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Sorry folks: Another gasket thread...

GrillerGriller Posts: 87
edited November -1 in EggHead Forum
Yes indeed, another gasket thread. Sorry everyone...

Three weeks ago I took all of the great advice posted on this wonderful forum and installed a new gasket. Please believe me when I say I did not do a half a$$ed job on the install - I threw both cheeks into it! On the removal of the old gasket there was not a trace of old glue or felt to be found. I used the 3M Super 77 glue for the adhesive. Also, I took my time and made sure I did not stretch the new high heat gasket given to me by my beloved BBQ storefront (BBQ Outfitters). I left the egg alone for a week which was harder than removing all the glue and felt from the old gasket. I did a pilot standalone burn for about four hours that did not exceed 300F. The next day I did 12 hours worth of slow-n-low. Throughout the week I had several cooks but none ever exceeded 400F. Friday I decided to kick it up a notch and cooked a pair of NY Strips (they were the high point of my whole week!). The temp got away from me at one point and touched 600F for several minutes prior to putting the steaks on but I eased it back to 500F. Each time I opened the egg I was give a cautious eye to my gaskets The gasket was performing beautifully!

Today my wife begged me for an egg pizza as it has been a month since she's had one and is suffering from withdrawals. I figured I had about 25-30hrs at temps above 200F on the new gasket so I went for it. After about 10min at 600F the glue melted and the gasket fell off. The difference was that I never had the platesetter in place for direct heat for the other cooks. I'm convinced the platesetter is responsible for the early demise of my last gasket and quite possibly the premature failure this go around. To be clear, the gasket itself did not fail this time but rather the glue. There was such a strong smell of the burned glue accompanied by a fair amount of smoke from the gasket area that we were afraid to eat the pizza. We had take away pizza instead. :(

So there you have it. I'm contemplating my next move but was curious if others have suffered a similar fate. Was it too early to have a high heat cook like that? Is the egg really viable at high heat with the place setter set to direct? I ask because the flames seem to be drawn outward toward the gasket. Should I consider finding an industrial epoxy?

If you've made it this far, thanks for being my shoulder to cry on. ;)

Comments

  • fieroguyfieroguy Posts: 777
    Re-install using hi-temp silicone (Permatex) and you will have no more problems,

    Mike
    30833
  • loco_engrloco_engr Posts: 3,673
    Dam I feel for you . . . just put a new gasket on my dome Thursday with the same glue and haven't used it since. If this goes in the toilet, I'll try what Sparky did (see earlier post today).
    Keep us posted what you do next. Thanks
  • Bobby-QBobby-Q Posts: 1,993
    Did you have the plate setter legs up or down?
  • Jersey DougJersey Doug Posts: 458
    I blame the Plate Setter for the demise of the first gasket in our Small. I had a dozen or more cooks at temperatures up to 600º with no issues. The first time I set it up with the Plate Setter for a pizza cook at 550º it badly burned the gasket everywhere but where it was shielded by the legs of the Plate Setter.

    I've come up with a better indirect cooking arrangement for pizza with the 12" BGE pizza stone up on the tall GrateMates and a 9" pot lid down on the GrateMates ring to deflect the heat. I've also reduced the cooking temperature to 450º. Together these changes have increased the life expectancy of the gasket from hours to weeks. I still have a problem with the gasket burning out in the back left quadrant because I haven't been able to get a uniform gap between the lid and the body of the Egg. But that's a topic for another time.

    The Small currently has no gasket, and I had no trouble with 550º cook earlier this evening.
  • GrillerGriller Posts: 87
    I had the legs down with the grate on top and a pizza pan on top of that. :)
  • Hey Griller-

    Use the high temp silicone from the auto parts store...much easier than the 3M 77 spray. Cheaper too. I put the new gasket on yesterday and grilled steaks tonight...Had her up to 600* with no problems (yet). Hope this helps.
  • SalguodSalguod Posts: 130
    Hmmm… I just don’t know. :S Did you install a felt gasket or a nomex gasket? How did you apply the Super 77? What was the ambient temperature? I just don’t understand why your new gasket failed so quickly. I have given my nomex gasket installed with Super 77 much more abuse than you describe, yet it is still in fine shape.

    I agree that the plate setter could be the problem and I usually use mine feet up now. But my nomex/Super 77 gasket survived several high temperature cooks with the plate setter feet down. One thing: I worked my bands to get the lower band down all the way and the top band up all the way. My seal is excellent all around. On the dollar bill test; I pull a piece of paper FIRMLY all around (or even rip it). I get ZERO smoke around the gasket. So I think many of the gasket failures are due to a gap that causes air to leak across.

