Sous Vide advice (OT)

CincyEgg

Someone gifted me an Anova Sous Vide machine a couple weeks ago and I finally got around to trying it.

I did some thighs and breasts and just put some different Dizzy Pig rubs on them like I would if I was grilling them on the egg like normal. After about an hour and 30 minutes cooking via Sous Vide, I seared it for a few minutes on the egg.

Both types of chicken did come out extremely juicy but the flavor left something to be desired compared to being on the grill for the entire cook.

Does anyone have any advice/experience with this method of cooking and how to boost the flavor? I wasn’t expecting it to taste exactly the same as chicken coming off the grill alone, but these were definitely lacking flavor. 

Im not planning on abandoning the egg for Sous Vide by any means, I just wanted to try out a new cooking method to see what would come from it.

JohnInCarolina

You mean smoke flavor, or just flavor in general?

CincyEgg

Just flavor in general. I knew I wouldn’t get much smoke flavor at all since it was on the egg for less than 5 minutes, I just thought with it cooking in a vacuum sealed bag with the rubs applied about 4 hours previous to the cook, that there would be more noticable flavor to the chicken

JohnInCarolina

CincyEgg said:

Just flavor in general. I knew I wouldn’t get much smoke flavor at all since it was on the egg for less than 5 minutes, I just thought with it cooking in a vacuum sealed bag with the rubs applied about 4 hours previous to the cook, that there would be more noticable flavor to the chicken

Just cook it in the sous vide longer and you will get the flavors in there.   I just did jerk chicken breasts this way last night, and the flavor was actually too much.  

blind99

I don't do chicken like that for the same reason. The only chicken sous vide I've done recently is for fried chicken and it's incredible. 

I do beef and pork chops a lot. When they come out of the bath they get dried off well, and go to the grill for a sear.

But chicken skin is way too wet to get crisp and plain chicken meat maybe gets a little brown for me at best. 

Meeeshigan22

I picked one up a few months ago and have had the same thoughts. Flavor was blah and really did not care for the texture of anything cooked. Chicken, pork, or beef.

Did an egg thing in mason jars that was decent but more trouble than it was worth.

Photo Egg

Rub a little Better Than Bouillon premium on your chicken before you add your rub. Then into the SV.
Comes in a smallish jar in many flavors.
My best results have come by first seasoning, grilling with smoke to get some crust and caramelization then into the SV with a little better than bouillon.
Grilling with some smoke, add BTB, and into the Food Saver bag and into the freezer also works. Just pull them out and into the SV for cooking anytime.
I still prefer most things cooked 100% on the grill.
SV has it's song points with leaner, tough cuts.
Many things cooked SV, although they may be cooked to perfection technically, lack the grilled flavor I prefer. 

gdenby

Hi, CincyEgg,

Cooking meats SV in a bag tends to concentrate flavors, but that is often after being the bath 20+ hours. Enough time for the flavors to migrate into the meat. Similar to an overnight marinade in the fridge. In the bath, they can't overcook until about 72 hours, from my experience. Its a hot marinade that still takes maybe a day

5 min is way to short for any smoke. And I'd suppose at many temps to short to get any maillard flavors.

blasting

Sous Vide is a weird deal.  Some love it, some are meh.  I bought because of all the discussion.  I didn't think I'd use it beyond heating leftovers.  Then for the last 6 months I've been using it for chops, chicken breasts, tri tip.  Now I'm expanding my skill set with posts like that of @Photo Egg.

Sous Vide doesn't do everything but there is always those who try and push limits (good for them).  I like mine a lot, and would never be without.

To your question on boosting flavor.  I've seen posts where it's been said that seasoning in the SV does nothing.  I say hogwash.  Season some chicken breasts with some yardbird - sous vide for a couple hours and seer.  There is plenty of flavor coming through.  I have yet to try the pre smoke method, but will be doing that today on a chuck roast and then into the tub for 48.

johnnyp

I don't consider myself an expert, but I do follow a Facebook group of SV oriented cooks whom I consider to be way above my level. 

This collaboration of chefs and home cooks say that nothing in the bag (sans salt) actually penetrates the meat.  Anything aside from salt, acts only as a surface treatment, which is detectable by smell only.

They recommend processing your protein as basic as possible, cold-shocking and re-therming for your desired cooking style as needed. 

