Thanks for the Help with the Boston Butt -- Best 4th of July BBQ EVER! (very long)

bbqman

I would like to take the opportunity to thank everyone on this board who have helped me become an "eggspert" cook. The pulled pork I did yesterday was the best bbq I have ever tasted. Thanks again.[p]Also I wanted to post an excerpt from email I recently got regarding the 4th of July. I think sometimes we loose track of what holidays really signify. I hope this message doesn't offend any one:[p]WHAT HAPPENED TO THEM?
Have you ever wondered what happened to the 56 men who signed the
Declaration of Independence? Five signers were captured by the British as
traitors and tortured before they died. Twelve had their homes ransacked and
burned. Two lost their sons serving in the Revolutionary Army, another had
two sons captured. Nine of the 56 fought and died from wounds or hardships of
the Revolutionary War.
They signed and they pledged their lives, their fortunes, and their sacred
honor. What kind of men were they?
Twenty-four were lawyers and jurists. Eleven were merchants, nine were
farmers and large plantation owners; men of means, well educated. But they
signed the Declaration of Independence knowing full well that the penalty
would be death if they were captured.
Carter Braxton of Virginia, a wealthy planter and trader, saw his ships
swept from the seas by the British Navy. He sold his home and properties to
pay his debts, and died in rags.
Thomas McKeam was so hounded by the British that he was forced to move his
family almost constantly. He served in the Congress without pay, and his
family was kept in hiding. His possessions were taken from him, and poverty
was his reward.
Vandals or soldiers looted the properties of Dillery, Hall, Clymer, Walton,
Gwinnett, Heyward, Ruttledge, and Middleton.
At the battle of Yorktown, Thomas Nelson, Jr., noted that the British
General Cornwallis had taken over the Nelson home for his headquarters. He
quietly urged General George Washington to open fire. The home was destroyed,
and Nelson died bankrupt.
Francis Lewis had his home and properties destroyed. The enemy jailed his
wife, and she died within a few months.
John Hart was driven from his wife's bedside as she was dying. Their 13
children fled for their lives. His fields and his gristmill were laid to
waste. For more than a year, he lived in forests and caves, returning home to
find his wife dead and his children vanished. A few weeks later, he died from
exhaustion and a broken heart. Norris and Livingston suffered similar fates.
Such were the stories and sacrifices of the American Revolution. These
were not wild-eyed, rabble-rousing ruffians. They were soft-spoken men of
means and education. They had security, but they valued liberty more.
Standing tall and straight, and unwavering, they pledged: "For the support of
this declaration, with firm reliance on the protection of the divine
providence, we mutually pledge to each other, our lives, our fortunes, and
our sacred honor."
They gave you and me a free and independent America. The history books
never told you a lot about what happened in the Revolutionary War. We didn't
fight just the British. We were British subjects at that time and we fought
our own government! Some of us take these liberties so much for granted,
but we shouldn't. So, take a few minutes while enjoying your 4th of July
holiday and silently thank these patriots. It's not much to ask for the price
they paid. Remember: Freedom is never free! I hope you will show your
support by please sending this to as many people as you can. It's time we get
the word out that patriotism is NOT a sin, and the Fourth of July has more to
it than beer, picnics, and baseball games.
.

Char-Woody

bbqman, If you can, please repost this one next year, and the year after that, till this forum no longer exists.
Thanks..C~W
(And when this forum dies, post it where you can)

MAC

bbqman,
This is a shortend version of a speech writen by Rush Limbaugh's dad. Good Work Dad. Thanks for sharing it.