    As I said, I just don’t know. So I’m looking for a reason why a new gasket applied with Super 77 would fail so quickly. :huh:
  • high heat with a platesetter legs down means the flat surface of the platesetter directs all the heat directly at the gasket in a bit of turbulence before it finds its way up the walls of the dome.

    with the legs up, the flat surface of the platesetter is below the gasket, and the heat flow is is more laminar along the walls of the dome, up and out.

    at least that's the hypothesis.
  • BENTEBENTE Posts: 8,337
    don't worry stike it is just another oppertunity for Salguod to "complain" more about the gasket...


    i guess he is not used to getting these gasket questions again.....and again... without complaining!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    although he is not out that much $$$ he is just trying to get his money's worth by making others feel sorry for him and his loss!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    happy eggin

    TB

    Anderson S.C.

    "Life is too short to be diplomatic. A man's friends shouldn't mind what he does or says- and those who are not his friends, well, the hell with them. They don't count."

    Tyrus Raymond Cobb

  • SalguodSalguod Posts: 130
    Another important question I forgot to ask is this: Did the gasket that you installed have the adhesive tape already on it (in addition to the Super 77 that you put on)? This has been responsible for other failures when the Super 77 held, but the peel and stick adhesive failed.

    BENTE, I have said several times before, I’m an egg supporter and I’m just trying to get to the bottom of this gasket problem. Hopefully BGE can fix it and we can all get back to egging, but we need to know what the problem exactly is. Maybe it is even already fixed! But if it is, then we need to understand any continued failures. So for the millionth time, my gasket (nomex and Super 77) is working and holding up nicely now and I’m happy. I’m sorry if I am not one of the Kool-Aid drinkers who won’t tolerate any criticism (even constructive criticism) of the sacred egg. Woe be it to the unbelievers! Honestly, I don’t see your attitude as being helpful to anybody.
  • GrillerGriller Posts: 87
    Sal -

    I installed the Nomex gasket on a clear day (70F) with the 3M Super 77 glue. I took the top of the egg off so that I could ensure I could get a solid seal that would pass the dollar bill test (and it did). During the 12Hr slow-n-low there was plenty of smoke that passed through the egg, none of which through the seal. :) As far as application I put the glue on no more than 3" at a time and used a roller to apply adequate and even pressure on the gasket. The installation of the gasket was clockwise however the roller movement went counter-clockwise to prevent stretching.

    I'll say again, the nomex gasket did not fail this time around. The edges were scorched by about the width of a pencil lead but that is it. There was one section that did get scorched but it was because the gasket shifted after I closed the egg lid after observing the glue smoldering around the bottom and top rims on the egg.

    The bottom air intake was wide open with no top on the egg. So far, I'm convinced the failure was caused by the legs down on the plate setter that directed the direct heat toward the rims of the egg causing the glue to burn. I have placed an order for the 5/8" Rutland gasket with high heat epoxy in hopes I, too, can live happily egger-after.
  • BENTEBENTE Posts: 8,337
    if it is so important to you to "get to the bottom" of the issue why don't you just follow the directions in this thread
    http://www.eggheadforum.com/index.php?option=com_simpleboard&func=view&id=599078&catid=1

    he will give you all the answers you want about the gasket!!

    then maybe you will find the answers which you seek.. they you can go back to eggin..

    happy eggin

    TB

    Anderson S.C.

    "Life is too short to be diplomatic. A man's friends shouldn't mind what he does or says- and those who are not his friends, well, the hell with them. They don't count."

    Tyrus Raymond Cobb

  • SalguodSalguod Posts: 130
    Griller, I don’t blame you for going with the Rutland gasket and high heat epoxy. I hope it works for you. But this will never be an “official” solution for BGE because the Rutland gasket (and probably the epoxy as well) is not certified for use near food. I understand that the Rutland contains asbestos, so that is probably a “non-starter” as far as the FDA goes. The Cotronics gasket isn’t certified for food use either, although it probably could be if someone was willing to pay for the testing and certification. But the nomex seems to work well (you said that the nomex itself held up fine). Now if we can just get it to stick! So I’m disappointed that the nomex and Super 77 didn’t work for you. The plate setter could be part of the problem, and it is prudent to use it legs up only. But I used it feet down several times before I knew better, and my nomex gasket with Super 77 is fine.

