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mapp torches may explode

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Comments

  • Gator Bait Gator Bait Posts: 5,244
     
    Maybe Zippy will chime in on that. :laugh:


    Blair


     
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  • The Naked WhizThe Naked Whiz Posts: 7,780
    I don't think so. I think what is relevant is where he was holding the torch since that is where the force is being applied. If he was holding it by the torch and not the tank, he only have a lever arm of 6". (No jokes :laugh: )
    The Naked Whiz
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  • Gator Bait Gator Bait Posts: 5,244
     
    When I was a little boy I had a baby sitter that told me that cranberry juice would give me cancer! I didn't buy into that one either. I am the type that if you say the sky is falling I have to go outside and see. I may get my Darwin Award yet! :laugh:


    Blair


     
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  • Gator Bait Gator Bait Posts: 5,244
     
    Fishlessman, I have forgotten to thank you for bringing this to our attention. MAPP torches are not to be taken lightly and they ARE dangerous. All of us are better off with a good reminder of that and that we can not use to much caution. Thank You.


    Blair


     
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  • If you are using a canister of pressurized volatile gas near a flame and you allow the nozzle to hit something hard enough to fracture said nozzle or the canister, then you are well within the realm of negligent use.
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  • stikestike Posts: 15,597
    they aren't clear where that force needs tobe applied, so it's not possible givn their information to say where the force needs to be applied and how much that force needs to be.

    they mention a force applied at the tip, by a person holding the bottle. but they don't say whether the 15 foot-lbs is the force required at the tip to break the neck of the bottle, or whether the force at the tip needs to generate 15 foot-pounds AT the neck of the bottle (which would be a 30 foot pound force at the tip).

    either way, my point is that it is a not very large force. it's either a five pound or ten pound force from a three foot distance (arm).
    ed egli avea del cul fatto trombetta -Dante
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  • tach18ktach18k Posts: 1,607
    In over 30 years of plumbing and using Mapp gas, never had one problem. Propane torches have flooding propane and poured flame everywhere.
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  • NC-CDNNC-CDN Posts: 703
    tach18k wrote:
    In over 30 years of plumbing and using Mapp gas, never had one problem. Propane torches have flooding propane and poured flame everywhere.

    What does that mean? Is there an increased hazard with these things? I'll throw mine away if there is a risk to my house and family. I know there is a risk with most anything, but I mean an increased measurable risk.
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  • tach18ktach18k Posts: 1,607
    You can turn a mapp gas torch upside down with a the correct torch head and it wont flood out the tip, a propane torch tiped upsaide down will flood propane. Understand this means when the torch is open whether it is lit of not. Generally it is all safe, unless you toss a tank in a fire pit, then move very fast and run and hide, it will blow.
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  • stikestike Posts: 15,597
    let's let the lawyers decide that, shall we? ;)

    but in my mind, and i could very well be on a jury, hitting a pipe isn't negligent...

    and if the can breaks before the designed fracture joint, then something's wrong.
    ed egli avea del cul fatto trombetta -Dante
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  • Lawn RangerLawn Ranger Posts: 5,466
    Well, that settles that! Recently, mine has become loose at the mount and I've noticed it being kinda funky. Think I'll scrap the Mapp.

    Thanks, Michael.
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  • RRPRRP Posts: 15,252
    Fear of holding the tank upside down over a hot burning flame is why I bought this style with the 3 foot hose.
    IMG_1181.jpg

    OTOH I only used it 2 or 3 times at most as it still bothered me!
    Ron
    Dunlap, IL
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  • FidelFidel Posts: 10,168
    But what if it is held rigidly in the hand, without bending the wrist or elbow, then the pivot point becomes the shoulder. The amount of force would decrease considerably.
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  • The Naked WhizThe Naked Whiz Posts: 7,780
    You are confusing force and torque. By definition the torque is measured at the point of rotation, while the force applied is measured at the point where the force is applied. So, 30 pounds (not foot-pounds) would have to be applied at the tip (assuming a 6-inch lever arm) to result if 15 foot-pounds of torque being applied at the neck. I'd say a 30 pound force is quite substantial if the torch is used as intended and not as a fire poker. But I suppose a dropped torch landing at the appropriate angle on the tip might be problematic. But I never drop things, cough cough.....
    The Naked Whiz
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  • FidelFidel Posts: 10,168
    But what if the nozzle impact happened when the device was not in use (i.e. fell off a shelf and the wife/child/other person simply placed it back on the shelf). The impact from the fall could be enough to weaken the joint and the next time the user fired it up - kablooey.