char buddy

bbqman,[p]BBQman I would be careful with that story. Here is a reply someone made at another site (with minor edits from me.)[p]Date: Mon, 03 Jul 2000 12:58:48 -0500
From: Charlie Laskonis <LASKONIS@XTA.COM>
Subject: [PublicLabor] Re: Declaration...
Subject: [OHMEIGS] Declaration of Independence[p]
Subject: Challenging Interpretation: Re - Colonial History[p]
And then there is this...[p][p]> This piece of propaganda has been floating around the internet for some time...and, unfortunately, has made it to some important websites.[p]> I am sorry to say, the historical research is flawed. Here is a response that I sent to the Northeast Roots group when someone else sent it to the northeast roots group some time ago. I am posting publicly so others may read, comment on, and correct any errors I might have made in my own research.
> Brooke
> > >
> On at least one website, Gary Hildreth, of Erie PA, is listed as the author of "The Price they Paid".
> > >
> > > Here is what I have been able to find based on a few hours in my university's limited library and the book, "The Signers of the Declaration of Independence", by Robert G. Ferris and Richard E. Morris of the U.S. National Park Service (Arlington, VA: Interpretive Publications, Inc., 1982).
> > >
> > > NO SIGNER WAS KILLED OUTRIGHT BY THE BRITISH.
> > > Lets examine some of the statements more closely.
> > >
> > > >"Five signers were captured by the British as traitors and tortured
> > before they died."
> > >
> > > This passage, to me at least, implies that the signer were captured
> > > under charges of treason and died under torture.
> > >
> > > Five signers were indeed captured by the British, but not necessarily as traitors.
> > >
> > > Richard Stockton (NJ) was the only one who was probably captured and imprisoned just for having signed the Declaration of Independence.
> > > Ferris and Morris also note that he was not well treated in
> captivity and was in ill health when released. He never completely recovered.
> He did not die in prison, however.
> > >
> > > George Walton (GA) commanded militia at the Battle of Savannah in December, 1778. He was wounded and captured at that time. Thus he would have been considered a prisoner of war, not a traitor. He was released within a year, which implies that his signature on the Declaration was not as important a factor in his captivity as his active military role in defending Savannah (prisoners of war were exchanged
on a regular basis, a traitor would have been hanged). Walton lived to serve as Governor of Georgia and U.S. Senator, dying in 1804.
> > >
> > > Thomas Heyward, Jr., Arthur Middleton, and Edward Rutledge (SC) were
> all captured at the Siege of Charleston in 1780. They were held at St.
> > > Augustine (then under British control) until September 1781 with
> other Continentals.
> > >
> > > Two months after his release, Arthur Middleton returned to Philadelphia to resume his seat in the Continental Congress. Despite the destruction of his estate, he was able to rebuild it and live there until his death in 1787.[p]> > > Edward Rutledge sat in the State Legislature from 1782 to 1798. He was elected Governor of South Carolina but died before completing his term...in 1800. Ferris and Morris report that he died a very wealthy man.
> > >
> > > Thomas Heyward, Jr. served as a circuit court judge from 1782 to 1787. He served as a state legislator at the same time. Heyward lived well into the 19th century, dying in 1809.
> > >
> > > I checked about 8 general histories of the American War for Independence and one or two specialized works on the southern campaigns. None of them even mentioned that signers had been captured at Charleston or Savannah, let alone mention that any were singled out for harsh treatment.
> This seems to indicate that their capture was part of the "normal" course of war, not a special effort.
> > >
> > > After the British took Charleston, Gen. Sir Henry Clinton had men of military age left in the city rounded up. Most were released soon after, including most of the militia troops. He had originally allowed the officers to keep their swords, but changed his mind when they began to shout rebel slogans. Only the Contintental troops were held for any length of time (Middlekauff, The Glorious Revolution)
> > >
> > > I found only one reference to the treatment of prisoners from the southern campaigns, in Lynn Montross, "Rag, Tag, and Bobtail". This work states that the continental troops from the siege of Charleston were held on prison ships. Conditions were poor and about a third of the prisoners died.
> > >
> > > If one takes the word "torture" to mean pain and suffering, then I suppose these men were tortured. To my mind, however, torture implies an intentional infliction on pain, usually either to extract information or to punish. I have found no evidence of the latter.
> > >
> > > Here is an interesting passage from Larry G. Bowman, North Texas St.Univ., on Prisoners of war:
> > > "Prisoners of war did suffer during the American Revolution. No other conclusion can be reached regarding the welfare of captives on both sides. Men were beaten, deprived of food by corrupt officials, denied bedding and clothing, and harassed in other ways but, fortunately, such incidents of outright cruelty were not routine events. Actually, most
of the suffering of the men came from the more subtle torment usually brought on by neglect on the part of their captors. Neither the American nor the British authorities sought to induce suffering among the men in their prisons, yet men did want for basic services. The shortcomings on both sides of the conflict in providing for the captives was evident, but the motivations behind the failures were not evil or vindictive in their origination. Neither party entered a program of deliberately tormenting prisoners." Encyclopedia of the American
> > > Revolution, v. II, p. 1334 (New York: Garland Publishing, 1993).
> > >
> > > >So, when Hildreth writes, "But they signed the Declaration of Independence, knowing full well that the penalty would be death if they were >captured."
> > >
The British undoubtedly put a price on the heads of rebel political officials (not just signers) and the signers no doubt feared that the British would make good on the threat. The reality is, however, that none were executed for their treason.
> > >
> > > Let's look at another assertion....
> > >
>Nine of the fifty-six fought and died from wounds or the hardship of the Revolutionary War.
> > >
> > > On my list two were wounded in action, but NONE DIED OF WOUNDS. My count shows 17--not 9--men who held commissions (or did medical duty) during the war. With the possible exception of Thomas Lynch, Jr.and Gwinnett, I would not say that any death here was attributable to the war with the British. Gwinnett's death, though, is hardly glorious:
> > >
> > > 1. Josiah Bartlett (NH) as surgeon with Gen. John Stark's troops at Bennington. Bartlett declined national offices (citing fatigue or ill health) but remained active in state affairs and died in 1794.
> > >
> > > 2. Button Gwinnett (GA) in a failed campaign to take St. Augustine. Killed in a duel precipitated partly by an argument over military strategy in 1777.
> > >