I've included a link below.  I would recommend reading this guy's thoughts on the issue.

http://sousvideresources.com/2017/05/15/the-nose-rules-the-tongue-and-why-that-matters/

Photo Egg

blasting said:

Sous Vide is a weird deal.  Some love it, some are meh. 

Sous Vide doesn't do everything but there is always those who try and push limits (good for them).  I like mine a lot, and would never be without.

I think you address a great point. Effort, pushing the limits, is what makes a good meal great.
My take is SV alone was never intended or advertised to make food taste fantastic or better. It makes the food, well, taste natural and pure and it's more about precision temps to control the texture of the food.
For me, this goes against my reasoning for grilling and cooking with lump, wood and charcoal. The great char and caramelization flavor can not be had with SV alone. It does take effort to combine the two. And it's not the same for every cook. You have to find/produce the combination that you like with the amount of effort you are willing to put forth. 
I think I'm almost as good as most on this forum when it comes to heat control and setting up my Egg for my desired cook. But I'm totally lacking in the creativity department and pushing myself to cook something really great and over the top. There are many on this forum but I'm going to point out the local talent of @caliking  and @20stone and their group...They make me feel like a fry cook at Burger King. Ha Ha
Damn that was a ramble, sorry.

CincyEgg

Lots of good info in these replies, thanks everyone.

i was just going by the anova general guidelines for the recommended time and temps for the chicken.  I was worried that if I left it in the bath too long, that the chicken would change consistency and be too chewy. I’ll try leaving it in for an extra hour or 2 the next attempt and see if it helps the flavor at all and then try some of the other techniques that you all recommended. 

After hearing all the SV rave reviews, I just expected it to be a small learning curve but this is a different animal than the techniques that I’ve been getting used to with basic grilling and smoking.

CincyEgg

Photo Egg said:

blasting said:

Sous Vide is a weird deal.  Some love it, some are meh. 

Sous Vide doesn't do everything but there is always those who try and push limits (good for them).  I like mine a lot, and would never be without.

I think you address a great point. Effort, pushing the limits, is what makes a good meal great.
My take is SV alone was never intended or advertised to make food taste fantastic or better. It makes the food, well, taste natural and pure and it's more about precision temps to control the texture of the food.
For me, this goes against my reasoning for grilling and cooking with lump, wood and charcoal. The great char and caramelization flavor can not be had with SV alone. It does take effort to combine the two. And it's not the same for every cook. You have to find/produce the combination that you like with the amount of effort you are willing to put forth. 
I think I'm almost as good as most on this forum when it comes to heat control and setting up my Egg for my desired cook. But I'm totally lacking in the creativity department and pushing myself to cook something really great and over the top. There are many on this forum but I'm going to point out the local talent of @caliking  and @20stone and their group...They make me feel like a fry cook at Burger King. Ha Ha
Damn that was a ramble, sorry.

I agree with experimenting to make the best food for your taste. I’m looking forward to future cooks incorporating Sous Vide from time to time and seeing if I can make myself a better cook by using different methods. I still feel like I haven’t mastered the egg itself, so I have a ways to go in both respects. I always know if a cook doesn’t go the way I wanted it to, I can get on this forum and dig for info from experienced cooks who have dealt with some of the same issues.

20stone

Photo Egg said:
There are many on this forum but I'm going to point out the local talent of @caliking  and @20stone and their group...They make me feel like a fry cook at Burger King. Ha Ha

That is flattering, but you are just seeing a willingness to experiment combined with a competitive desire to overdo everything.

CincyEgg said:

Does anyone have any advice/experience with this method of cooking and how to boost the flavor? I wasn’t expecting it to taste exactly the same as chicken coming off the grill alone, but these were definitely lacking flavor. 

