Chicken skin and smoke question

hardboiled

I've done a couple of spatchcocked chickens (raised grill, direct heat, 350-400 degrees). Just before I put the chicken on the grill I toss in some (maybe a handful) of applewood chips. Put the chicken on and leave it alone.

I find that the skin winds up tough, similar in texture to a low and slow smoke on a bullet smoker. The fat renders out to the point that it is chewy - not crisp. I don't think I have observed the same thing without the smoke but I can't see why a little smoke would make such a difference.

Scratchin' my head on this one.

stike

it's the high moisture environment that's doing it.

the egg doesn't dry out food as much as other metal cookers

fishlessman

lately ive been starting skin side down, skins been much better for me. these are only breasts but it would be the same for a spatchcock.

Richard Fl

Try fewer chips, poultry sucks up smoke. I do mine skin
side down 10 minutes or so then turn. Usually ready 1 hour or so depending on size of bird. I have spatchcocked whole turkey breasts and they turn out great.

fishlessman

should have asked, but your not soaking those chips first, are you. not needed or desired in an egg

Columi

I thought I had read people do Chicken indirect at 350 and end up with nice crisp skin..?

PhilsGrill

Always flip so skin side is down the last 15-20 mins for crispy skin.

fishlessman

lots of little things help crisp skin, im a fan of direct cooks and dont cook chicken inderect. those that are might be drying the skin in the fridge for a few hours to a day before cooking, or lifting the skin off the meat before going on the grill. i like to get the fat under the skin cooking before flipping it over with a direct cook, i work on the skin first so im not over shooting final temps. just my way, lots of ways to cook a chicken.

Essex County

This is a common experience with chicken on the egg. As PhilsGrill suggests, you can flip the bird (haha) and get some crispness that way. I've also heated a cast iron pizza pan on the stove and placed it on the unflipped bird. It crispens the skin pretty effectively.

stike

it's relatively rare to see a pair of breasts where each one is the exact same size. nice.

Misippi Egger

You ARE talking about chickens, right? :evil: :woohoo:

hardboiled

I'll try skin side down but it's not a crispy vs. flubbery chicken skin problem that one might get from a moist environment. Too much of the chicken fat in the skin is rendering so all you have left is, well, skin - think really, really thin skin with no fat left. :(

And no, I am not soaking my woodchips

stike

the crispy skin you get is when the fat has rendered and virtually fried the skin.

high heat will also do it.

there are a number of ways to get crispy skin from chicken in the egg

hardboiled

This is beyond what typical crispy skin involves. I may be new to egging but I have been cooking for a long time. I have roasted many, many near perfect chickens so I know what chicken skin is about. This is papery thin, tough skin - exactly the same as I have seen from a bullet smoker but without the low and slow.

Anyone have any ideas?

stike

we have ideas. just apparently we don't have the right ones.

you have been cooking for years.we have too, on a BGE, which seems to be the difference here.

i'll just say that this is a common complaint with people new to the egg, and it is generally a result of the high moisture in the cooking environment.


sorry we weren't any help

normally we do pretty good.

BullyC

Hi fishlessman

I like you love direct chicken, was raised on it
by father cooking on a big 55 gal drum. Never did
acquire taste for indirect chicken. tastes weird, even
though probably a little more moist, but negliable.
I get my egg to 300, put a mustard slather on chicken,
then season well, just turn every 3 to 5 minutes or so
until almost done, then glaze with sweet baby rays,
put off to side, shut down egg and let glaze in for 10
minutes. I don't see a need for a rasied grid at 350
when can cook at normal height at 300. My skin is not overly crisp, but not rubber like a indirect low temp
cook. I could try a little more heat to crisp but worry about burning. I am after the meat anyway LOL
have a great day BullyC

[Deleted User]

I think we all like the skin "crispy" but we all might have different expectations as to what that is.

I see lots of posts with blackened chicken or chicken parts which doesn't count as "crispy" in my book, but some people think it's great that way!

in the 3 years I've had my Egg (time flies, doesn't it?)my chicken skin is either edible or not edible-never delicious and never "crispy" as I would define it.

I did get both "delicious" and "crispy" skin once- it was my first Duck. Cooked low and slow (indirect)for I don't remember how long and then cranked it up to 400-450 to finish. Skin like you wouldn't believe!

so until my chicken comes out like that, I'll keep trying! I think 500* chicken came the closest. Maybe indirect with a high temp (500) finish
or raised direct with regular flipping.

Bottom line: I don't know. I'm still lookin'!

hardboiled

This is beyond what typical crispy skin involves. I may be new to egging but I have been cooking for a long time. I have roasted many, many near perfect chickens so I know what chicken skin is about. This is papery thin, tough skin - exactly the same as I have seen from a bullet smoker but without the low and slow.

