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Pizza with high gluten flour, residual heat bread

mkcmkc Posts: 540
edited 11:01PM in EggHead Forum
Yet another pizza experiment last night. This one was NY Style (as always), with a 2 day cold ferment dough made with All Trumps high gluten flour (unbleached).

Topped with Grande East Coast blend cheese (half part-skim, half whole milk mozzarella), Ezzo pepperoni.

Flour, cheese, and pepperoni were from PennMac. This one definitely resembled the pizza we grew up with. The underside was crisp, the texture chewy, very thin and very "floppy". The cheese especially tasted exactly like we remember of the pizza from our "yout' "

The Pizza


True NY Style!


And after the pizza came off, I put a loaf of Artisan Bread in 5 semolina bread on, shut down the Egg, and let the residual heat do my baking.

The Bread

Egging in Denton, Texas


  • FidelFidel Posts: 10,172
    Looks very good. I have dough fermenting now for tonight as well.

    How does that flour compare to the King Arthur Sir Lancelot (if you have used that brand)?

    I love the Ezzo pepperoni.
  • mkcmkc Posts: 540

    I only used Sir Lancelot once, and that was years ago for bagels and they were very, very good. I'd like to, I just balked at the price.

    I had tried a couple of pies, same recipe as I used last night except I added vital gluten to GM Better for Bread flour to try to approximate the gluten/protein of Sir Lancelot/All Trumps. The result was very tasty, especially a 3 day ferment (I'm using Flagpull's recipe from "tonight I dine with Sir Lancelot" in the NY style topic). We thought it was one of my better efforts.

    Then recently I saw that a couple of the folks on were using this All Trumps unbleached (which is a high gluten flour, milled with malted barley like the Sir Lancelot) and a few had done side by side comparisons with KASL - they seemed equally divided on which was better.

    PennMac recently started selling the repackaged All Trumps unbleached/unbrominated so you can now buy just 5 lbs at a time (instead of having to deal with a 50 lb sack). The trigger for me is that delivered it was less than half the cost of King Arthur even when KA had free shipping. (I do promise to try SL as soon as they have another big sale and free shipping.)

    The dough last night had a noticeably different (better) texture/extensibility. Excellent windowpaning and I could stretch it very, VERY thin with almost no effort and no tearing. It was only a 2 day ferment, so I can't really comment on flavor comparison - that will be this coming Friday (there was a significant improvement going from 2 to 3 days in the above bread/gluten version of the Flagpull dough so I need to repeat it with the AT).

    And then there's the little bag of Caputo 00 I need to expermiment with..... it will be my first neapolitan....

    So many pizzas, so few Fridays...
    Egging in Denton, Texas
  • egger66egger66 Posts: 385
    Your pizza looks great. I'm wanting to do a pizza on the egg and that type crust is what I'm trying to make. What was the recipe for your dough? Is it hard to do for a newbie pizza maker?
  • FidelFidel Posts: 10,172
    Thanks for the terrific response.

    A fried of mine is hopefully still planning to meet me in Ocala next month with 5 pounds of red hard spring wheat. I'm not sure what brand it is, but I figure that with a little diastatic malt and some vital gluten will make the mother of all pies.

    I am much like you, I love to experiment with pizza dough and sauce combinations - always in search of that master creation.
  • GrumpsGrumps Posts: 182
    The pizza and bread look great! Great pictures, too. Isn't it great to re-create something from your past? Thanks for sharing your incredible food and pictures.
  • mkcmkc Posts: 540
    egger66 wrote:
    What was the recipe for your dough? Is it hard to do for a newbie pizza maker?


    The recipe is extremely easy, as long as you have a digital scale with accuracy in grams...

    Courtesy of Flagpull and Pete-zaa on the board (with a little JerryMac technique thrown in):

    For a 14" diameter pizza, 2-3 days before you want to make the pie

    In a Kitchenaid stand mixer bowl, combine the following:

    1/4 teaspoon instant yeast (add about 20% extra if using active dry instead of instant yeast)

    170 grams lukewarm water

    Add 258 grams of high gluten flour like King Arthur Sir Lancelot or All Trumps unbleached


    add 1 Tablespoon vital wheat gluten and make up the difference with bread flour so the gluten plus the flour equals 258 grams

    Add 1 1/2 teaspoons Morton's Kosher Salt

    With mixer on the lowest speed, stir for about 2 minutes until the loose flour is incorporated. Increase mixer speed to 2 and knead for 4 minutes.