> > > 2a. George Clymer served with the Pennsylvania militia. Died in 1813.
> > >
> > > 3. Thomas Heyward, Jr. (SC). Wounded in 1779 near Port Royal Island, SC. Recovered and served in the siege of Charleston. Died 1809.
> > >
> > > 4. Thomas Lynch, Jr. (SC) Military career cut short by illness in 1775. He then was elected to the Continental Congress. In an attempt to restore his health, he left for the West Indies, but was shipwrecked and killed in 1779.
> > >
> > > 5. Arthur Middleton (SC) Captured at the siege of Charleston. See above.
> > >
> > > 6. Lewis Morris (NY) Brigadier General of Westchester Co. troops during the NY invasion. After the war, he served in state government and was active in public affairs. Died 1798.
> > >
> > > 7. Thomas Nelson, Jr. (VA) commanded the Virginia militia. Served in several campaigns in Virginia, including Yorktown. Nelson's retirement from public life was financially motivated. He died in 1789.
> > >
> > > 8. William Paca (MD) Served in the Maryland militia. After the war, he was active in MD. affairs and served as a Federal district judge after the Constitution was ratified. Died in 1799.
> > >
> > > 9. Caesar Rodney (DE). Brigadier General of militia. Active in campaigns against Loyalists in Delaware. Despite having advanced skin cancer, Rodney served as president of Delaware, and speaker of the state senate until his death in 1783.
> > >
> > > 10. Benjamin Rush (PA). Appointed surgeon general of the Middle Department of the Continental Army. Resigned after 8 months in a dispute over charges he made that the medical corps was not run properly. Extremely active in public affairs, both medical and governmental, Rush died in 1813.
> > >
> > > 11. Edward Rutledge (SC) Served at the battle of Port Royal Island (1779). Captured at the siege of Charleston. See above.
> > >
> > > 12. James Smith (PA) Brigadier General of militia. Practiced law until he retired at age 82 in 1801. He died in 1806.
> > >
> > > 13. George Walton (GA) Colonel of militia. Wounded at the Battle of Savannah, 1778. Died in 1804.
> > >
> > > 14. William Whipple (NH). Brigadier General of militia. Saw quite a bit of active service, including the Saratoga and Newport campaigns. Died, aged 55, in 1785.
> > >
> > > 15. William Williams (CT). Colonel of militia to 1776. Mostly active in state affairs, he died in 1811.
> > >
> > > 16. Oliver Wolcott (CT). Rose to Major General of militia. Wolcott served in the Saratoga campaign and the defense of Ct. against loyalist raids from NY. Lived to attend the Constitutional Convention and to serve as Governor of Ct. Died 1797.
> > >
> > > Some, like John Hart or Thomas Nelson, died of fatigue or exhaustion brought on by travel and active service. In that sense, the war may indeed have shortened their lives.
>
> > >
> > > Now....Let's look at some of the personal stories told....
> > >
> > > >Carter Braxton of Virginia, wealthy planter and trader, saw his ships swept from the sea by the British navy. He sold his home andproperties to pay his debts, and died in rags.
> > >
> > > Ferris and Morris tell a similar story, but watch the twist:
> > > "The War for Independence brought financial hardships to Braxton. At its
beginning, he had invested heavily in shipping, but the British captured most of his vessels and ravaged some of his plantations and extensive landholdings. COMMERCIAL SETBACKS IN LATER YEARS RUINED HIM." (p. 42).
> > >
>
> > >
> > > >Thomas McKeam was so hounded by the British that he was forced to move his family almost constantly. He served in Congress without pay, and his family was kept in hiding. His possessions were taken from him, and poverty was his reward.
> > >
> > > So far, this is correct. But Ferris and Morris state that McKean was able to rebuild his fortune" "McKean lived out his live quietly in Philadelphia. He died in 1817 at the age of 83, survived by his second wife and four of the 11 children from his marriages. He was buried in Laurel Hill Cemetery. HIS SUBSTANTIAL ESTATE CONSISTED OF STOCKS, BONDS, AND HUGE LAND TRACTS IN PENNSYLVANIA (p. 102).
> > >
> > > > British soldiers looted the properties of Ellery, Clymer, Hall, Walton, Gwinnett, Heyward, Ruttledge and Middleton.
> > >
> > > Also William Floyd (NY), John Hart (NC), William Hooper (NC), Philip Livingston (NY), Lewis Morris (NY).
> > >
> > > Oddly, enough, however, the British had the opportunity to loot the homes of several very prominent signers and did not do so. Although the British evacuated Boston before the signing, why didn't the British vandalize the homes of well-known rebels such as Sam Adams and John Hancock during their occupation of Boston?
> > >
> > > The British occupied Philadelphia through the winter of 1777, yet the homes of Benjamin Franklin (who surely must have been public enemy #1),
> > > James Wilson, Benjamin Rush, Robert Morris were not damaged. James Wilson's home was attacked by Americans, including militiamen, during food shortages in 1779.
> > >[p]> > > > Francis Lewis had his home and properties destroyed. The British jailed his wife, and soon after she died.
> > >
> > > This is true. Although Lewis lived until 1802 (and was 89 when he died), he essentially retired from public life after his wife's death.
> > >
> > > >John Hart was driven from his wife's bedside as she was dying.
> Their 13 children fled for their lives. His fields and his grist mill were laid waste. For more than a year he lived in forests and caves, returning home after the war to find his wife dead, his children vanished. A few weeks later he died from exhaustion and a broken heart.
> > >
> > > The story is essentially true, but Hart survived two years after his return from exile, not a few weeks.
> > >
> > > Morris and Livingston suffered similar fates
> > >
> > > Philip Livingston, a member of the extremely influential NY Livingston family, had several properties in New York and Brooklyn that were occupied by the British. He sold other properties to support the war effort before fleeing the British occupation of NY. He died, at the age of 62, in 1778.
> > >
> > > There were two signers of the Declaration surnamed Morris. LEWIS
> Morris of New York, had to flee his home, Morrisania, which was damaged in the British occupation. Ferris and Morris note that he was able to rebuild Morrisania.
> > >
> > > ROBERT Morris, of Pennsylvania may be even more intriguing. Generally recognized for his fundraising efforts during the war, he was later accused (though vindicated) by Thomas Paine of profiteering. As Superintendent of Finance (1781-1784) he was responsible for keeping the young country afloat financially. In 1789, he declined to serve as Secretary of the Treasury (Alexander Hamilton got the job), but served instead as a Senator from PA. Morris' own financial dealings were not as successful. He speculated on western lands on credit, lived extremely well, and embarked on an ambitious home building project. All of this led to personal bankruptcy and time in debtor's prison in 1798. His wife was granted a pension that sustained the family. Robert Morris died in 1806.
> > >
> > > So there you have it. A grain of truth in everything, but some broad wording that makes for a good story but an inaccurate portrayal of our founders.
> > > Brooke