Anyone have any ideas?

hardboiled

Sorry about the repost - PC trouble.

Stike, I certainly meant no offense and if I have offended you I sincerely apologize! I have found an incredible amount of information on this forum. The people on this list are clearly eggsperts.

I have had my egg for a couple months now and I have used it extensively. Everything comes out perfect (or near perfect) unless I royally screw up. This is why I am so perplexed. It am sure I am doing something wrong here because the skin is inedible and I haven't heard anyone suggesting that their chicken skin is this lousy.

I have done a couple roasted whole chickens indirect on the egg in a roasting pan as well as cornish hens (much like you would in an oven) at around 425 without additional smoke and they have turned out brilliantly. Just the barest hint of smoke. The fact that I know I can get the skin to work in the egg is why I am so perplexed.

fishlessman

it took along time for me to get chicken right on an egg, alot of experimenting. low and slow thighs raised grid with a half filled box or less seems the easiest to get right. regulate with the lower vent, get rid of the daisy seems to help, drying the skin first. slide a sage leaf under the skin. lots of little tricks that i never needed on my old kettle grill. your skin will crisp up better if you start the cook upside down, the fat liquifies and the skin sags/pulls away from the meat which gets it away from the moisture of the meat that adds to the rubberyness problem. another trick is to cook the chicken and take it off the grill, place a pizza stone up high and bring the egg to 500 degrees and then slide the chicken back under the very hot stone, the closeness to the stone will help crisp it up. for some reason spatchcocked breasts come out better for me than split breasts. its going to take some experimenting, i think its one of the harder cooks in an egg though everyone says its the easiest, i was pretty picky with chicken when coming off a kettle grill, but chicken is better now, youll have to work at ut more.

stike

i guess my big point, bob, is that there are a million ways on the fourm here that we have addressed "crispy chicken skin", and that we have gotten it plenty crispy. but your point is well taken, that no matter how "crispy" we get it, it isn't going to be as crispy as the old electric oven's version.

i think we are in agreement. my feeling, after a few hundred chickens or so (hahah) is that i can get crispy skin, but it's not as thin and dried as the stuff in an oven. and i have to believe it's because of the ambient moisture in the egg. i never got steam burns off any other type of grill, but sometimes there is so much moisture, you get a cloud of steam (like when doing veggies).

we've developed a number of work-arounds for chicken (overnight uncovered in the fridge to dry out the skin; separating the skin and adding oil or butter under it and/or on top of it; cooking it high in the dome for some radiant bounce from the ceramic; going low and slow to dry it out; going skin-down; doing it at high heat indirect ala Max and Jaques Pepin). so i shake my head a little when the dude asks our thoughts, then says "nah, yer all wrong. keep trying"

hahaha

how'd you do the duck? like fishless does? i gotta do duck. last time i par-cooked it to render the fat (to save it), then pan seared it. would like to just toss it on, but that's a lotta fat in the fire. indirect with drip pan, low temps, long cook?

[Deleted User]

I'll check my notes and get back to you, but I think I did what Fishless said to do. It was low and slow for longer than I expected, that's why I cranked it up to finish. I had already missed supper and wanted to make sure it was done before I went to bed! :laugh:

No one in my house likes duck except for me. So I'll probably never make it again.

I tell you though, I BELIEVE that I will get that perfect skin on an egged chicken! I maqy even buy a bunch of small chickens and cook 'em every day until I figure it out!

This is one of those times that I feel like Larry Fine looking for the water shutoff: "I'll find that thing if it kills me!" :laugh:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s8-PlnJ3kkk&feature=PlayList&p=84B8213D700114ED&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=51

hardboiled

Hi Bob,

That's what I think I'm going to do - cook chicken every day until either I figure it out or my wife threatens to leave me.

Tonight I'm going to try without smoke, direct heat, raised grill, olive oil, salt and pepper 10 minutes skin side down and then flip it to finish. If that works, tomorrow I'll add smoke back in and see if that changes anything.

Thanks all!

[Deleted User]

let me know how it works out.
seriously!

FSUScotsman

I guess it's not the "normal" way and may be considered "cheating", but if I just give my chicken a light dusting of cornstarch. Not much mind you, just a little all over before I put anything else on it, unless I'm rubbing it in. In that case it goes on after. I've tried other ways, and as suggested, if I don't cornstarch, I'll crank the heat and go skin side down at the end. I've never tried it at the beginning.

Charleston Dave

Definitely keep records, and let us know the results!

fishlessman

i dont go by time, i cook skin side down til its tanned real good and you can see the grease bubbling away under the skin. then flip. the breast meat seems to get juicier this way as well. maybe that bubbling is juice from the meat steaming back up into the chicken