    Hypothetically, of course. I swear stike, I never dropped yours from the cabinet where you showed me the shag bark hickory.
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  • The Naked WhizThe Naked Whiz Posts: 7,780
    No, I don't think so. If you assume the tip is being held rigidly, the lever arm is from the tip to the point where the force is being applied to torch, i.e., where the hand is holding the torch.
    The Naked Whiz
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  • The Naked WhizThe Naked Whiz Posts: 7,780
    BBQ Guru also sells a Golf Club hose and stainless steel burner that you can insert into the charcoal, FWIW.
    The Naked Whiz
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  • FidelFidel Posts: 10,168
    And there's the difference. The torch could be held by the end of the bottle and not rigidly by the tip/trigger housing. That is one of the complaints on that web site, that the lock button creates that ability.

    In the grand scheme of things, it doesn't matter. But if you swing it from the shoulder for a 12" arc and strike the tip on a hard surface that impact will create more shock to the tip/bottle junction than if it were swung on a 12" arc from the wrist at the same speed.
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  • fishlessmanfishlessman Posts: 16,924
    ive had problems twice with mapp, you never had one problem yet :whistle: i work with some really high pressures, have never had a problem, a customer here had a vessel explode after a shutdown where the vessel was checked over extensively during its yearly inspection, it took the whole building down, helicopters were sent in to look for the pieces, a 50 ton bridgecrane was never found :blink: things sometimes just happen. ill still use mapp from time to time but ill look it over a little more closely before i do and maybe it might not be recommended to light an egg with a mapp torch after having a few ;)
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  • fishlessmanfishlessman Posts: 16,924
    just keep an eye on the hose, it may start to crack over time. i know the harbor freight weed burner had a recall about ten years back with the hoses failing as they aged
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  • fishlessmanfishlessman Posts: 16,924
    heres how to make your own, just break the torch head off the bottle with your hands and attach a hose to it :whistle: :laugh:

    http://www.sculpture.net/community/showthread.php?p=94868
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  • The Naked WhizThe Naked Whiz Posts: 7,780
    I'm not sure I buy their argument about holding the tank. Regardless of where you hold the tank, the torque applied to the neck is always going to be the force applied to the tip multiplied by the distance from the tip to the neck. The placement of the nad on the tank would only matter if the tip were being held rigidly and the force was being applied to the tank. Obviously this is more complicated than we can comprehend as the whole system of arm and tank is a compound lever and neither end of the lever is actually being held rigid. Whatever....
    The Naked Whiz
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  • fishlessmanfishlessman Posts: 16,924
    im not sure it matters where you hold the lit torch when you drop it on the stone patio and it explodes :laugh:
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  • stikestike Posts: 15,597
    didn't mean to get into a debate.

    just saying, the force at the tip doesn't need to be anything outside the range of reasonable possibility for the break at the shoulder to occur. lots of force created by a three foot arm hitting the tip of the bottle.

    doesn't even take that.
    i have a propane bottle ten feet away from me with a bent shoulder, and nothing happened other than the thing fell off the work bench and the head hit the floor first.

    find me your thirty foot pounds of torque in that equation ;)
    ed egli avea del cul fatto trombetta -Dante
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  • fishlessmanfishlessman Posts: 16,924
    im not one to say the sky is falling but eggs on wood decks is one ill always warn folks of. ive had the deck on fire from an egg on it so its off the deck now, others have never had a deck fire from an egg so its safe for them B)
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  • stikestike Posts: 15,597
    hard to see, but she is bent.

    propane.jpg

    i actually emailed fishless earlier and asked what he thinks. coupla cheap yankees are inclined to use it. hasn't exploded yet :laugh:
    ed egli avea del cul fatto trombetta -Dante
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  • Gator Bait Gator Bait Posts: 5,244
     
    All to true. I have a concrete slab and aluminum exterior on mobile home so I don't worry to much there. Reminders of these things are good, we can so easily get complacent with safety a wake up call is a smart idea.

    Blair

     
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  • LDDLDD Posts: 1,225
    wow... I don't use the torch... either bge starter cubes or oil/paper towel.

    I have been thinking about going the torch route. maybe not anymore
    context is important :)
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  • thirdeyethirdeye Posts: 7,428
    Here is a link to a machinists forum where I saw the same discussion last year.

    http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net/showthread.php?t=43890
    Happy Trails
    ~thirdeye~

    Barbecue is not rocket surgery
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  • MemphisQueMemphisQue Posts: 610
    Think I will continue to stick with the BGE electric starter. Cooking on an egg is not meant to be instant and I can wait 5-10 minutes for a good fire. Scary pics.
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