    The only thing that you did “different” was to use a roller to put on the Super 77. I’m not saying that was wrong, but it was different. A few people have used a paint brush to paint the Super 77 on, but you are the first to use a roller (as far as I know). Since the vast majority of people just spray the Super 77 on; we don’t really have a “failure rate” for other methods of applying the Super 77. Since most people have had success with the nomex and Super 77 method, it is something that you should consider. Again, I don’t mean to criticize, it sounds like you did a careful job that should have held and I’m sorry that it did not. Just saying…

    I think that if I had to do it again, I would spray Super 77 on both the egg AND the gasket. You are supposed to get better adhesion that way. Of course, handling a sticky gasket and putting it on a sticky egg would be a little awkward. I think that it would have to be a two person job. But I’m sure that someone on this forum will develop a rotating retracting clothesline or something so that it can still be done by one person. That’s what is great about this forum. :laugh:

    BENTE, griller and I both followed the directions in that thread. My gasket is fine, but his failed. So that is why we are still discussing this. We didn’t do the little cuts, but I don’t think that makes a big difference. My gasket sits absolutely flat after it shrunk during the first few cooks. I still think it is important to figure out why gaskets fail so that we can get them to work for everybody. I hope that this discussion doesn’t unduly inconvenience you.
  • BENTEBENTE Posts: 8,337
    so since you followed the directions what did john with Reserch and Development at big green egg tell you???

    did you ask him all these questions that you keep telling all of us here and what was his response???

    happy eggin

    TB

    Anderson S.C.

    "Life is too short to be diplomatic. A man's friends shouldn't mind what he does or says- and those who are not his friends, well, the hell with them. They don't count."

    Tyrus Raymond Cobb

  • GrillerGriller Posts: 87
    One point of clarification...

    I sprayed the 3M Super 77 on to the surface of the egg and then put the gasket down. The roller was a suggestion made by one of the posts I read to apply even pressure on the gasket in a counter-clockwise rotation to prevent stretching that could cause the gasket to shift during high heat.

    I was surprised to learn the Rutland contains asbestos and will need to research further. :blink: Even though it is on order I think I'm back to square one. :( Until I sort it out I'll just go without a gasket.
  • SalguodSalguod Posts: 130
    Griller, I don’t see how your use of the roller AFTER spraying on the Super 77 and properly laying the gasket could have caused the adhesive to fail. So I am completely out of theories. It sounds like you did everything right. It doesn’t sound fair. Sorry! :S Since the nomex gasket itself held up, I guess I would get another nomex gasket and try another method of gluing it on. I suggest Super 77 on both the egg and the gasket. I couldn’t blame you if you wanted to try different glue, though. Good luck with whatever you try, and let us know how it turns out.

    When I do pizzas now, I go plate setter legs up, then grill, then green feet, then pizza stone. (The green feet are not doing anything other than raising the stone another half inch). I think that using the plate setter feet up is a more “gasket friendly configuration”. That said; I got away with several high temp cooks with the plate setter feet down, so I don’t know. Again, best of luck and I hope that you are back egging soon! ;)
  • RRPRRP Posts: 12,047
    Rutland does NOT contain asbestos - it is made of spun fiberglass like the insulation in your home, but not asbestos. BTW there are a number of Rutland users here.

  • the 77 goes on both the rim and the gasket for the best fit.

    there is no asbestos in a rutland gasket. whoever told you that doesn't know what they are talking about. it's fiberglass.

    the issue, though, is that BGE and rutland don't recommend its use because the fibers can (in theory) break and get either airborne or into your food. lot of other things about cooking with charcoal that will kill you first, but that's what the lawyers are telling us.

    i have a rutland with auto gasket adhesive.
  • SalguodSalguod Posts: 130
    Griller, I’m sorry about the misinformation on the Rutland gasket; my bad. Someone posted about “asbestos like” fiberglass fibers, and I misremembered that. Again my bad; I must be getting senile. The Rutland isn’t certified for use around food, but it is nowhere near as bad as I made it sound. We routinely find pieces of fiberglass insulation in charcoal, so it is probably nothing that terrible. Your call on using it; several people do and none of them have died so far as I know. :P
  • RRPRRP Posts: 12,047
    Thanks- you're a big man to step forward and admit that. It's a shame that some who have much-o to gain and cover their asses don't do so. Good night.

  • I have had 7 gasket failures and couldn't afford another. I didn't know BGE had great customer service, I just love the egg. My solution was a fiberglass fireplace gasket (rutland is one of the brands) and I put it on the bottom only with high heat RTF adhesive (I think Permatex has a product like this at automotive stores for exhaust manifold gasket seal) RTF's are a room temperature curing high heat silicone Adhesive that remain pliable after setting and are chemically inert and user friendly.

    This has made my eggstravigant purchase eggciting and dependable. after I had used this gasket a while I put a little vegetable oil on the gasket which appears to act as a glue to hold the gasket material in a homogenous band around the egg (no loose fibers to come off)

    I hope this helps !

    ShakeyPM

    P.S. I use this silly egg (that I hated at first) at least 180 days a year and considering i work away from the house 120 days a year. I think thats a lot!
  • SalguodSalguod Posts: 130
    Shakeypm, fair enough; I’m glad that you found a solution that works for you and that you are doing some “happy egging”! The veggie oil sounds like a good idea for the Rutland gasket. I have a question though; were those 7 failures all with the felt gasket, or were some of the failures with nomex or something else? Was this in the “pre-nomex days”? B)
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