    Put dough in a lightly oiled bowl, flip to oil other side and cover with plastic wrap (I just spray the doughball and the KA bowl with oil and put the whole thing in the fridge - no need to dirty a second container). Refrigerate for 2-3 days. Take out of fridge 2 hours before you want to form the pizza (about 2 1/2 hours before you want to bake).

    Pat out then stretch (DO NOT USE A ROLLING PIN) to form your pizza skin.

    I use semolina-dusted parchment or a silicone pizza mat to transfer the pizza to the preheated stone. I put the parchment/mat on a rimless cookie sheet that I use as my peel. If using the silicone mat, about 2 minutes into the cook I use the peel to lift the pizza up and pull the mat out using tongs. You probably don't need to do this if you're using parchment.
    Egging in Denton, Texas
  • egger66egger66 Posts: 385
    Thanks for all of your help....I need all I can get!!
  • ZippylipZippylip Posts: 4,674
    Michelle, that pie is exquisite; the colors, just beautiful, wishing I was in your kitchen when that was cut
    happy in the hut
    West Chester Pennsylvania
  • mkc,

    What is your setup (temp, platesetter, ect.) with this dough?

    I seem to have issues getting the top nice and done without burnng the bottom with the doughs I have tried.

  • mkcmkc Posts: 540
    smalljaws wrote:

    What is your setup (temp, platesetter, ect.) with this dough?

    I seem to have issues getting the top nice and done without burning the bottom with the doughs I have tried.


    Platesetter legs down, grid, BGE pizza stone. All preheated to 450-475. I start the pizza on the semolina-dusted SiliconeZone pizza mat, then pull the mat out after a couple of minutes (once the dough "sets"). I happen to like using the mat because it's exactly the size of the BGE pizza stone for the large (14") so I can maximize my pizza area and have a really round guide to do my final shaping on.

    This (and others I make) are very thin pizzas (if you add up the weight of the dough ingredients, it's less than a pound).

    I use about 6 ounces of tomato sauce (less than half a 15 ounce can) and 8 ounces mozzarella for a 14 inch pizza.

    I have seen significant differences in cheeses and how they melt/brown - that might give you the perception that the top isn't done as quickly as you'd like. I have had the most success with Polly-O, Il Villagio Gourmet Mozzarella, and this Grande brand. I have a lot of difficulty getting fresh mozzarella to color the way we like, especially homemade which remains white and gets a fluffy texture.

    I love talking pizza!
    Egging in Denton, Texas
  • mkcmkc Posts: 540
    Thanks, Zippy! That's a high compliment coming from one of the Egg pizza/Italian food gurus!

    I'm looking forward to the flavor of a 3 day ferment on that dough recipe...
    Egging in Denton, Texas
  • FidelFidel Posts: 10,172
    Hey Michelle - have you tried mozzarella sliced from the deli counter?

    It is much drier than regular fresh mozz and it melts/browns very nicely and has a little deeper flavor than the bagged pre-shredded stuff.
  • mkcmkc Posts: 540
    Fidel wrote:
    Hey Michelle - have you tried mozzarella sliced from the deli counter?

    Not for NY Style but I have for Chicago style. Not sure why I differentiate...... Any particular brand you favor? We can get a few brands here, definitely Boar's Head and Land o' Lakes plus store brand.

    Right now, I have 9 more pizzas' worth of Grande to go through before I am permitted to buy more cheese... between pizza and Egg smoked bricks, we are a bit overrun with the food that binds....

    BTW, it might be sacrilege on the pizzamaking board, but for sauce I've found plain old S&W organic tomato sauce from Costco works great. I do a dough dressing of a few minced garlic cloves, crushed red pepper flakes, Penzey's pizza seasoning, and fresh ground pepper that I drizzle with about 2 teaspoons olive oil (just enough to moisten) and heat just to infuse the garlic a bit (20 seconds in the microwave) and smear this on the formed pizza skin with my hands, then top with a little less than half the can of the S&W. Now of course I don't have easy access to 6-in-1's or Stanislaus tomato products and I can't bring myself to pay $5.49 for a 28 ounce can of Cento D.O.P. San Marzanos....
    Egging in Denton, Texas
  • FidelFidel Posts: 10,172
    I use boar's head or kroger private selection for the cheese.

    For sauce I use diced tomatoes, tomato paste, garlic, onion, basil, oregano, fennel seed, salt, black pepper, and red pepper flakes. I cook it for a few hours and take the stick blender to it. I make big batches and freeze it in one cup servings. It works very well for me.
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