/gallery/CustomKnives/5261A8DC-5056-A345-0C7BFD895CAEEE66.jpg

    Not at all just for show. It is owned by a chef/proprietor, and sees kitchen use.

    On the original topic, a fellow I knew was building a set of Henckel's Twins by shopping a store called T.J. Maxx, where they would occasionally show up. They were pretty nice knives. He did, however, have a very steady hand, and a couple of DMT diamond sharpening plates. The edge he put on them was quite impressive, tho' the blades were a little brittle.

    I am less favorably inclined toward the Wusthof, Henckel's, etc blades. I've used an old Sabatier for about 40 years. It has much less of a belly. I've never done much in the way of rocking cutting. More push and draw cuts. So going toward a Japanese knife made a lot more sense.
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  • stikestike Posts: 15,597
    It has much less of a belly. I've never done much in the way of rocking cutting. More push and draw cuts. So going toward a Japanese knife made a lot more sense.
    good point.  this is the kind of thing i think an 80 dollar experiment can tell a person.  meaning: buy a decent knife and discover what works best for you.

    i 'learned' (still not very good) to cut with a knife that had a belly, and so when i got the santoku (which is very flat) i couldn't easily switch to the push and draw cut.

    tjmaxx (up here we also have Marshall's which is i think actually owned by T.J. Maxx) also carries knives.  good way to save 20 or 30 bucks on a standard wusthof or whatever. good call.

    i do believe you can go to williams sonoma and actually try knives on their cutting block.  i remember once seeing a customer cutting a carrot... 
    :))
    ed egli avea del cul fatto trombetta -Dante
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  • mwraulstmwraulst Posts: 131


     

    The Laguiole knives I liked have a BEE designation.  Do you know if that is the "real thing"?



    You know it's hard to tell. To be honest i would be careful about ordering these from anyone but a known chef's store or the company directly. It seems that they use different woods, bones, antlers, metals in each years models, or if not different wood the styles vary slightly. If you can get ahold of an old catelog and match it to whatever is found on the internet, you probably stand a decent chance. As always watch the return policy and check the legitimacy of their business. i've never personally bought knives offline bc i wanted to handle them all first.
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  • danv23danv23 Posts: 463
    Wife got me a set of Globals. Had a set of Henkels Pro-S. No comparison. Globals blow them away and they are the best knives I've ever used!!

    The Dude: Yeah, well, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man.

    Walter Sobchak: [shouting] Has the whole world gone crazy? Am I the only one around here who gives a **** about the rules? Mark it zero!

    Cumming, GA
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  • danv23danv23 Posts: 463

    The Dude: Yeah, well, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man.

    Walter Sobchak: [shouting] Has the whole world gone crazy? Am I the only one around here who gives a **** about the rules? Mark it zero!

    Cumming, GA
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  • TUTTLE871TUTTLE871 Posts: 1,316

    After reading all this I think it comes down to what you like and what fits best in your hand. It can be the 200 dollar chef knife that makes coffee for you when you are done carving a turkey, or the POS Target $5.00 special that carves a brisket for a family of 10 and makes everyone happy.

    Just saying a knife is what you make of it.

    "Hold my beer and watch this S##T!"

    LARGE BGE DALLAS TX.

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  • Thanks for everyones' comments! That was wonderful! May head over to T.J.Max later today.
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