Cornfed

char buddy,[p]Sounds like someone pissed in Brooke's cereal this morning...[p]Cornfed

Spin

char buddy,[p]Thank you, sir. Now if we could convince people that the bloodstains in the attic of the Handcock House are not blood. My wifes grandmother was born and raised in that home and the stains are from the apples stored there every year.[p]Spin

The Colonel

bbqman, I agree a whole bunch with CW. Post that beautiful piece each year same time same place. Correct or not it is a reminder of where we come from. If there are those who are offended or think it lacks political correctness took a wrong turn at the Statue of Liberty.
Yours in a very Patriotic egg--The Colonel

char buddy

The Colonel,[p]CW - I would vote against making this piece an annual event for the forum precisely because of what's happening now. If I wanted to talk politics, debate what's politically (or historically) correct, question the patriotism of others, etc I'd go to a different forum. [p]BTW the page art look great.

Char-Woody

char buddy, good research. Now that I was unintentionally duped by the first post, perhaps I should view this one with some scepticism also. But doggone it, I sure like to think most posts are factual till proven otherwise. Good step in the right direction.
I marvel at the insight and intelligence of all the signers of the Declaration of Independence regardless.
Cheers..C~W[p]

char buddy

Char-Woody,[p]That's a big roger from me about the Declaration's signers, CW. [p]Now I'm off to do a 7 lb boston butt for a bunch of folks for sunday. Question - I this is for a party on sunday, but I want to do the Butt tonight and finish on Saturday. Any tips on warming or re-heating when we take over to the party on Sunday.[p]