While you can do a bunch of different stuff with a SV, so far, I use the SV for the following:

• Awesome slow cooking of tough cuts (think - brisket, beef cheeks (for barbacoa), etc.) - If you look at my barbacoa threads, or @The Cen-Tex Smoker's pastrami, the SV plays a key role.  It is also possible that a number of @caliking's "BGE" recipes spend a few hours in the bath as well.  Normally, there is another cooking step (because there will never be Liquid Smoke used at Chez Jonz), but the rendering/tendering phase is done in the jacuzzi
• Awesome texture/temp control on delicate proteins (think - fish, chicken breasts, turkey breasts).  One other thing here is that you can cook high risk proteins (chicken) for an hour at 140F and all the bugs are dead, and the meat isn't dry and hammered, as it is when you go to 160F on the grill.
• Cool things with veggies - Best carrots ever, and other stuff, too. 
• Cheating on steaks - No improvement on a reverse sear here, but you can hit bumper-to-bumper mid-rare just dumping steaks in the Jacuzzi at 128F for an hour and then hit it with a blazing skillet or BGE for Senor Maillard
• Cool things with eggs - https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/going-out-gurus/post/this-thing-you-should-try-a-60-something-degree-egg/2012/11/12/50aa3b72-2ce2-11e2-a99d-5c4203af7b7a_blog.html?utm_term=.7ee615bc37a8Y

There are certainly more tricks to be done, but my efforts to date have fallen in those buckets.

You may note that chicken thighs don't fall into any of those, as you really can't improve on what you get with the meat and skin from proper roasting (unless you are frying it ;-))

I almost all cases, the food goes in the bag with a little fat (which can add to flavor), some salt (ditto) and whatever seasonings you are adding.

CincyEgg said:

  I was worried that if I left it in the bath too long, that the chicken would change consistency and be too chewy. I’ll try leaving it in for an extra hour or 2 the next attempt and see if it helps the flavor at all and then try some of the other techniques that you all recommended. 

Going back to the chicken breasts, I would keep trying on that, as it is one of the things that, done well, comes out way better.  You might search @The Cen-Tex Smoker out on that one.  That being said, I would recommend that you cook chicken breasts at the minimum amount of time at 145F it takes to kill the bugs (call it 2 hours), and then blast it in a hot skillet to get an outer sear.

Here is another great guide with pretty complete explanations:
http://www.seriouseats.com/2015/07/the-food-lab-complete-guide-to-sous-vide-chicken-breast.html

CincyEgg

Ok, I’ve officially bookmarked this thread to come back to as I keep experimenting.

the anova app guide is actually based on that link that you posted for Kenji’s SV recommendations. 

I’m going to take your advice and not worry about doing the thighs again and may try to get the chicken breast method down before moving on to something like brisket.

Canugghead

you got lots of good advice  ... one of my recent cooks: 
Boring outside round, SV naked (i.e. no seasoning whatsoever) 48 hrs @132, chilled, rubbed, smoked about 2-3 hrs in Traeger around 250-300F, FTC'd and sliced. Juice came mostly from resting, not slicing. Came out fork tender like brisket, long SV brings out intense beefy flavour. Love the new Concave cutting board, juice stays with the meat. Each slice was dipped in juice before serving.

CincyEgg

So in your opinion, is any flavor lost after chilling and re-heated via grill/smoker? That sounds like the way to go

Canugghead

IMO chilling allows meat to stay longer in smoker to pick up smoke and develop crust without overcooking, doesn't lose/add flavour. I even got decent smoke ring.

20stone

Canugghead said:

IMO chilling allows meat to stay longer in smoker to pick up smoke and develop crust without overcooking, doesn't lose/add flavour. I even got decent smoke ring.

It also allows you to SV some tonnage and then finish them (assuming chicken breasts or steaks) and then quickly pull them out of the fridge for a quick fire and eat. 

caliking

Some great resources have already been mentioned. Here's one that I found useful when I was starting out:

https://www.chefsteps.com/activities/sous-vide-time-and-temperature-guide

You can print it out and keep it handy in the kitchen. 

caliking

Thanks for the compliment @Photo Egg. But I'm not close to duplicating those lamb lollipops you crank out. Pretty sure I could pack away a whole rack of those  

caliking

SV is very handy for getting the tenderizing and rendering part of the job done , as @20stone mentioned. We've done brisket rendang and brisket nihari for eggfests, and the brisky was SV'ed for both of those cooks. Then egged for a few hours on site to pick up some smoke. Beef ribs have also turned out well when done similarly.

Skiddymarker

I'm in the SV naked camp for B&S chicken breast, just put it in the bag. Chill it and fridge it. When time to cook, make sure the surface is wet, low fire - 250ºF indirect, some cherry or pecan smoke. Lots of flavour. 
For chops and steaks, I no longer use the egg. Ci sear before the bath, CI sear after the sear.